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Dad's Ford Pop had one, as did the subsequent Moggy Minors he went on to have - can never recall a flat battery happening. But, oh dear, all those greasing points and oil reservoirs of that era... we have indeed moved on!
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>>I'm sure that Renault 4 has a hole in the front bumper for one as well
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Well the Renault 6 had one, and I think it was the same chassis as the R4, but with a nicer body on it.
The R6 ( and so I assume the R4) didn't have a transverse engine, instead the gearbox was mounted on the front of the engine, and the through the dashboard gearlever went over the top of the engine to engage with a "gearstick" coming up from the gearbox. Looked a bit odd, but seemed to work OK.
I only know because my mother had an R6 for several years nice little car: I remember once setting the points gap with a piece of folded up writing paper !
Brooklands
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I remember in my early working years a guy in the same firm had one of those antiquated three wheelers with a motorcycle engine directly driving the front wheel. The starting method was to open the bonnet, stick your foot in and operate a kick start lever.
Go down a bundle these days if you stalled in rush our traffic.
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My friend had an old Y-Reg (so early eighties?) Lada which came with a starting handle. He said it was very handy for winter mornings.
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A Bond Mk C with a Villiers 9E 197 cc two stroke engine. Could turn in its own length.
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You had one,then?
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My Wolseley 6/110 has one. The procedure is to turn on the ignition until the petrol pump stops ticking, then switch it off. Turn the handle until all cylinders have passed top dead centre once (i.e., sucked in petrol), then turn on the ignition and give a quick swing. If the engine is healthy it will start first time. If it isn't healthy then you get very tired very quickly.
To save the ring gear I used to either bump start down the driveway (very steep), or use the handle. I have difficulty with the handle now because the dogs are rounded off.
The handle is also excellent for setting up the timing.
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Morris Oxfords/Austin Cambridges had em and don't they still make them in India?
My dads 1966 Zephyr 6 took some muscle to start that with the handle!
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Bonds: had the misfortune to work at a m/c dealership that sold these things. The devil's invention if ever there was.
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I think it was not just higher compression ratios that killed starting handles, but the greater valve overlap of modern engines. They have to be turned over much faster to get the charge into the cylinders, and it would now be virtually impossible to hand-start a modern engine.
Old engines would start by simply flicking a piston over top dead centre of the compression stroke. The secret is not speed of cranking but sensing the springiness on the handle and knowing when to pull. Like watching an old aeroplane being started - one pull on the propeller, then stand back!
Marine diesels (small ones, anyway) still have handles, but they are used in conjunction with a decompression lever. You crank the engine up to a good speed and then throw the lever.The built-up momentum carries the engine over even a 20:1 compression ratio.
The cranking up a sand dune trick certainly works. The point is that a very slow speed maintains traction and cannot spin. I have seen it work to get cars out of mud. A low-range gearbox works similarly. Put a LandRover into low-range bottom gear at idling speed and it will crawl slowly over anything.
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"my Singer Chamois (Hillmap Imp with pretentions) used to have the hole (and the starting handle) as a quick search of google images will show"
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go on, your need some fresh air ! www.mikes-walks.co.uk
Borasport,
I had two Chamois' from new in the middle 1960s, and but I can't remember the starting handle. Still it was a long time ago. Are you sure that the hole was for a starting handle and not to enable you to insert a key to wind up the spring?!!
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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My first car was a Riley 9 Monaco circa 1929. Magneto ignition, advance retard etc. There was an electric starter but the battery was always flat and I was an impecunious student (beer at 2/3 per pint cost the same as petrol) so I used the starting handle.
Retard ignition, set hand throttle, turn so just on compression and swing hard. (Hold with fingers and thumb wrapped round handle on same side: not as natural otherwise if it kicked back you stood a risk of breaking a thumb). Always stsrted after 2nd time.
And no the Riley was not new! I am not THAT old - mid 1965 iirc:-)
Austion A35 had one. Never used it. Rover 110 had one: used it and a pig to turn over as 2.6litre engine and high compression. Old Land Rovers had them until quite recently I think.
Ford 10 Prefect and Anglia had one. Not good engines to start altho low compression meant easy turning.
Nostalgia? The bad old days. Never again!
madf
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After much research, I thought I'd put everyone out of their misery:
The last car to be made with a starting handle was the Citreon 2CV, which went out of production in 1990.
Don't bandy it about too much, I'm about to stick it in a pub quiz! hehe
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We used to service an old Ford, a Prefect, possibly.
It had a self-starter which was an innovation when the car was made.
The self-starter was operated by a pull knob on the dashboard.
The graphic on the knob was a representation of a starting handle.
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It used to be a requirement on commercial vehicles so the van versions of the 100E & 105E had starting handles and a rad with a hole in.
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Mk1 Ford Escorts right through from 1968 to 1974 had the slot in the front panel, but would not actualy take a starting handle. The Anglia had the slot and the handle IIRC
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Have a 1973 series 3 landrover which has a starting handle.Believe the series 3 lasted till 1983 or 1984 but dont know if the later ones had one. Tried to use it once and ended up visiting a chiropractor to fix my back mot recommended !!
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Have a 1973 series 3 landrover which has a starting handle.Believe the series 3 lasted till 1983 or 1984 but dont know if the later ones had one. Tried to use it once and ended up visiting a chiropractor to fix my back mot recommended !!
Like kickstarting a motorbike, it's all about technique. Used to start my old 1951 Landy on the handle, get it just right with the handle at about 8 o'clock, ignition on, half choke and she'd start with one quick tug on the handle. Took me a week to figure that out though!
My old Harley Ironhead Sportster is the ultimate beast for this; it's been the despair of many a BSA Gold Star and Panther owner who thought they knew all about kickstarting a motorcycle. Helps your bragging rights when you point out to 'em that on a Harley you're kicking twice the capacity without the aid of a valve lifter!
Just as a quick aside, who can tell me what the last production MOTORCYCLE to have a starting handle (as opposed to a kickstart) was?
Edited by Harleyman on 28/06/2009 at 11:54
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Just as a quick aside who can tell me what the last production MOTORCYCLE to have a starting handle (as opposed to a kickstart) was?
I'm going to guess and say Panther. I believe they made some rather strange machines in their time, including IIRC from an article in Bike many years ago the cheapest ever motorcycle sold in the UK at less than £30.
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>> I'm going to guess and say Panther.
That would be the Red Panther you're thinking of; £27 10s 6d IIRC.
Correct answer is Velocette LE, actually; the "Noddy bike" so beloved of rural policemen in the 1950's and 1960's.
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It used to be a requirement on commercial vehicles so the van versions of the 100E & 105E had starting handles and a rad with a hole in.
Yes and if it slipped off you had another hole in your rad!
You could get a kit for fitting a starting handle to a BL mini.
Road compressors and other such equipment sometimes have (or had) a wind up 'starter motor' which avoided troublesome electrics.
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We used to regularly start the Minor pick-up we used as a breakdown tender with the handle.
It was stowed just behind the cab, so you'd have it ready for use in seconds.
There was always enough power in the battery to operate the electric fuel pump, and there was next-to-no resistance on the handle.
Started first pull, every time.
We reckoned it was almost as quick as using the self-starter.
Edited by ifithelps on 28/06/2009 at 14:23
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These resurrected threads sometimes really freak me out, as I don't generally look at the date when I read a "new" post from the top down...
it's usually the reply from THe Growler that gives me an attack of "what the?" before I look a bit harder.
Meanwhile, more or less back on topic, do you think the 'elfs would allow a starting handle these days?
Or would the accountants (continue to) loose it on the grounds of saving 50p a car?
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Ifithelps's Minor, like my first beloved Austin A50, would start first pull with minimal effort because the compression ratio was so low on those old engines. With decent carburation (unlike the equivalent Fords) it was no problem.
Even on modern petrol engines - never mind diesels - it would be far too much effort for most of us. Elf and Safety might just have a point in this case.
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Starting handles?
Without a manual advance and retard lever on the steering column? And no hand throttle.
The world has gone to the dogs.
My 1929 Riley 9 of course had both... and magneto ignition: none of these fancy coils..
Humph!
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There was another hazard to using them. You had to remember to take them out again. My father had a Morris Oxford Series MO (the giant Morris Minor). Late for work one morning, it wouldn't start so he had to start it on the handle. Somewhat annoyed and in even more of a hurry he rushed off to work and embedded the handle in a brick wall. Badly bent, it was quite a job to extricate it from the car after that.
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I recall trying to start an A35 on the handle and in gear after the clutch operating rod broke (yet again), and the battery was having no more of it.
I must have been mad! Oh the ignorance of youth.
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Just went down to the workshop to look at my Renault 4 van. No starting handle hole and no way a starting handle could be used. The valance does not have a hole in it and there is no provision for anything to engage in the gearbox. Also , the front engine mounting is in the way. My car has the later Sierra 1108cc engine. The earlier cars with the Ventoux engine have holes in the bumper. I had a 6 with the Ventoux engine and this seemed to have no engagement on the gearbox either, although I could be wrong, it was 20 odd years ago.
My neighbour ran a wedding car business. One of his fleet was a Rolls 20hp by Thrupp and Maberley. It was a straight 6 and always started on the handle....and always first pull. At one wedding his driver pulled the handle up and started the car.....in gear ! It promptly ran him over and he emerged at the back with a big oil smear down his white coat, sprinted after it and jumped in....no problem. Also on the fleet were 3 Princess limos, all white and all bearing the same VRM....hmmmm He lives abroad now , needless to say !
Ted
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...to look at my Renault 4 van...
Correct me if I'm wrong, bit isn't the gearbox nearest the bumper in an R4?
Engine and gearbox in line, driving the front wheels.
For the gearbox to spin the engine, it would have to be in gear, which wouldn't work.
No access for a starting handle to the crank pulley.
Edited by ifithelps on 29/06/2009 at 20:48
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I think it would work if the front of the input shaft of the gearbox was turned by the handle and the box was in neutral. The handle would turn the shaft, clutch, and crankshaft, but not the wheels. The R4 I that owned in the early 70s had a handle.
Edited by Old Navy on 29/06/2009 at 21:48
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...The handle would turn the shaft, clutch, and crankshaft, but not the wheels...
Ah, I've got it, I think.
Thanks, ON.
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You are welcome ifit, I had to think about how it worked, cos I knew it did somehow!
Edited by Old Navy on 29/06/2009 at 22:28
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Light 15 Citroen had the gearbox in front, and a starting handle.
The problem with most cheap starting handles was their mechanical weakness. There were a few good ones. Rolls-Royce starting handles were more or less perfect, but probably cost as much as half a Ford.
A lot might depend on the muscle and coordination of the person wielding the thing. Believe me, I've half killed myself doing it sometimes.
There is no substitute for proper tune. Alas, no one knows what that means these days.
Edit in confessional mode: Just as I didn't in those days.
Edited by Lud on 29/06/2009 at 22:28
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The handle on my Austin A50 was a sturdy piece of equipment which doubled as the wheelbrace and did both jobs admirably.
I can't think what you would call the bit that the handle engaged in, but whatever it was, it ended in a 'barber's pole' groove which threw the handle out when the car started (always first go) thus avoiding the risk of a broken bone.
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>>I can't think what you would call the bit that the handle engaged in
Dog, IIRC.
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Starter dog....my Jowett has a fairly hefty one. Never been able to start her on the handle ( which is one from a Lada tool kit ) but useful for setting timing mark on flywheel and also for setting rocker adjustment.
Definately no handle facility on Sierra engined Renaults. Blank gearbox end where the dog would need to be.
Ted
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