With the increase in fuel prices, are LPG conversions becoming more popular?
As some of you may know, I have a 3.4 (petrol) Landcruiser Colorado. Now in the interests of fuel costs alone it may not be worth my while to do a LPG conversion; With an annual mileage of around 10-12K and assuming I'm only going to keep the car for another 2 years or so, I might not recoup my initial outlay.
On the plus side, looking a few years down the line, it may be easier to sell on with a LPG conversion, it may even be the only way to sell a large petrol 4X4......which got me wondering whether it may be worthwhile after all.
I've done some sums over 2 years....
Current average consumption - 23mpg
(Est'd) LPG consumption - 18mpg
Mileage over next 2 years - 24000
(Est'd) avg cost of petrol - £1/l or £4.5/gallon
(Est'd) avg cost of LPG - £0.5/l or £2.25/gallon
Petrol costs - £4700 (approx)
LPG costs - £3000 (approx)
Ok, so the fuel cost saving works out at around £1700, now assuming that a decent LPG conversion is going to cost around £2K, I'd be out of pocket. Would I be able to make that back at sale? If however, I keep it longer than 2 years, I'd start to make money on the conversion.
Finally, probably the most important question, I currently have a good and reliable vehicle that I enjoy immensely, would I perhaps be jeopardising that by doing an LPG conversion? (Even with the most professional of installs, you sometimes still do hear of various issues).
Any thoughts welcome....
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You may not be aware of this, but you can't use the channel tunnel.
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According to a recent HJ note in the paper, dealers are offering lower part-ex values on LPG cars than on the base models.
Plus, my Brother in Law is having a devil of a job getting a part for his LPG converted Omega - he's driven 160 miles to date to try to get the right part, which affects his car starting (something to do with the switch to petrol for starting, so he can't even run it properly on petrol).
I reckon that if the cost case is clear it might make sense. As yours seems marginal by your own admission, it might be better avoided.
V
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Personally I've found that LPG vehicles still cause lots of concern and suspicion with potential buyers. People are not as prepared to take the risk as you might think. Mainly regarding the quality of the conversion and carrying a cylinder of explosive gas in the boot.
Whenever my ex-company tried to offload a converted car they got at least 500quid below the equivalent non-converted price. The best advice I could give you is get it done by a reputable company, put the tank in a convenient position (as much as possible) and factor losing 10% to 15% efficiency from the petrol side post conversion. You will need to use a tank of petrol to every third or fouth fill of LPG to keep everything lubricated.
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LPG converted Land Rovers and Range Rovers actually command a premium if it is a quality install.
The concerns about explosive gas are down to ignorance. Propane is stored as liquid, hence LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas). I take it you don't mind driving around with a tank full of explosive petrol vapour? Propane has a higher flashpoint than petrol vapour and in liquid form is very difficult to ignite. Furthermore it is stored in a certified pressure vessel not a plastic tank.
There is no loss of effieciency when running on petrol after conversion and why should there be?
Finnally, there is absolutely no need to run periodically on petrol. What exactly is the petrol lubricating? The engine has oil in it for this purpose.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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What exactly is the petrol lubricating? The engine has oil in it for this purpose.
In the days of leaded petrol, the lead content was used as a lubricant for the valve and valve seat.
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>>> What exactly is the petrol lubricating? The engine has oil in
>>> it for this purpose.
>
>In the days of leaded petrol, the lead content was used as a >lubricant for the valve and valve seat.
Which is why for old landrovers - and indeed anything else - you need to fit hardened valve seats before you do the LPG conversion. Easily solved... if not quite that cheaply.
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I accept that. But I don't think we are talking about converting vehicles that old. The Range Rover V8 has been able to run on unleaded for the last 20 years at least.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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I think most buyers of secondhand cars would think a LPG conversion as less desirable (hence much lower price) due to its complexity and unknown safety aspects. There is also the loss of some space in the vehicle, the professionalism of the fitting, the availablity of fuel, and the problem of having the system serviced (including parts).
Personally I would not touch a conversion with a barge pole. Perhaps it would be a good idea to save your money and not fit LPG.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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I have had a Range Rover 4.6 and Volvo S80 converted. Its great in principle but they never run as smoothly on lpg as petrol, the RR in particular was jerky due to cutting lpg on overrun to avoid backfires (Prins system). The Volvo had OMVL kit and this never ran brilliantly, cutting out at low speed - dangerous at roundabouts. And it was disabled by the battery being removed by the garage, I had to buy a usb interface and reconfigure it.
The lack of range means that you will be running on petrol sometimes increasing your payback period. Frequently garages run out of lpg, and you only notice after you have queued up for 10 mins. The pumps are always busy or in awkward places, at least with petrol you can fill up at any one of 8 pumps but you have to wait for someone to move out of the way before you can get to the lpg pump. Its best to have your filler mounted at the rear so you can access the pump on either side.
Having said that I was filling up (every day in the case of the Range Rover as I drive 100 miles a day what a pain!) at Corby where there is an independent who supplies to the public at 31.9p which has only recently risen from 29.9p. Seriously cheap. Expect rises in the price of lpg soon, in addition to the duty rise.
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LPG sounds like an exercise in futility from what I've read here!
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Thanks for the replies so far.....
My main consideration, rather than fuel cost savings, was that in a few years time when I may want to sell the vehicle, it prove difficult to sell a large petrol 4X4 - a (good) LPG conversion may become a selling point.
However from what I've read so far, maybe I'm best leaving it alone...
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LPG conversions are not complex Roger. I have fitted several. They are simpler than the petrol EFI systems fitted.
The fuel is widely available, so that is not an issue as is servicing as there are many installers. It is also very environmentally clean.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Drove as a passenger in an old Volvo 240 in Holland where they love LPG. Chap reckoned it had dome 300k kilometers on the same exhaust. Went very smoothly. Logic says that this fuel is the ideal fuel. It is strange that so many have problems. Friends big Audi was done, but always seemed to have small running problems.
3 questions arise.
1). Are LPG conversions, better suited to old carb, non computer controlled cars?
2). How do 'proper' factory built Vauxhalls/Volvos etc dual fuel cars fair?
3). Is LPG compatable with automatics?
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I would consider an LPG car, but only if it was LPG from the factory. I dont think its a great idae to get a car 'converted'.
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Vuaxhall have recently announced that they are no longer building factory converted LPG cars.
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There are a number of good and reliable after-market LPG systems out there. Properly installed, they should be reliable. LPG is very popular in Holland and Italy. It is pretty common in the UK on large petrol 4x4's and I would think that there is a good secondhand market for them.
In February I advertised an LPG converted Mercedes and had a lot of interest in it - it eventually sold to a guy who was specifically looking for an LPG-converted car.
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Although I have never considered buying an LPG car, I'd say that I'm even less likely to buy one as time goes by. Diesels clearly represent the interim future until something better comes along.
Nevertheless, I read in Car magazine that several manufacturers, including BMW, are investigating smaller(around 1 litre) supercharged petrol engines with very high bhp/litre. Presumably these engines would need to be very high revving to produce sufficient power to replace a much bigger straight six.
Looks like a technical dead end to me. Unless.....these little engines might work well in hybrids where the engine just drives a generator, because it can work at its optimum speed and doesn't need to deliver a lot of torque over a wide rev range. Hmmmm....!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Stupid question but are the "DualFuel" badges on Vauxhalls symbollic of a factory fit LPG system?
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Yes
Fullchat
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Are there any other mainstream manufacturer's alternatives? I don't want an LPG car I'm just curious.
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Stupid question but are the "DualFuel" badges on Vauxhalls symbollic of a factory fit LPG system?
Yes.........
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to give my 2 pennies worth!
I'm on my second lpg conversion.
first was an avensis where I did 70000 miles on lpg, no problems and saved a small fortune (33p a litre vs 80p for petrol) sold the car on ebay for £500 more than book value.
Im now running a lexus gs300 on lpg and the lpg is even better than the avensis. I have 2 tanks in the boot giving me a range of 550miles.
For what its worth it appears many people are quick to criticise something they have little knowledge of!
Still i'm happy that its unpopular as I hope this will keep it cheap as a 130 mile daily commute on petrol prices is very expensive.....
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I think LPG conversions sell particularly well on eBay.
I think they are a great bonus for people who insist on running thirsty 4x4s. Land Rovers with V8s for instance.
If you're going to compare a modern diesel with a modern LPG converted petrol, then you'll probably go for the diesel.
Finally, I'm not certain what you mean by a 'decent' LPG conversion. I'd guess that you're better off going to a small independent who really knows what he's doing - and then it shouldn't cost you much over £1,000 fully fitted.
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I agree Aprilia. I converted my own Range Rover using a sequential injection system by OMVL. It runs beautifully as I have set it up properly which is the key as you point out. Unfortunatley there are a lot of cowboy installers bodging the job.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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These guys have most of the answers
www.lpgforum.co.uk/
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This very nice German guy has an engish version on his page:
www.autogas-forum.de/de-version/
All interesting stuff. I ran a Nubira LPG for a year - liked the fuel savings, rest of the car wasn´t up to much. Engine blew at 100k, ended up selling it to a trader in the Lebanon for ?800. It had some problems backfiring through the airfilter and blowing off the cover, very exciting. I would give it a go if you can find a reputable converter, and a distributor near you - mine was a half mile away.
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