I'm deliberating! I'm looking to change my car and will have about £13-£14k to spend.
Buying new won't get me much-I'm after a family/exec with auto and so far looked at Volvo S60, Mondeo, Vectra, Jag X-type, MG ZT, VW Passat, all nearly new.
Lets take the Vectra-nice 2.2 petrol auto, leather, climate etc etc-loads of goodies but I'll buy it when it's 18 months old for £13k and in 3 years what will it be worth-£7k if I'm lucky.
So what if I bought a BMW 5 series, Audi A4 or Merc E class. All will be 4 years old so out of warranty. Will I have big repair bills to bite me or will they be worth the extra outlay and treat me to luxury motoring at not to high cost?
I'm confused!
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If a new Mondeo 2.0 Ghia Auto isn't much, I'm not sure what to say...
An 18 month old Vectra really shouldn't be £13k, and no way will it be worth £7k in three years' time. Probably a four year old would go for £5k or so.
A four year old 5 series should be about £12k for a relatively low mileage car. Over three years that will depreciate to £6k or so, so it's not free motoring by any means. It'll be a little thirstier than a four cylinder Mondeo, about the same as a V6. There is a risk of out of warranty bills, although a good independent specialist and regular servicing can keep those under control. There is a risk but older prestige metal isn't depreciation free either.
An £11k Mondeo 2.5 Ghia X auto on a 53 plate ( www.motorpoint.co.uk ) has all the kit, comfort and performance. It'll be down to £5k in three years with a low mileage so depreciation will be similar to the BMW, but at least the first two years will still be in warranty.
The Mondeo is a remarkably good car for the money, but I wouldn't say there is a compelling financial argument one way or another. If you feel more comfortable driving a newer car then by all means do so, but if a BMW or similar puts a big smile on your face, get that instead.
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It is a difficult decision.
Do I go for very nearly new and well kitted out car, such as the Vectra Elita or Mondeo Ghia X (I want a bit of luxury!) but which will loose money hand over fist. And may have just as many problems as the next car.
Or do I go for understted quality such as an Audi A4 or BMW 5 series, both which will be on 2001 plates so just out of normal warranty, but which are (well perceived) better built so shouldn't give me trouble if serviced and well looked after.
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Another factor to take into account is the Service costs and up keep of the so called prestige cars. They may hold there residuals better but will cost you up to 3 times more to run and maintain over that time.
You need to compare the service and parts costs of the BMW to say the Mondeo and see what financial impact each has over the period you are planning to run the vehicles.
Carse
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This is true. I was initially looking at Volvo S60's but heard that the servicing was very costly.
However, I drive between 10k and 12k a year, so I would hope this means one service a year. My last 20k service on my Corolla was £125-how would this compare to the likes of Audi or BMW-£250? I think the extra in servicing would more than pay for the reduced loss come resale time.
Does anyone have any example figures of prestige servicing?
I appreciate the replies everyone-it's nice to have such helpful bunch here!
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You could consider the Lexus range. I can give details of servicing costs et al on the GS should this be of interest?
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If you stay away from main dealers and their £100 (+/-£20) hourly rates, servicing prestige marques needn't be half as costly as many imagine. There are plenty of independent specialists around who will charge out at half the rates imposed by the dealers and will also give you better-quality work; they're more often than not staffed by people with main-dealer experience who knew they could do better. Most parts aren't that costly either, and many genuine OEM parts and consumables can be sourced at Euro Car Parts and their rivals at a good discount on the main-dealer price.
Once these cars are out of warranty and if you intend keeping one for some time, the main-dealer service stamp is not that important, and knowledgeable buyers may well find more comfort in knowing that the car hasn't been serviced by main dealers. I'm not that knowledgeable, but in view of my experience with five cars (three from new, comprising MB, VAG and Ford) I'd take no comfort at all from the main-dealer stamp. Having sold one of those cars privately, I can also say that the buyer was pleased that he could talk to the independent servicing people about its condition and history.
Barring the bad luck that may require the replacement of a major component, your bank balance shouldn't be that severely tested, provided that oil changes and services are done properly and regularly.
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P.S. for Runboy: the early W210 E-class (1995--2002) is a rust bucket; its W211 successor may be better, but I'd look very, very carefully indeed before buying one, the MB long-term warranty notwithstanding. Sadly, the W210 was the first casualty of MB's revised corporate policies, which have seen them slide inexorably down the quality/reliability hill ever since. I saw recently in the MB club forum a message from someone who was getting rid of his W210 in favour of the older W124, having tired of getting all the many paintwork problems fixed under warranty. (I have a W124, my second.)
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runboy,
It is almost certainly a mistake to assume that a Mondeo will be any less reliable or durable that a more expensive, posher badged German equivalent. As I understand from various ownership surveys (which are imperfect, but are the best resource we have), modern Fords are at least as reliable as premium German brands.
If reliability and durability are the priority, you should be thinking Japanese. The Lexus IS200, Mazda 6, Toyota Avensis and (especially) the excellent new Honda Accord may fit both your needs and your aspirations.
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I would expect the extra cost in servicing of a "prestige" model to be offset by the slightly lower depreciation that these models suffer.
Barring unforeseen circumstances, then, I'd expect there to be very little difference financially between ownership of the two over the period of 3 years.
So choose what you want rather than what makes sense. Do you want a new repmobile with a warranty or a slightly older "ultimate driving machine" and a little risk? I know which I'd choose, but I can't choose for you.
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The last two cars I've had have been "common" - a Mondeo 1.8LX and a Vectra 2.0T SRi, both bought at 6 months old. On both occasions I looked at older cars from Volvo, Audi, Jaguar and MB but in the final analysis couldn't justify buying an older car with less warranty when something much newer was in reach.
I was also put off by the higher servicing costs of premium brands having previously owned an MB 190 with 6k service intervals. When I owned that car I couldn't help feeling that premium brands' servicing costs are designed around company car users who don't personally foot the bill and therefore couldn't care less what they pay. Ford and Vauxhall etc are much more reasonable in price and therefore realistic if you pay for servicing yourself.
I also agree with a number of other posters regarding the perceived "quality" of premium brands. In the 80s when the MB 190 came out, it's rock solid build was a revelation against mainstream stuff like Sierras and Cavaliers. This gap has now been closed however. Volume manufacturers now use galvanised steel and are educated in the use of tactile interior furnishings, weighty doors etc. IMO, it is just badge snobbery that dictates choice nowadays.
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> I was also put off by the higher servicing costs of premium brands
Ain't necessarily so.
My eighteen month old Volvo V70 costs no more to service than the Vauxhall Vectra GSi that preceeded it, because I use a good independent agent with Volvo trained mechanics and (though I haven't needed it so far) full Volvo diagnostics kit. Cost is literally half that of going to my local Volvo agent, and I even get a courtesy car that I don't from the latter. All components used are Volvo branded where Volvo sell it (for example filters but not the oil, where the same Shell Helix Ultra as the Volvo dealer fill with is used, for less than half the cost per litre)
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I think he will want all the BMW/Audi etc stamps in the service book though if he is to get full asking price on the re-sale. Not that independent garages don't do as good work as the dealers, they do, but some people like to see those stamps all the same.
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Thanks for the replies.
My recent few car purchases have been new so warranty has never been an issue, but depreciation has-it is a killer when you buy new.
So this time round I will buy nearly new. I want an auto so that usually means a decent size engine, which usually means a decent size motor.
The Mondeo and Vectra are good nearly new value, but I worry that they will fall even more in years 2/3/4. So I got thinking about a BMW or Audi but I suppose even they will fall in value, and to keep the value up means a main dealer service history so pricey servicing.
Maybe I should stick with the Vectra, or the Volvo S60 I was origianlly looking at, or are Volvo on a par with BMW for costs?
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Be aware that 'independents' may have problems in fixing recent models.
Basic servicing shouldn't be a problem - but when things go wrong they may not have the diagnostic kit. I was at a local motor trade bash at the end of last year and I guy I know from the BMW franchise was explaining how BMW have hiked the cost of the special tools and diagnostic kit in an attempt to freeze out the independents. He was talking about the required investment being raised to about £50k - not many independents can afford that.
The problem is not so much engine management, but rather the other systems such as ABS, airbag, aircon etc. If you have problems with one of these systems then, believe me, you are likely tied into the dealer and can hit 4-digit costs very quickly and all thought of lower depreciation will be gone!
As someone who has been involved with BMW and MB cars since the 1970's I can tell you that the 'gap' really has closed. There was an abyss between a 1990 Sierra and MB 190E; but there is only a cigarette paper between a Mondeo and C-class.
If you want an automatic then don't choose the Ford. It uses the CD4E 'box. Definitely go for the 2.2 Vectra - its a nice auto and pretty much as quiet and refined as the C-class (not that I'm keen on the body styling).
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Good point, Aprilia. However, I'd still stick with a trusted independent until a problem arose beyond the competence defined by his tools and diagnostic kit. I speak as someone who keeps his cars a long time, hence my scepticism about the value of the main-dealer service stamp when set against the excessive cost of obtaining it and the queasy feeling I would have in view of ample past evidence of main-dealer incompetence, comprehensive kit or not. Component failure can always be covered by a third-party warranty, of course.
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I agree with your sentiments, Roger.
Check the T&C's on third party warranties though - I believe it can be quite difficult to actually make a successful claim.
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I'd only ever spend my own money on a Japanese car these days. Lots to choose from but if you like to smile while you drive, get a Legacy. With your budget I'd go for a 2.5 with Lux pack, preferably with a manual box. Lots of their parts prices have come down a lot lately, not that you'd need anything other than service parts. Some examples of the parts prices are in the news section at www.subaru.co.uk.
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Subaru....never thought of them. Just looked at the new style Legacy and the model I want looks to be around £16k used.
What was the previous model like-I hear it way behind the new one?
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Just as good to drive but the interior isn't as good. I have a 2000 W plate poverty spec Legacy 2 litre GL saloon and it's a real hoot to drive compared to the competition. Grip and handling are excellent yet it still has a comfy ride. Bought it 2 years ago with 55k on it, now 95K. Nothing has gone wrong. A 2.5 will have more toys and the Lux pack gives a few more. All have 4 airbags and belt pretensioners. A real driver's car. Next car will be an Impreza WRX STi PPP if 'er indoors is in a good mood.
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>>Impreza WRX STi PPP
Should the spec-level of a car be longer than the name of the car itself?
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I've just been comparing servicing costs of a BMW 5 series and a Volvo S60 (both 2002 models).
The BMW comes out at £810 for 48,000 miles, the Volvo over £1100 for the same 48,000 miles!. I'm shocked!
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Interesting the thread title is 'Common or Prestige' and is about choosing something like a Mondeo, common, or a BMW, prestige.
Out of interested I counted both the number of BMW 3 Series and the number of Ford Mondeos on my 5 mile trip home in the city of Plymouth, not reknowned for flash cars.
12 BMW 3 Series, 11 Ford Mondeo.
Which is common, and which is prestige, and why ;)
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In Germany, the 3 Series is the second best selling car after the Golf. The 5-Series, C-Class and E-Class all outsell the Mondeo, ok a lot of E-Classes are used as taxis. These cars are not exclusive, I guess they're just nicer to own than a Mondeo or Vectra.
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I did some analysis on here a few months ago ...
Value of £21k BMW estate
After 1 year £18699.
After 2 years £14319.
After 3 years £11407.
After 4 years £9186.
After 5 years £7200.
Value of £21k Mondeo estate
After 1 year £13143.
After 2 years £9813.
After 3 years £7443.
After 4 years £5724.
After 5 years £4490.
So if you buy a new car every 2 or 3 years, there's almost nothing to choose between them (as long as you make sure you shop at HJ prices and get £4k off the Mondeo).
If you buy your cars at 2 years old, the Mondeo is a much better financial proposition than the BMW if you believe that each has a similar useful life.
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