Ford - phone - clarify

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
View Threaded
Mon 10 Jul 2023 13:05
Ford - phone - clarify - johnmazda

Clearly we know that we cannot have the phone in our hands but the wording it uses is according to gov.uk is as follows -

It’s illegal to hold and use a phone, sat nav, tablet, or any device that can send or receive data, while driving or riding a motorcycle. This means you must not use a device in your hand for any reason, whether online or offline.

As we also know, it’s fine to use devices with hands-free access, as long as you do not hold them at any time during usage. So this includes a dashboard mount or holder, vent holder etc.

So my question is what about then if your phone was mounted, are you allowed to tap/touch it, e.g. declining a phone call or zooming in on the map etc.? The reason I ask is I was in 3 ubers last week and in every journey they were tapping on their phone whilst it was mounted, either declining a pick request or just zooming in on the map to check the destination. It needs to be clarified because as above the official wording says “hold and use” and “you must not have the device in your hand.” So technically then, it is ok to use your device as long as it’s not in your hand, i.e. mounted on the windscreen or vent like many do??

And from a legal perspective, the court has to prove beyond any doubt that you were using your phone. You can easily say you were just tapping buttons on the dashboard or switching off the A/C etc.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 10 Jul 2023 13:28
Ford - phone - clarify - FP

My understanding is that, if the phone is in a mount, you are not holding it in your hand.

Touching it is fine as long as it stays in the mount.

That seems perfectly clear to me and I don't understand what "needs to be clarified".

Edited by FP on 10/07/2023 at 13:29

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 10 Jul 2023 14:49
Ford - phone - clarify - daveyjp
As above. The law is clear. Hold a phone to use it whilst driving and it can get expensive.

Use a holder and no issues as the phone then mimics millions of cars with touch screens.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 10 Jul 2023 14:57
Ford - phone - clarify - Bromptonaut

If you go back to the legislation it's crystal clear that the issue is having the phone in your hand. It's repeated in the Highway Code:

www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

Mine is mounted on the screen but either by Bluetooth or the Android Auto App it integrates with the car.

The trap that's caught plenty is picking it up if it drops out of its mount.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 10/07/2023 at 15:39

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 10 Jul 2023 16:13
Ford - phone - clarify - Middleman

The legislation actually says this:

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point whilst being used.

So, a phone in a holder does not need to be held at some point to use it. Therefore tapping the screen whilst it is in the holder does not contravene the legislation.

And from a legal perspective, the court has to prove beyond any doubt that you were using your phone.

It’s actually the prosecution who has to prove it to the court. And not beyond any doubt but beyond reasonable doubt (or in modern parlance “so that [the court] is sure.”). There is a difference.

You can easily say you were just tapping buttons on the dashboard or switching off the A/C etc.

Indeed you can. But tapping buttons on a (mounted) phone is no more not illegal (in itself - you can still be prosecuted for careless driving or not being in proper control) than tapping buttons on the screen display provided in the vehicle. The police would have to prove that the driver was using a hand-held phone (definition above).

Reply | Report as offensive | Link