Took a slowish cruise along the M25 today in not too much of a hurry to a non important business meeting, so this involved plodding along in lane one.
During my trip I was overtaken by countless HGV's who left it quite a long time before returning into my lane maybe because judging the distance between them and me is quite difficult? I dont know.. never driven a HGV.
So my question is simple to the truckers of the backroon, do you want us (in cars) to flash you in when it's safe to do so? or shall we leave it to your HGV colleagues only?
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I always do it (though not very often it occurs, even with the caravan on the back)` Usually get a flash of the indicators to acknowledge it also. I appreciate the "flash" when overtaking when I have the van on the back - judging exact distance is not always easy in convex mirrors and the sooner I can pull in the less I inconvenience others by remaining in overtaking lane at 60 -65. I always think it's a bit inconsiderate of car (and caravan) drivers to drive at under 60 thus causing truckers to overtake. (No offence, Stuart, but wouldn't you have been more comfortable at 60mph, thus keeping pace with the trucks so that you would not be "overtaken by countless HGV's "??)
Phil
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(No offence, Stuart,but wouldn't you have been more comfortable at 60mph, thus keeping pace with the trucks so that you would not be "overtaken by countless HGV's "??)
Well, yes i agree with you thinking about it.
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Me being a truckie, I always appreciate a flash of the lights to let me back in (always indicates left right to say thanks) as it helps me concentrate more on what is in front of me rather than trying to gauge if I have passed you enough to pull back in AND concentrate what is in front of me ( it's impossible to look out 2 windows at same time) When I look in the mirror as I pass you & get a flash, I know it is safe to pull in & can then look straight ahead of me safe in the knowledge my back end won't put you up the banking.
Every little bit helps keep our roads safer also shows courtesy ain't dead. IMO
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Me being a truckie, I always appreciate a flash of the lights to let me back in .....
I always do it, but I don't know how long I should hold the flash for. A quick flash and the truckie might not see it. What do you think, cumfray1?
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L\'escargot.
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>> Me being a truckie, I always appreciate a flash of the >> lights to let me back in ..... I always do it, but I don't know how long I should hold the flash for. A quick flash and the truckie might not see it. What do you think, cumfray1?
If you give 2 flashes of your lights (quick succession) the majority of us do catch at least one of them. Or like other trucks do hold your flash for 2 seconds (guaranteed 2 see them)
If only there were more like you on the road L'escargot.
A 2 second flash isn't too much to ask from fellow road users. Myself as a rule if I pass a car that hasn't flashed me back in, I stay in the middle lane a few seconds longer just to be safe. It might hold traffic behind me up, but it's a damn sight quicker than if I get it wrong especially in the rain.
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<< Orlike other trucks do hold your flash for 2 seconds
I'm doing it right then. That's what I started doing after I noticed trucks on the opposite carriageway holding the flash for a couple of seconds or so.
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L\'escargot.
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Agree with PhilW 100%
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Since taking the Rospa and IAM tests, I don't flash at all now unless I really do need to let other people know that I am there. If I am being overtaken by any vehicle and I expect them to return to Lane 1, I simply maintain my speed so that they can judge when to move over or ease off the gas to give the larger vehicle more room. I may also cover the brake in case they move in too early.
Flashing can be interpreted in many ways and I'd not want to be raked over the coals for contributing to an accident, especially one that involved a large truck.
Whilst I can see that truckers would find it helpful, I don't think that I'm prepared to do it. I'll stick to the Highway Code.
Cheers.
TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Flashing can be interpreted in many ways and I'd not want to be raked over the coals for contributing to an accident, especially one that involved a large truck.
Yep, I do understand your opinion TT, although when I'm being flashed by a vehicle in the inside lane I've just passed it is interpreted in one way, It is safe for me to pull in.
Would you yourself not find it easier to flash a truck back in safely & be in full control of the situation, rather than to rely on someone else's judgement in a 45ft 44tonne vehicle doing 56mph. I know which one I'd choose.
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I always flash to let a trucker know the trailer is past. It dont happen often mind as I dont normaly go that slow! It can only be interpreted one way.
I also try and block the free lane behind a truck thats doing sharp left or right turns, this to stop the dorks behind driving into the ever diminishing gap as the trailer cuts the corner.
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RF - currently 1 Renault short of a family
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I always flash to let a trucker know the trailer is past. It dont happen often mind as I dont normaly go that slow! It can only be interpreted one way. I also try and block the free lane behind a truck thats doing sharp left or right turns, this to stop the dorks behind driving into the ever diminishing gap as the trailer cuts the corner.
I'm NOT even gonna comment :-)
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Yup. One long flash circa two seconds.
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>>rather than to rely on someone else's judgement in a 45ft 44tonne vehicle doing 56mph.>>
It has never ceased to amaze me just how accurately 99 per cent of such truck drivers can judge the point where they are able to move back to the inside lane if an overtaken vehicle's driver doesn't flash to indicate it is safe to do so.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Since taking the Rospa and IAM tests, I don't flash at all now unless I really do need to let other people know that I am there. If I am being overtaken by any vehicle and I expect them to return to Lane 1, I simply maintain my speed so that they can judge when to move over or ease off the gas to give the larger vehicle more room. I may also cover the brake in case they move in too early.
I don't think I've ever read anything befroe that has put me off advanced training, but this certainly has.
Flashing can be interpreted in many ways and I'd not want to be raked over the coals for contributing to an accident, especially one that involved a large truck.
Of course it can be interpreted in many ways, but if a truck's just overtaken you then how else could it possibly be interpreted? The only signal that it is now safe for a truck to pull in. Baring in mind that a truck is 45ft long then its not easy to judge where the rear inside corner is. I've had enough problems with something 26ft long. The truck may only be doing 1 or 2 mph more than you. Its going to take a long time before he can be sure that he's passed you and if a flash saves blockign the middle lane for a while and there's no other interpretation of its meaning then its selfish not to.
Whilst I can see that truckers would find it helpful, I don't think that I'm prepared to do it. I'll stick to the Highway Code.
90: Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights in an attempt to intimidate other road users.
91: If another driver flashes his headlights never assume that it is a signal to go. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.
I think its perfectly reasonable to assume that paragraph 90 from the highway code above could be interpreted as letting the lorry driver know that you are there and at a safe distance behind him for him to pull in.
One thing often troubles me with any form of training is that some interpret it as the perfect way, the only way and that no variation should ever occur. It stops people from thinking that whilst most of the time the training is giving best current practice, there are always going to be occaisions when it doesn't apply.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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I've been giving a reasonable length of time headlights flash to HGV/coach and bus drivers/Transits etc for many years and it's rare that you don't get an acknowledgement.
I also do the same for other car drivers but it's surprising just how few either realise what you have done or express thanks with a wave of the hand; the ones that do are usually those making progess sensibly and safely.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Perhaps a trucker could comment - but is this a peculiarly British habit? It rarely seems to be done on the continent in my experience
Phil
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"if a truck's just overtaken you then how else could it possibly be interpreted?"
Of course there is the obvious interpretation that to most people, including me, that it is safe to pull back. However, it is not my business to second guess the interpretation of the recipient. I agree it's reasonable, but I am simply not prepared to be held accountable for someone trying to blame me for an incident that they then try and blame on me - "geezer in that Vectra flashed me that it was safe to pull in and hence I hit the [insert hazard of your choice]. A flash could mean, "pull in", "I am here don't pull in", "there is an animal about to run into the road" , "slow down there is a road safety camera", "you have just ran over a strip of metal and your tyre is about to blow", "your load is looking like it is about to fall off/out" etc etc.
I'm sorry if I suggested that I adopt the perfect way, that was never my intention, as that is not my belief. I am just trying to drive in a way that it is in accordance with the highway code and in a way that 2 ex police drivers consider to be safe and in accordance with the principles of Roadcraft. Of course it is your decision as to the merits of such training. Try it, you might find it useful.
Cheers.
TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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If you can give information to the HGV driver who has just overtaken you by flashing your headlights then you are assisting road safety. Using and giving information correctly is surely a vital part of safe driving.
Top turkey you seem to have taken your advanced learning too rigidly. RULES: for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools.
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Having also completed IAM recently I'm afraid I cannot agree TT.
IMO Roadcraft provides a framework model for driving, a safe set of guidelines to be followed. However it isn't a set of rules that have to be adhered to come what may.
I bet there's other stuff you were trained on which you don't adhere to rigidly. Cockpit drill? Every time? I know I don't.
Although I'm in broad agreement with you about flashing, I think in certain specific circumstances such as this then a little laxness helps everyone. Sticking blindly to Roadcraft gives advanced driving a bad name.
I think I might start a thread on this...
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Blimey TT, thousands of truckers use this signal millions of times a day (and it was certainly used in the 1960s as I remember) and I wonder how many have used the same signal to say "there is an animal about to run into the road" , "slow down there is a road safety camera", "you have just ran over a strip of metal and your tyre is about to blow", "your load is looking like it is about to fall off/out" etc etc."
Of course, the signal could also be interpreted as "oops, I meant to switch on the windscreen wipers but accidentally flashed that trucker in" but surely, a well known and well used signal is more likely to be helpful rather than a cause of accidents and appreciated by other road users as something that makes life easier for others (whether the overtaking trucker/caravanner/trailer tower/whitevanman or the guy following in the overtaking lane who would otherwise be held up).
Do you never signal to pedestrians that you will allow them to cross the road (at a junction say?) or open a door in front of a lady and wave her through? Do you stick absolutely rigidly to every other rule/law, never exceed the speed limit on motorways for instance? Do you still feed the steering wheel through your hands or do you occasionally "cross arms"?
Phil
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Phil - see new thread! :-)
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I'm glad so many cars do flash us in, It makes life alot easier. I also make a point of thanking them via a couple of goes on the indicators, and if they then overtake me I always make a point of putting my hand up to say thanks. Being polite costs neither time nor money.
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Always do it, when it is safe for the truck to move back in. but recently I see cars which cut me up, so once in my lane they get a flash to remind them I am there.
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I always adopt the two or three second flash, as that is unlikely to be caused by missing the wipers etc......
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As a fellow Class 1 man,I always appreciate being flashed in,much in the same way as described,by use of the indicators.
When you've a combination sat under your arse,thats 60 foot long,every little helps.
So thank you,car drivers.
Ken.
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