Dear All,
I wonder whether any of you knowledgeable people could point me in the right direction: I like the Audi A3 but am unsure about model. Specifically, I am looking at a 1.6 FSI vs. a 1.9 TDI. I am not a high-mileage driver, and it would appear that I need to do just over 15,000 miles p/a over three years to make up the difference of £770.
However, there are two other considerations here... firstly, is a good bet that the diesel will keep its value better? What Car recons there is a 1% difference which doesn't sound like much.
Secondly, which will be more expensive to service and do both run on variable service intervals (not too confident in the dealer on this one!)?
Would appreciate any comments,
Toby.
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Toby,
I've been working for my local Audi dealer as a summer job for a while now, and hopefully these insights will help.
Firstly, yes both engines are on the Variable Service Program, typical is about 20k for the Diesel, and about 3k less for the petrol depending on the conditions of course, but the petrols usually need servicing sooner. Both will cost you the same amount to service as the booked service time is the same for each and both use the same oil and same amount of oil.
The Diesel will indeed keep its value better, and why, because the 1.6 (FSI or not) is a total and utter SLUG in the A3, there is nothing like enough power for real world motoring, you find yourself slipping out of 5th for even the mildest of hills, and the 6th gear they put on the FSI version is not really worth having, all it does is increase the number of changes you make while driving.
One other thought is that the FSI engines do also prefer Super unleaded (98 RON) fuel to 95, due to the high performance nature of the engine and the combustion characteristics.
I'd buy the Diesel one, its much more rewarding to drive, and the 1.6 A3s just feel so totally unimpressive.
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks for the insighful reply - very useful! Servicing sounds pretty good to me; I always feel reluctant to take the car in when I haven't done many miles etc. and the Variable Service Program sounds like just the ticket.
Thus far I have only driven the 1.9 TDI at the dealer, which I liked. I must admit that I hadn't thought that the 1.6 FSI would be slower since the brochure lists it as faster 0-60 (10.9 cf. 11.4secs).So you think that the 1.9 TDI would feel faster/'meatier'?
It is interesting that the FSI prefers Super unleaded - I guess this probably negates a lot of the fuel economy benefit!!
Toby.
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0-60 times aren't everything, the 1.6 is reasonable 0-60, but then you can hit 60 in 2nd gear where it still feels plenty lively, once you get much above that it looses all punch. The 1.9TDI still has punch, albeit not as much as the 2.0 in all the gears, and even at a 70mph cruise in 5th a mild squeeze gets you 80 without effort. To do the same in the 1.6 means a drop to 3rd from 6th to get the same level of acceleration.
The FSI "prefers" (needs?) super unleaded, as when run consistently on 95, we've seen a few engines back that have burnt out exhaust valve seats. I suspect, but don't know, that the FSI injection procedure needs the higher octane fuel to avoid pinking like petrol engines of old due to the leaner mix.
By all means drive the 1.6, but I think you'll find it a car that's hard to live with, especially in the cut and thrust south east. Also worth nothing is that the FSI real world economy isn't as close to the book as the diesels, mainly I suspect due to the fact that to keep the car moving you need to keep it well over 4000rpm to get the same punch as the 1.9TDI at 2000. The 1.6 is probably the least popular engine in the A3, and as for the 1.6 Auto... don't even go there... its much faster to push that one than drive it.
Chris
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Surprising, we find that diesels under the VSP ask for services every 15000 miles or so and petrols tend to go to 18 or 19,000.
The only A3 worth its salt is the 3.2 DSG...... ho hum
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My A2 diesel has done 26,000 miles and is now ready for the first service. 15,000 seems very low - most Audi diesel owners I have come across get well in to the 20,000 miles and some over 30,000.
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Toby - another useful thing to bear in mind is that the diesel gives you much more punch at lower revs - and on our traffic-clogged roads most of us drive most of the time at low revs.
The diesels I've had I chose as much for performance as for economy: at 15,000 miles a year there isn't much in it financially.
I think you'll get more fun out of a TDI than an FSI. Perhaps part of the appeal of my A4 is that at least I know what TDI stands for. Any offers for FSI?
Fire Starts Instantly?
Find Skoda Instead?
Feels Sluggish Initially?
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Hi Toby
I've just swapped a 16v petrol 1.6 for a 110 Tdi Elegance (Octavia)and I can honestly say there is no comparison, you must go for the diesel! It's so much quicker in real world driving, so much more useable mid-range torque. With the added bonus of 55 mpg average to date! Don't think i'll ever bother with petrol again unless it's an old classic! Oh yes and it just cost me a mere £115 for the annual tax disc too!
Baz
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Thanks for the useful replies!
Buster - wish I could stretch to the 3.2 w/DSG, but not quite :-)
Dave - long service interval like that sounds great!
Avant - yes, I did notice that the diesel was quite response when I test drove it (which was mostly around town).
Bazza - again, the performance sounds good.
So, the bottom line is it is £770 extra for the diesel.
However, went to another dealer near me today and the salesman was adament that the best bet was the plain old 1.6 (not FSI). He would have nothing of the 1.6 being underpowered. He reckoned the FSI engine was not as good at power delivery as the plain one and definately not worth the extra £450. I guess that means the gap widens to £1220 for the diesel then which is not insignificant I suppose... :-S
Thanks for the sage advice so far - would really welcome any more comments from anyone.
Toby.
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>>However, went to another dealer near me today and the salesman was adament that the best bet was the plain old 1.6 (not FSI). He would have nothing of the 1.6 being underpowered. He reckoned the FSI engine was not as good at power delivery as the plain one and definately not worth the extra £450. I guess that means the gap widens to £1220 for the diesel then which is not insignificant I suppose... :-S
>>
Has the dealer perhaps got a stock of 1.6 varient A3s in? I've heard that line before, usually when the customer wants a low cost A3 and they have a 1.6 but not a 1.9TDI in stock, waiting time is about 12wks for a factory order.
The FSI is a more revvy engine than the plain 1.6, but neither is substantially quicker than the other.
The 3.2 DSG is quick but thirsty... driven in convoy with a 2.0TDI DSG the result was 56mpg on the TDI and er 23.5mpg for the 3.2 and it might be just me but I find the diesel more fun as its more "controlled" in its delivery, the 3.2 is a little brutish to me and seems slightly more nose heavy too.
Chris
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I'm not totally certain and haven't researched it but have heard of teething problems with the new FSi engine - fuelling issues to do with the un-availability of very low sulphur petrol in the UK? But your decision is more to do with the type of driving characteristics you prefer, the lazy, torquey delivery of the TDi or a more revvy, peaky nature from a petrol engine. Depends how you drive day-to day. And of course the diesel is slightly noisier in the cabin overall. Having said that, still think you should go for the diesel, it's a cracker!
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I was constantly told the A2 1.6 FSi was a better car than the 1.4 TDi. I drove it and didn't agree, but the salesman was still very keen on flogging me an FSi. I then found out why. The FSi A2 had just been introduced and all the staff had them - even the ones who usually had the A6 to use. They could only have their usual car back once they had sold an A2 FSi!
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Ah Audi A2s, the only cars I really check before I fuel, because unlike the rest of the range, the diesels are so gutless they could be petrols and the petrols are so rough they could be diesels! Wouldn't have an A2 if you paid me (unless of course you paid me enough extra that I could buy another car to actually drive and I never had to get in the A2)
Chris
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cjehuk- you write utter nonsense.
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cjehuk- you write utter nonsense.
Enough of the insults. Thankyou.
DD.
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Any offers for FSI?
Fuel Stratified Injection
what does is do is another question though!
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Bazza is absolutely right - it depends on your style of driving. Personally I'd rather have a big unstressed torquey engine every time, like my 2.5 TDI.
But for a straight diesel v. petrol comparison I think you need a larger capacity diesel engine. I'd go for a 1.6 petrol in preference to a 1.4 diesel (as in the Audi A2) but would prefer a 1.9 TDI to either.
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Thanks for all the useful comments; looks like I have been swayed towards the 1.9 TD!
Toby.
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