I have owned a '92 Granada Scorpio 2.9i 24v for about 5 years now. I still love the car, runs well, and plenty of power when I want it. My problem is that to be honest its looking now like an old farmers run about, the back arches are scabby, and the paintwork dull.
Only have about £7k to spend, considering the old Scorpio is worth about nothing now. Had thought about an Omega 2.5 or 3.0. But all I hear is about how unreliable these cars are.
Is this true???? I know HonestJohn has a poor opinion.
Help needed. Thanks
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Gav,
I've owned one for a year now and raved about it.. I suffered one major problem, a failed crankshaft sensor, which cost around £180 (I think). Other than that, it's been wonderful; a superb motorway eater and supremely comfortable.
However, since my last rant on the subject and how ownderful they are, two of my mates who own them have suffered problems.
One has one that just wouldn't start sometimes. In the way of all intermittenty faults, he took it to the garage and they couldn't find anything wrong, so he went to collect it and couldn't start it. Called the mechanic, who got in and started it, no problem. This saga continues...
Another has just blown two batteries. Again, Vauxhall dealership cannot solve the problem - it seems just to have gone away.
I remain in love with mine, but a search through the site for Omega will give you a more unbiased view. I think you either love them or hate them.
Finally, for my change of car in December this year I'm now considering a Toyota Camry or a Nissan QX, as I've owned Japanese bikes and never had a problem and my father's owned a Corolla and NEVER had to do anything bar routine servicing. OK, so Japanese cars haven't got any image, but ask any BMW driver and he'll tell you the Omega's just as bad.
Hope this helps. The search on Omega is the important bit.
V
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I had one of those Granadas - 92 J saloon. I sold it for £1400 with 213,000 miles on the clock! It had scabby arches, powdery alloys and dull met blue paint. A bit of elbow grease made it look quite good. It was a hand me down from my father and he replaced it with an E-Class 320. You might get a few bob for it, just be patient with people getting excited about the Cosworth badge and asking about turbos!
He was intending to buy a newer Scorpio, (possably estate) for a while but just couldn't accept the front lights. Basically the same car but a few improvements. It's difficult to find something that changed from luxury barge to snarling road burner quite as well as the 24v Granada. It had a very nice V6 engine. The Omegas we tried weren't very impressive and a 7 series BMW needed a 4.4 V8 to match the Grannys urge, so was rapidly rejected. A V12 Jag tempted for a while but sense preveiled, hence the E-class.
Piers
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I don't know whether you're wanting a new car, but if not have you considered one of the last Scorpio's, the frog-faced effort that everyone called plug-ugly until Mercedes copied the idea of droop-looking headlights. Particularly the 24v Cosworth-engined Ultima auto. I ran the estate version ('96 N plate) for a couple of years, quite probably the best car I've had in terms of comfort (check out the Ultima goodies), power (I think the engine is an uprated version of yours), and reliability. Servicing costs are ok too and I reckon the cockpit look, feel, and layout was second to none. Before and since, I've had Audi, Volvo, and (ahem) Citroen, and would put the Cozzie streets ahead of all of them. I often lament Ford's strategy to move out of this sector of the market. I think the last Scorpio's were produced 3 or 4 years ago.
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Is the Cosworth version much more expensive to insure? Does the underbonnet view look like a nightmare, as my old Audi 200 turbo did?
I belive Cosworths need special attentioon sn checking. Is that so?
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>>Is the Cosworth version much more expensive to insure?<<
I don't recall exactly but I don't think it struck me as excessive at the time. I think it's Group 15 or 16?
>>Does the underbonnet view look like a nightmare, as my old Audi 200 turbo did?<<
No - it looked the business. Though I wouldn't want to spend a weekend on it with the Haynes manual (if they did one for the Cozzie).
>>I belive Cosworths need special attentioon sn checking. Is that so?<<
No. It wasn't a highly-tuned job. Easily serviceable by any competent Ford dealer. I think the Cosworth badging is a touch overblown - it's essentially a Ford V6 with Cosworth touches here and there. Not as highly strung as the Cosworth Sierra, for example.
Hope this helps.
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If my Pug 405 atmo diesel estate is found dead in its cage one morning, Omega 2.5 diesel estate may be favoured replacement as I need:
1/Comfy motorway cruising (long-legged Vectra fine - Omega even better?). I'm just back from a 750 mile cruise around the UK using 95% motorway.
2/Decent economy (45+ on Omega diesel if "pootled"?). Jason Plato I'm not.
3/Space. I lug reasonably clean old telecomms equipment about. The Omega seems to have a cavernous hold and low-sill easy loading, as well as no daft aesthetic rake on the rear door rendering space unuseable (a la 406 estate..)
4/Towing ability (occasionlly need to tow a hired box van trailer)
5/Value for money (I scored well in picking up my Monterey for over £1000 less than the equivilent Trooper due to the Vauxhall badge). Omega seems a lot of car for the money. Plummeting depreciation working in my favour?
6/ Loads of taxi drivers have them. And they are not known to enjoy having the bonnet up at the weekend just for fun. Diesel estates are snapped up by them, it seems.
Or can the team think of anything else? Xantia diesel estate? Are you there, HJ?
rg
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Used to drive my old bosses one (automatic).
Good motorway cruiser although the auto box zapped a lot of performance. But if you like a nice relaxed drive they are a good car. Comfy as well.
Space - huge.
Quite comfy but had a really annoying habit of the windscreen always fogging up
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Rob,
If you cary a lot of kit the ability of a self-levelling suspension to maintain correct rear geometery makes the handling/ride exceptional.
Xantia!
David
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well...what a surprise...any bias in this one? ;-)
Or just sound experience?
The Pug lugged two UPS (lots of heavy batts) plus large-ish telephone systems, total combined weight 350kgs++ on wednesday. Seriously heavy. Suspension sagging but not bottoming ( I have augmented the "swinging arm" with "spring assisters"). Stability OK, and whole car not sitting particularly "nose high".
I drove slowly and prayed a lot...
(Ironically, the equipment was being removed from under the noses of the traffic section at a police H.Q....)
My point being...would the Xantia pop it's tennis balls at this kind of weight? At least the Pug has honest down-to-earth (and very good) mechanical suspension. I would hate to wreck something very expensive.
Yes, agree that the Xantia is a good towing machine. I seem to recall the seats being a bit uncomfortable for 6ft-types like me.
rg
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>would the Xantia pop it's tennis balls at this kind of weight? At least the Pug has honest down-to-earth (and very good) mechanical suspension. I would hate to wreck something very expensive.
Rob,
Far from it. The rear suspension struts on the Xantia are very reliable. They will swallow a massive load and serenely rise to the normal position, it really does make a huge difference for excessive weight carrying.
The other week we collected 600lbs of Land Rover engine/components with the hatchback Xantia. Even with four folks and a dog in the car it "clicked" up to level in seconds (hydraulic Citroen owners will know what I mean) and drove perfectly. A normal suspension system would have been on the bump stops.
We've also tested BX Estates to/past the limit with log carrying. I don't know exactly but think the hydraulic performance/lift of the rear suspension may be over a ton each side. I guess the car body and pther components limit it.
For a conventional car the best system I've ever used is on a Saab Turbo that had air rear suspension, also excellent.
David
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...and another thing...
I understand from my local repair shop that the brake circuit is linked to the suspension. Failure of one would cause failure of the other and v.v.
True or false?
And how common is it?
rg
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"Linked"?
The suspension is conventional - springs and shockers, the brakes are hydraulic.
The only thing it could be is that cars with the self levelling rear suspension have a small air compressor which sits in the front o/s wheel arch - this is linked via a small bore air pipe to the rear shock absorbers which are adjusted by air pressure. Perhaps your local chap confused this line as being a brake circuit as the bore is a similar size.
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Robert,
I think Rob was refering to the Citroen systems being linked. I haven't edited down a description of their set-up to post yet. Suffice to say it is a perfect way to provide central system assistance.
David
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David,
Thanks.
HJ "Car by Car Breakdown" mentions Xantia weakness on ABS computer. Any comments? Expensive?
Also...
Pug now making clonking noises turning left at certain degree of lock (not as a result of load carrying last week..). Sounds like classic U-J noise. But isn't.
My tame mechanic suspects sick rack. arrgghh. Expensive. Driveshafts just replaced hence new U-J and these rechecked. Bad balljoint renewed in advance of MOT at end of March. Any experience of Pug racks failing like this? Alternative diagnosis would be diff bearing. Crown wheel will eventually eat it's way out of the gearbox housing like something out a horror film, it seems. In either case, I have a couple of months before MOT time, so enough time for the fault to develop and aid diagnosis. Yes, it's hard to ghive precise advice without driving it. But I'm not that handy for fenland.....
Any sage advice appreciated.
rg
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Rob,
Yes the early couple of years of the Xantia run did have an ECU that is said to be liable to failure. Mine on a '93 car has given trouble. If you were buying a '96 or later then they're better, as are the headlamps!
Having said that ECUs are often blamed and less often actually faulty. The most likely fault on the Xantia ABS is a failed front wheel sensor/cable. About £65 for the part and an easy if fiddly fit.
I think the fairest thing to say about Xantia reliability is it's broadly the same as any other mid-range car. The luck with an individual car is a greater factor than any issue with the make or model. Those who don't understand the suspension will put you off with horror stories but these are often more folklore than fact.
Regarding your 405......
If the clunk is in time with wheel rotation and speeds up as you pull away it is so likely to be driveshafts, exchange units have been faulty! If you are 100% happy about excluding them what about the lower arm inner bushes and anti-roll bar drop links?
The drop links can produce a really annoying clonk, this is sometimes hard to find because when you jack up the car to check them they are are under such tension the play is masked.
You can usually feel the play in a steering rack with the wheels off the ground and rocking each in turn.
Not a tyre hitting a mudflap?
David
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David,
Yes, I suspect driveshafts as well, but my chap is adamant. And our relationship is long-standing, so it is unliklely that he is trying a "revenue generation" exercise. I will pass your comments to him. Wold there be aby circumstances where the rack would rattle in time to wheel rotations?
rg
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Rob,
It is so likely that this "rotational clunk" is driveshafts but I understand your problem. I have known cheap exchange shafts to be worse than the old ones you took off. Even the odd quality exchange unit can be noisy.
It isn't always possible to feel a joint that will be noisy. I've known ones with minimal play that clonk.
The steering rack would be more likely to clatter on potholes, as would the inner wishbone joints and drop links.
I know many of these cars at 150K+ with no noise from the final drive so that would not be first on my list of likely problems.
With your established relationship best not to wade in but I would probe the source of these replacement driveshafts and the possibility one joint wasn't properly overhauled.
Difficult. I'm quite open minded about these things but it is natural to be defensive when your work is questioned.
Good luck.
David
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David,
Thanks for your kind help...
...ultimate solution is a Xantia, then......
;-))
rg
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Rob,
Well it's taken a few posts but objective possibly achieved!
David
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Bear in mind that the Omega comes second from bottom in the Consumer's Assoc reliability tables - only the Jaguar XJ does worse.
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As a precaution I put a 3/8in bolt with hefty thick washers through both rear seatbelt "male" bits pulled out to their full extent (joining them together across the end of the loadbay) This may give me some protection from stuff slamming forward in a collision. My load is unsually fairly voluminous as well as heavy, though. Not sure how this would work with logs...at all.
rg
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I'll back David up with the Citroen idea. We too use our BX estate for log carrying, and it has no trouble stacked up to top of seat-back height with Silver Birch. It's much slower, but it handles more or less as normal. And the extra the brake force distribution to the rear disks means it stops ok, too - I wish I could say the same about the logs, though.
Chris
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Robert,
Thanks for your response. How did the 2.5 diesel fare? decent economy?
Plenty of ex-Police petrol models around, but the BMW 6-cyl diesel sounds a better idea.
rg
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Robert,
Thanks for your response. How did the 2.5 diesel fare? decent economy?
Plenty of ex-Police petrol models around, but the BMW 6-cyl diesel sounds a better idea.
rg
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Economy was ok - but nowhere as good as I had hoped for - it was an auto. I took the car from 23k to 44k in six months.
The performance was good, a good spec (CDX), but I do remember the whistle from the turbo which was clearly audible on acceleration.
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Hi, taking an objective view:
I've had a number of Omega's over the last six years. Company and now my own following the company car tax changes. I've had saloons, estates, auto's, manuals, petrol & diesel spread over 8 different cars.
There are a few niggles with the car - in my view limited to the door handles lockups and useless dealers! In a total of 250k miles, I've only suffered from actual failure of door handles and one dead battery. Early cars suffer from poor headlights - the Xenons are excellent, as is the Bose sound system on the Elite. Early cars also had sunroofs with a mind of their own - although this was amusing rather than anything else and never actually failed on me.
Parts and servicing are reasonable priced, they are roomy and not too expensive once the depreciation bottoms out. Plenty in the breakers as well. I get 33+ on a run out of my manual 3 litre - its also fast when needed, comfortable, effortless on the motorway (get cruise control if you do a lot of motorway work) and the wall of torque never ceases to amaze me ......
My current car suffered at the hands of its previous owner - with two wheels being buckled - this took me some time to sort (see previous threads), but wasn't the cars fault.
Elite estates have self levelling suspension - optional on other models.
I HATE the post 2000 model looks - both exterior and interior.
I won't be getting another - six years with one marque is enough. A 330D next methinks.
Hope this helps .......
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Can we get it right about the "Cosworth" engined Scorpio. It doesn't have a Cosworth engine any more than a Vauxhall. Cosworth is an engineering company who provide consultancy (very well) on the design of new engines or components. They designed the cylinder heads for the Escort Cosworth, Sierra Cosworth, Scorpio 24v, most of the Vauxhall 16v engines and many other engines as well. Many of the Cavaliers and most of the Vectras that everyone despises are just as entitled to a "Cosworth" badge on the back as the Sierra Cosworth and the Scorpio is the same as a Vauxhall in that respect.
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I agree with Vin about getting a QX or Camry.
A late old shape Mondeo v6 would be another good alternative and far better to drive.
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