I am not saying it should be ignored, it is just that the manufacturer specified that the filter only needed cleaning. It is a major change to have to replace it at a cost of around £400 and why should the owners of these cars have to foot the bill for a mistake that the manufacturer has made?
When did Citroen decide that it needed replacing and what have they done about notifying the owners of these cars?
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I can't see any mention of it in the Car-by-Car Breakdown for this car either.
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A request to HJ. Is there any chance of getting a statement from Citroen on this issue?
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Slightly off-topic - with the new Mercedes A class, although the diesel engines meet EURO4 requirements, a particle filter is offered as a £360 option. Be interesting to see how many take up that option.
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Slightly off-topic - with the new Mercedes A class, although >>the diesel engines meet EURO4 requirements, a particle filter >>is offered as a £360 option. Be interesting to see how many >>take up that option.
>>
Does it make the car look any better? NO
Does it make the car go faster? NO
Does it make the car handle better? NO
Does it play 6 cd's? NO
Will Mercedes sell one with it fitted? NO
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Only the 2.2 has the particle filter (my one unfortunately!) As far as I know the 'replacement' filter you get is actually a recycled one and at the moment there is nowhere in the UK that can recycle them so they're shipped back to France for a powerwash (says he cynically!) and returned at great cost to us. The last time I asked my dealer about it he said the price is coming down and off the top of his head he thought he could now do one for around £275 (part only) The EOLYS fluid is refilled at the same time (pricey stuff too)
Having said all that the filter does a marvellous job. My C5 is just coming up to 45,000 and the tailpipe interior is still spotless shiny metal - as new! I can't honestly say I have ever seen anything coming out since I bought the car!
One compensation might be that the exhaust system beyond the filter should last much longer, so in the long term cost of ownership might not be that greater.
The latest C5s have 100,000 intervals for filter changes - older ones like mine are 50,000.
Will let you know what it sets me back very soon - I'm on 45,000 so won't be long!
Graeme
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Seems like you have accepted the situation. Are you not annoyed that the service schedule says that the filter only needs cleaning, not replacing?
If the owners of these cars protested collectively, it might produce a helpful response from Citroen.
I doubt very much that one section of exhaust would be anywhere near the cost of replacing the filter every 50,000 miles.
Does anyone know what has been done to extend the interval from 50,000 to 100,000 miles?
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Somebody's working on it:
"Castrol, strategic partner of BMW, have developed a new lubricant with `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` in close cooperation with BMW, which sets new standards in the industry. Castrol SLX LL04 0W-30 is specially engineered to keep the engine and exhaust system clean, reducing harmful emissions to the environment. SLX LL04 is developed for the new generation of BMW cars with particulate filters and meets the latest specifications BMW Longlife04. Due to its `Clean Performance TechnologyTM`, SLX LL04 reduces long term blocking of the particle filters and can be used in all BMW diesel and petrol engines (excluding M series). Castrol is the first lubricant manufacturer to bring a `Clean Performance TechnologyTM` oil onto the market."
(from germancarfans site)
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Is this oil available now?
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The article was headed "Castrol introduces....", however Google search for "Castrol SLX LL04 0W-30" doesn't show any UK references.
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I'm puzzled why you are complaining about this filter. Weren't you aware of it when you bought the car? It is not a 'fault' as such, it is part of the design philisophy of the car and I believe part of Citroen's marketing emphasises the low emissions obtained by using this technology.
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I'm puzzled why you are complaining about this filter. Weren't you aware of it when you bought the car? It is not a 'fault' as such, it is part of the design philisophy of the car and I believe part of Citroen's marketing emphasises the low emissions obtained by using this technology.
I am complaining because the maintenance schedule says the filter only needs cleaning every 50k miles. Now Citroen are saying that it needs replacing, which is quite a difference I would say. So no, I didn't know that it needed replacing when I bought it.
As for using this technology, the new 2.0 HDI engine doesn't have a particle filter and yet Citroen are oontinuing to fit the 2.2 HDI to the diesel auto model, whereas Peugeot are using the 2.0 HDI.
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As for using this technology, the new 2.0 HDI engine doesn't have a particle filter and yet Citroen are oontinuing to fit the 2.2 HDI to the diesel auto model, whereas Peugeot are using the 2.0 HDI.
I repeat my previous points:
The PSA/Ford 1.6 and 2.0 engines in the Focus have a particle filter so I reckon the must do in the Citreon's and Peugeots as well.
The 407 is completely new so has been engineered to suit the new Ford/PSA engine, the C5 is a facelift so it was probably more cost effective to continue with the 2.2 than to re-engineer for the new 2.0.
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I repeat my previous points: The PSA/Ford 1.6 and 2.0 engines in the Focus have a particle filter so I reckon the must do in the Citreon's and Peugeots as well. The 407 is completely new so has been engineered to suit the new Ford/PSA engine, the C5 is a facelift so it was probably more cost effective to continue with the 2.2 than to re-engineer for the new 2.0.
Do you happen to know the maintenance requirements for the particle filter in the Focus?
Why would it be necessary to re-engineer the C5 to mate up the new 2.0 HDI with an auto box? The previouse C5 used to have the old 2.0 HDI mated to the auto transmission.
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Do you happen to know the maintenance requirements for the particle filter in the Focus?
I have an internal Ford doc on the new Focus (given by a friendly chap at my local dealership), I will look later and see what detail it gives in this regard.
Why would it be necessary to re-engineer the C5 to mate up the new 2.0 HDI with an auto box? The previouse C5 used to have the old 2.0 HDI mated to the auto transmission.
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I guess that C5 manuals sell in high enough quantities to justify re-engineering the car to fit the new 2.0HDi however the autos sell in much smaller volumes hence it being, perhaps, uneconomical to re-engineer a new subframe etc etc to fit the new 2.0/auto combination. Much easier to continue with the older 2.2 auto. Presumably the new 2.0 and auto box, as per the 407, will be fitted to the C5 replacement which must be due in approx 2 years.
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>> Slightly off-topic - with the new Mercedes A class, although >>the diesel engines meet EURO4 requirements, a particle filter >>is offered as a £360 option. Be interesting to see how many >>take up that option. >> Does it make the car look any better? NO Does it make the car go faster? NO Does it make the car handle better? NO Does it play 6 cd's? NO Will Mercedes sell one with it fitted? NO
>>Will the car belch out black smoke when booted? YES - MOST PROBABLY!!
The whole idea of the particle filter is to eliminate black smoke and has a clever way of regenerating its effectiveness by a self cleaning action using the special fluid.
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It is interesting to see, also, that Peugeot are offering non FAP and FAP alternatives for their 407 HDI range.
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The internal Ford doc on the new Focus given by a friendly chap at my local dealership that I referred to above quotes:
"On the 1.6 and 2.0 litre diesel engines the fuel additive tank must be refilled every 37500 miles and the diesel particle filter renewed every 75000 miles ..."
It also says elsewhere "both diesel engines will be available with a Diesel Particulate Filter" which seems to imply that the particle filter is an option however I am not sure about this.
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Sorry, I did not quote the whole piece, yes it refers to the EU4 engines.
However I did not know that the EU3 1.6 was being fitted in the Focus, I thought it was only the C-Max and was now being replaced by the EU4.
The 92ps engine is the one in the Zetec S Fiesta, perhaps it's lack of need for a particle filter is one reason Ford fitted it to the Fiesta instead of the 110.
Regards.
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It will be interesting to see how much Ford charge for a new filter. It looks replacement of the filter is now the only option and that simply cleaning it is not an option.
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Got an estimate today from the local Citroen main dealer for topping up the fuel additive tank. The labour alone would be £80+Vat. The cost of the additive would depend on the amount required to top it up (can't understand this as, if it is at the minimum level, it should be a standard amount), so I don't have any idea of the cost of the additive.
I was also told there could be a faulty sensor in the additive tank which would require a new tank. Wonderful, isn't it?
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I checked with a local independent garage today (recommended by this web site) and they don't deal with the business of replenishing the additive. So, unless I can find someone else to do it, it looks like the main dealer is the only one I can use. They even charge around £28 just to check the level.
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On reflection, it seems that the service interval for checking and replenishing the fuel additive is largely guess work. As this is a fuel additive, the rate at which it is used must be governed by fuel consumption which can vary trememdously from car to another. An automatic, like ours, will obviously use more fuel than a car with a manual gearbox.
This would explain why we have had the message on the control panel at around 38K miles, rather than at around 50K miles. The chap at the independent garage did tell me that he has known it to vary from 40K miles right up to 70K miles.
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Well, I eventually took the car to the local main dealer, as the chap who services our Citroens has still to get the required computer equipment.
Total cost of topping up fuel additive (6 litres) approx £158.
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£160 for fuel additive... £500 to replace the particle filter... makes me think that it's only economic to run a diesel if you do high mileages!
Think I'll stick with petrol, thank you very much.
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I'm sure there will soon be websites telling you how to do away with these silly contraptions, which I'm sure are only to help sell more new cars to companies by making them obsolete quicker.
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They actually gave me a 10% discount too. They must have felt sorry for me! It amazes me that it takes over an hour to do the job. Then you have to pay for two quantities of the fluid, a 5 litre pack and a 1 litre pack. The 1 litre pack costs a third of the 5 litre pack, which really annoys me.
I think I made a comment in an earlier post that these cars will not be wanted by anyone when they get to be worth very little, as the cost of maintaining them will be prohibitive. One piece of good news that I did get, was that a reconditioned particle filter costs about £150, rather than the £400 that they charge for a new one. I can't see many people opting to have a new one. Mind you, I don't know how much it will cost for the labour to fit it.
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I've only done 16,000 miles in my '03 so hopefully it'll be quite a while before I need a top up. When the dreaded day dawns I'll combine the work with a "booze cruise" I bet it's 60% cheaper in France.
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