I have a 2.5 year old Golf from new. 20,000 miles on the clock.
Volkswagen informed me that the brake pads were 80% worn and should be replaced. Okay. BUT they also told me that all 4 discs were badly lipped and must also be replaced. I found this absurd and told them so. I have never had to replace discs before on any car. I would have accepted their advice if the brake pads had worn down completely, but they were only 80% worn. Total cost with labour was over £600
Since I needed the car, I told them to go ahead but to keep me the pads and discs as I would take the matter up with Volkswagen H.O. Correspondence has been going back and forth for several months and they deny any responsibility, as its doewn to fair wear and tear. By the way, they have never examined the discs, only accepted the word of the Garage.
Their last letter told me to seek advice from another Volkswagen dealer, as they would not entertain my request to have their own technicians examine the discs themselves. I don't intend to let them get away with this so easily.
Has anyone had a similar problem wit the discs?
My worry is that on the basis of what they have told me, its looks like new discs every 20,000 miles and I find their pricing a little too hot for comfort!
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Unless your driving style is particularly fierce, 20000 miles for a set of pads, let alone discs, seems absurdly low. I didn't have to replace either on the Audi I sold at 57000 miles; no signs of trouble on a MB sold at 37000 miles; certainly none on my current MB at 27000 miles; and no such thing on my Golf VR6 at 23000 miles. Check it out in one of the Golf groups on the Net and also the magazine(s) and owners club.
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I do not profess to be an expert on brakes but the replacement cost of the discs and pads seems to be the norm from a VW dealer. As to the mileage at which they became necessary to replace them really depends on the style of driving and the type of journey that the car usually makes. Town driving for example will obviously wear out brakes faster. I have noticed though that I am replacing discs far more frequently than of old. It seems not unusual for a set of discs to be worn below the minimum thickness before the end of a second set of pads.
Next time you need new brakes try Euro Car Parts or Swedish and German, you will get OE parts at a fraction of VW prices.
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Oliver
Disk wear is more of a problem, these days, and has been made so because pads no longer contain asbestos. The new materials are harder and the only way to retain braking friction is for the disks to be softer than they were with asbestos pads.
Andrew is quite correct in saying that driving style will have a big impact. Brakes are used a lot in town driving and less frequently on motorways. As an example, I travel about 20K miles per year and a lot of this is commuting to work via motorway and clear B-roads. Disks on my 306 diesel lasted 48K miles, and pads about 24K.
However, I think that 20K is poor for rear disks, and probably a bit low for fronts. Another thing to consider is that most disks become lipped quite early, but the only way to be certain is to measure the thickness and compare it against the minimum spec for the car. On my 306 they measured just below the minimum, and I replaced them - but if I had not had a micrometer then (visually) I'd have said they were OK.
Probably not much help, really
Ian
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The more I read on this website the happier I am to be driving around in Old, fast and fun disposable cars!!!!!!!
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andy sampson wrote:
>
> The more I read on this website the happier I am to be
> driving around in Old, fast and fun disposable cars!!!!!!!
Amen!!!
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I agree that brake life depends on driving style, although I'm getting at least twice the miles from my new Focus compared with my more sedately-driven 405.
However, it does seem crazy if the disc pads do not last longer than the discs ?!!
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I am still on original rear brake pads on my van after 81,000 miles. When replacing front disc brakes noticed removal of asbestos caused new brakes to remove disc rust quickly.
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Your only course of action now appears to be to have the parts inspected by independent Technicians/Engineers/brake-specialist and then make a formal claim through the small claims court. Writing to WhatCar magazine for their help might also help. Also tell VW that you are now publicising your problems on internet sites as well as taking up the matter with the motoring media/press. This will work wonders.
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Frankly, I think you'd be wasting your time. Whiulst 20k miles isn't good, especially on the back, it is clear that the modern non-asbestos pads do wear brake discs faster than the older type.
A combined pad and disc change is not uncommon, and the argument would be on grounds of safety - the new pads would take time to wear into the old discs and pad life - worn discs will reduce pad life.
Also, it's not that uncommon to have to replace pads and or discs at this mileage. It depends upon the car and driver. My neighbour (not a hooligan) has just had new pads and discs on a Scenic at 30k or so because the pads were down to the metal! Car has been serviced by a main dealer from new. HJ had commented many times that light use of brakes leads to corrosion and more wear than occasional hard use.
Take the advice above and get decent quality components from the specialists and reduce the cost of the repair.
Regards
JS
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Oliver
1. Ask the dealer if he knows how thick the pad material should be when new and what it is now - I bet he doesn't know. All they will have done will be a quick visual inspection without even taking the wheels off.
2. Ditto for discs
If they don't know ask for a proper inspection/assessment
Hope this helps
Charles
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My last Saxo had to have the original front disks and pads replaced at 16,000 miles. Kwik-Fit replacements were still going strong at 60k, and were just over half the cost of what the Citroen main dealer quoted.
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My reading of the question is that Oliver has already had new pads and discs fitted some months ago by the dealer. Part of his query is how to get the removed/returned parts checked out to see whether the claimed wear is such that the parts needed replacing. The other part is that if this is proved to be true, then is this to be expected so early. The replies so far seem to be mainly addressing the second part of the question.
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Oliver - a lot of response to your e-mail, including the unhelpful!
So many factors to take into account.Pads and disks DO wear out much faster with the removal of asbestos. Different driving styles will affect wear rates dramatically on both pads and disks. I typically get 35K out of front pads (on a Cavalier 2.0) and around 70K out of the disks. Convieniently, I change both pads and disks at 70K ish.
However, my reaon for changing the disks is not down to wear or 'lips'. It is because after the disks have taken around half their permitted wear, they have a tendancy to warp, which gives the customary brake judder which many are familiar with. Such warping can be encouraged by a lot of regular hard braking which tends to repeatedly over heat the disks.
Your old disks should be accurately measured and if necessary, challenge the dealer. Forget the pads. At every MOT the respective garages I use always tell me that I need new pads regardless. The main dealer has even told me that I need new disks on the basis that his records didn't show that they had replaced them to date.
Take the advice of using specialist parts suppliers. My ventilated disks for my (yes I know, bog standard cheap as muck)Cavalier cost £18 plus VAT each. It takes me a leisurely couple of hours to change disks and pads. No special tool needed.
Good luck.
Keith
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FWIW, I drive a 2.5 yr old, 1.6 Felicia which has Golf/Polo running gear. I've just had a 50.000 ml service neither pads nor disks have been change.
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lots of new cars spend months in a field in Corby (or elsewhere) in between factory (or ship) and the main dealer...
now if you ever look at those fields you'll see that a number of those cars spend a few months in deep water/mud...
which would probably lead to premature brake disk wear, due to corrosion and then braking wearing away the rust layer...
so its pretty much a lottery where your car was stored before being delivered to your dealer as new...
having said that brake disks are now designed as "consumables", but i would be wanting to measure their thickness myself at this age/milage
you should have watched, and kep the actual parts there and then, they could eaily get mixed up with genuinely worn examples if work generation had been in play by the garage...
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Excellent and accurate advice Kieth.
The disc thickness and wear tolerance will be in a Haynes manual. A vernier gauge or a micrometer are easy to purchase and relatively inexpensive when compared to the effort required to seek alternative routes.
Disc and brake replacement is very cheap on my home maintained Cavalier and Astra SRI. I do however keep a log book which is really helpful in planning preventative maintenance and oil changes.
Julian
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