Cashbacks are of no benefit to a finance company. I've had 3 Citroen's with cashbacks and the cashback amount is always shown on the invoice as a deposit provided by Citroen UK.
"If they were honest they would just sell the things at three grand less."
Well effectively they are doing exactly that!
Its a simple marketing ploy - if people think they're getting a bargain they're more likely to buy. Plus reducing the list price could wreak havoc with used values.
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...Plus reducing the list price could wreak havoc with used values.
As residuals are usually quoted on list price - is the follwoing theory true (or at least close)?
New car list price £15K
cashback/discount £3K (or 20%)
Purchase price £12K
If the 1st years depreciation is 20% (of list price), then you have effectively had a "free" car for the year.
I'm sure it cant work like that....
Chad.
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I started a thread last year on this topic, only HJ replied. Citroen always has cashback or vat free, people are starting to see past the hype because sales a 15% down so far this year, despite having very new models.
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It seems to me that Citroen is only doing a public version of what other volume manufacturers do in private.
The likes of Ford and Vauxhall sell their cars at massive discounts to the big fleets. Private buyers paying anything near the retail price are being ripped off, but it's only in the last few years that they've been able to avoid it by using brokers.
Meanwhile, Citroen is offering serious discounts to its retail buyers. Those are the people who are forced by other makers to buy at artificially-inflated prices, to subsidise the fleets.
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It was Citroen who tried to give the impression they were reducing prices by 17.5 % when it was really 15 % with there no VAT gimmick.
Plenty of people mustfall for this kind of nonsense.
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"Plenty of people must fall for this kind of nonsense"
15% is a lot better than nowt!
Why was it only 15% with no VAT anyway?
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Why was it only 15% with no VAT anyway?
Because .....
Assume price before VAT is £10,000, then VAT inc price is £11,750 (increase of 17.5%).
However, like Citroen if you discount the "VAT amount" of £1750 from the list price of £11750 then you have a discount of only 15% (14.89%)
Chad.
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Oh well, I guess Citroen can't win - they didn't add on 17.5% to the pre tax price so we only saved 15%. Anyway, it makes no difference to most of you 'cos you wouldn't ever buy a French car would you - far too unreliable!!! (See Renault bashing thread!!)
No wonder my boss smiles when he gives me a 10% pay rise every alternate 6 months then takes 10% off me every other alternate 6 months. In a few years I'll be paying him!!
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Nowhere in any promotional material did Citroen state "17.5% discount off the list price of all our cars".
They stated they were giving "a cashback equivalent to the amount of VAT payable on the car".
Accusing that of being in some way underhand is being rather pedantic.
As for needing the cash back to fund repairs, if you're taking advantage of a cash back offer you'll also be getting 3 years warranty, so that argument is somewhat flawed.
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My experience of Peugeot/Citroen cars (one 306 XSi and two ZX) is that you need the "cash back" to help pay for subsequent breakages ~ 306 XSi bonnet hinge fractured, ZX 1.9l Volcane dipstick tube mounting bracket fractured. Peugeot/Citroen cars appear to be very flimsy. The dipstick tube bracket replacement (by the dealer) was particularly costly as it involved the heater having to be removed. I've never had a fracture occur on any other make. None of my cars are driven on anything other than normal roads so you can't blame abnormal usage.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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My Dad had a 1984 Ford Escort that snapped 2 timing belts in 10,000 miles, and cost him a fortune. So all Ford's are unreliable then?
The Mazda 323, 2 Peugeot 405's, Nissan Primera, Citroen Xsara, and his current Citroen C5 have not suffered this problem, so they must be very reliable cars according to the above logic.
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"Peugeot/Citroen cars appear to be very flimsy."
Which explains why, in the last 17 years I have had 5 different Cits, 2 of which have done over 150k, the others 90k, 70k and the newest 12k without having had a breakdown. Dipstick whatsit? have a look on any Cit message board and see if you can find another with that problem.
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"Peugeot/Citroen cars appear to be very flimsy."
Indeed, they may well not have doors which appear to weigh half a tonne and close with the sort of clunk that some motoring journalists seem to like in German cars.
But the apparent flimsiness is not a good predictor of crashworthiness (Reanult does v well there), and the German cars seem to have their fair share of reliability problems -- just read Jeremy Clarkson's rants about Mercedes
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As I have been told in this forum before, our 10 year old Xantia 1.9 TD doesn't count as any measure of reliability (except for us of course).
Maximum repair bill in 10 years - £300 (hydraulic pump).
Only other items replaced, other than standard maintenance items - front suspension link, front discs and rear suspension valve (although I suspect front discs probably count as standard maintenance items). We had valves fitted to the spheres at about 3 years, so we have never had the spheres replaced, just repressurised.
The engine is still wonderful after 103,000 miles, and has returned 600 miles per tank during the whole of the 10 years.
We also have a C5, which we have had for 17 months. The 2.2 HDI engine is superb, being very quiet and smooth. We have had a couple of minor items replaced on this - dip switch (under warranty) and temperature sensor. The kit on the car is terrific.
Citroen's are wonderful value for money, basically. C5s can be had with much more than the VAT reduction taken off on sites like www.drive the deal.com. They are also wonderful second hand value.
As for Picassos, well they are generally rated as good cars, so with £3000 cash back they are definitely wonderful value. Why complain about a reduction in price? As has been said, Citroen are offering the general public what only used to be offered to fleet operators.
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I think we can see who Citroen aim their offers at now machika.
To be fair Citroen have just indroduced a £1000 discount on the Picasso, the £2000 offer before this was just added to the original price so they could remove it. Its still not as good value as a Kia Carens however(which has a much better quality interior).
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"the £2000 offer before this was just added to the original price so they could remove it"
Evidence?
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I think we can see who Citroen aim their offers at now machika. To be fair Citroen have just indroduced a £1000 discount on the Picasso, the £2000 offer before this was just added to the original price so they could remove it. Its still not as good value as a Kia Carens however(which has a much better quality interior).
Sorry, you have lost me there, just who do they aim their offers at? I thought it was at the car buying public in general. It is not just me who thinks they are outstanding value for money.
They added £2000 to the original list price to take it off again? I think that would have been rather transparent. Actually, you can save over £4000 on the list price of the cheapest HDI model at www.drivethedeal.com. The net price for the cheapest Kia Carens 2.0 CDRT is only slightly less. Does the Kia have the Picasso's dynamic qualities?
I have read that the cabin quality in a Mondeo is much better than in a C5, but I can't quite see it myself. The Mondeo is mostly grey and black, like most of todays fare, and very drab with it. Same with the new Vectra and all VWs.
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I forgot to add, there is the little matter of a massive difference in mpg between a diesel Carens and the 2.0 HDI Picasso, with the Picasso better than the Carens by about 10 mpg.
The new 1.6 HDI is even more frugal, with better performance.
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I have read that the cabin quality in a Mondeo is much better than in a C5, but I can't quite see it myself. The Mondeo is mostly grey and black, like most of todays fare, and very drab with it. Same with the new Vectra and all VWs.
OK, the plastic used for the bits you don't touch may be better in the Mondeo, it is a boring car and the feel of the auxillary controls is appalling. The indicator and wiper stalk feel old, and the radio remote controls have been conveniently placed so that it is easier to just use the radio itself.
I won't even go into the comparison of the turbo diesel engines. The HDI is streets ahead of the TDCI I drove.
I suppose it is because Citroen won't offer fleets the same prices as Ford, but how many private C5's are there compared with Mondeos?
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I couldn't agree more about the HDI in comparison with Ford's TDCI, which has a gruffness about it in my opinion.
My wife and I did test drive a Mondeo TDCI before deciding on the C5 and, although there were many aspects of the Mondeo we liked, the difference between the engines was immediately apparent. The cabin of the Mondeo Zetec was very drab compared with the different textures and colours to be found in our C5. There was also the little matter of the price differential.
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Oh yes, the price. So you can get a better equipped C5 with a nicer engine, newer, lower mileage and cheaper than a Moandeo.
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OK, here's wot you do......
Buy a new Citroen at discount price.
Get any bugs fixed under warranty.
Keep the car for yonks (it will happily do astronomical mileages)so that depreciation is irrelevant.
Don't break the so-called 'flimsy' bits. (Things don't break in Citroens -they are broken by rough handling and /or ignorant maintenance at the hands of idiot drivers or idiot dealers.)
The non-flimsy bits (mechanicals) are actually very durable and robust - probably more so than your average Ford.
Live happily ever after, enjoying the cars' character, comfort, refinement, sophistication.......
Oh - one other thing! Keep on moaning publicly about the dreadful reliability of French cars, horrendous repair bills, spiralling depreciation. That will serve to keep Cits out of the hands of the unwashed plebs.....
:-) :-)
Graeme
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OK, here's wot you do...... Buy a new Citroen at discount price.
[snip]
I have a few friends who do exactly that, and run their Citroëns for 8-10 years of very comfortable motoring. They all have much nicer houses than those who repeat-buy the expensive cars :)
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