Toyota EV batteries

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 12:46
Toyota EV batteries - Adampr

Here's one for the 'Toyota don't believe in EVs' camp and those all-important people who like to drive 700 miles in one go.

www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-cl...s

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 13:19
Toyota EV batteries - alan1302

Here's one for the 'Toyota don't believe in EVs' camp and those all-important people who like to drive 700 miles in one go.

www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-cl...s

Assuming these do come to the market - they do pretty much clear up the issues of EVs for most people. Enough range for pretty much anyones UK drive without a stop as well as quick charging.

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 14:34
Toyota EV batteries - kiss (keep it simple)

Having a good range solves one of the problems, but to charge up in 10 minutes requires a huge increase in power which is unlikely to become widely available for the foreseeable future. No doubt the chargers will be super premium priced on holiday weekends for those in a hurry!

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 17:21
Toyota EV batteries - Terry W

It makes no difference to the total power requirement whether there is 1 vehicle getting a (say) 300kw charge or 6 vehicles getting a 50kw charge.

The single vehicle will charge a 50kwh battery in 10 mins, the six vehicles will charge their 50kwh batteries in an hour (an average of 10mins per vehicle).

That commercial fast chargers may come with a premium cost may be largely an irrelevancy - most people could charge at home or elsewhere at a far slower charge rate (eg: overnight), requiring expensive commercial fast charging only on occasional longer trips.

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 21:37
Toyota EV batteries - alan1302

Having a good range solves one of the problems, but to charge up in 10 minutes requires a huge increase in power which is unlikely to become widely available for the foreseeable future. No doubt the chargers will be super premium priced on holiday weekends for those in a hurry!

The majority of people won't need to charge in 10 minutes though - they will top it up at services or overnight but they don't always need a fast charge. I can fast charge my smartphone but always charge it slower overnight but if I needed to I can charge it in 30mins.

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 18:03
Toyota EV batteries - Engineer Andy

Here's one for the 'Toyota don't believe in EVs' camp and those all-important people who like to drive 700 miles in one go.

www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-cl...s

Assuming these do come to the market - they do pretty much clear up the issues of EVs for most people. Enough range for pretty much anyones UK drive without a stop as well as quick charging.

The word 'could' rather than 'are' is cautionary to me, as will likely be the price of any vehicle with said tech in it, given what it says later on in the article. All too often, promises of new tech come and go. So much for EVs being 'affordable for the masses' the cut-off date of 2030...

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 18:43
Toyota EV batteries - SLO76
“ All too often, promises of new tech come and go. So much for EVs being 'affordable for the masses' the cut-off date of 2030...”

I predict that the 2030 cut off date will slip. It was overly ambitious but it may well have served a purpose in forcing manufacturers to pour money into battery tech.
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Wed 5 Jul 2023 19:31
Toyota EV batteries - Engineer Andy
“ All too often, promises of new tech come and go. So much for EVs being 'affordable for the masses' the cut-off date of 2030...” I predict that the 2030 cut off date will slip. It was overly ambitious but it may well have served a purpose in forcing manufacturers to pour money into battery tech.

The problem is that it was seeming done at a time when policy makers of all hues must've known that a prolonged inflationary period was upon the world (especially industrialised nations) and that doing this sort of thing would just make motoring even more expensive and the preseve of the very well-heeled as nations were forced into transitioning from ICE to electric.

Given the lack of car sales generally, and seemingly EV sales at best levelling off after the initial surge during 2021-22 (I've read articles stating that VAG are seriously worried now about oversupply due to stagnating EV sales) - presumably because most people who can afford an expensive new car and especially an even more expensive EV (not many second hand affordable ones around or that ordinary people can make use of) have now bought one.

The rest (myself included) are currently having to make do with their existing ICE car as they cannot afford to replace it. It's all well and good new tech coming along, but if the prices aren't attracting the level of custom as before, then those government-mandated 'sales targets' for EVs each year until 2030 are only going to be achieved by artificially holding off sales of ICE cars (especially lower end models) to keep the percentage of EVs sold above the minimum required. Also not helped by ever-increasing emissions and safety rules which are pricing out smaller / lower specced ICE cars.

This will inevitably cause car manufacturers big losses because of oversupply and may not bring in sufficient revenues / profits *due to much lower sales volumes) to pay for the R&D needed for the next gen EVs that might be cheaper to build and have better range rivalling ICE. I wouldn't be suprised (especially when the inevitable big recession comes [I've been surprised it hasn't arrived already]) that a good few car firms go under in the next 5-10 years, leaving just a dozen major players controlling the market, mainly supplying cars to the well-off.

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 18:40
Toyota EV batteries - SLO76
I just posted the very same thing myself. Toyota are known for being a bit cautious and for not rushing in with new tech until it’s right. Looks like they’ve been working away behind the scenes to make pure battery vehicles viable for the masses - if what they’re suggesting here comes true. If they can make a genuine 250 - 350 mile range vehicle that can charge in under 10/15 mins and cost £25k or less then they’ll dominate the marketplace.

I find our Leaf with its real life range of 130/140 miles ok for 99% of what we need from it but the long charging time is its biggest downside. Otherwise I’m quite happy with it and I certainly would buy a Toyota EV with a better range and lower charge time. If they get this right then it will make going electric mainstream without much resistance.
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Tue 4 Jul 2023 19:09
Toyota EV batteries - paul 1963

Personally SLO, having just read your post elsewhere I think Toyota have already entered the full ev market albeit via the back door, our company E Berlingo fleet clearly have the stylized Toyota 'T' on all the major under bonnet components, pictures upon request!

On the the charge time thing, all current battery chemistry types, lipo, life, nmhi etc enjoy a much longer lifespan if charged slowly, yes they are all capable of being fast charged but it does effect there longevity, I muck around with rc cars and know from experience that a battery that is discharged to just above storage level ( 3.7/3.6 volts per cell) and then slowly recharged will have a much longer lifespan and give far better performance than a battery pack that is constantly only partially discharged then fast charged to capacity.

I know in the model world you can get chargers ( I've got one) that 'cycle' battery packs, they slowly discharge to storage level then slowly recharge to full capacity repeatabley, they can in most cases rescue a effectively dead pack, not sure if such a thing exists in the real car world?

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 19:53
Toyota EV batteries - sammy1

I wonder in the real world a company EV fast charged ever day or every other day how long its battery will last once it enters the second hand market after 3 years. Does any one really know yet?

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Tue 4 Jul 2023 23:42
Toyota EV batteries - Terry W
I wonder in the real world a company EV fast charged ever day or every other day how long its battery will last once it enters the second hand market after 3 years. Does any one really know yet?

Autotrader has 45000 cars registered in 2020 for sale.

Of those 43000 have done less than 50000 miles. Only 2000 have done more mileage representing a minor risk in terms of overall battery wear.

To cover 50000 in 3 years is ~16000 pa = 300 miles per week

Assuming recharged every 200 miles would mean charging every 5 days not daily. Some or most of these would be on slow not very fast chargers.

More fear mongering rather than rational observation.

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Wed 5 Jul 2023 10:16
Toyota EV batteries - sammy1
I wonder in the real world a company EV fast charged ever day or every other day how long its battery will last once it enters the second hand market after 3 years. Does any one really know yet?

Autotrader has 45000 cars registered in 2020 for sale.

Of those 43000 have done less than 50000 miles. Only 2000 have done more mileage representing a minor risk in terms of overall battery wear.

To cover 50000 in 3 years is ~16000 pa = 300 miles per week

Assuming recharged every 200 miles would mean charging every 5 days not daily. Some or most of these would be on slow not very fast chargers.

More fear mongering rather than rational observation.

Autotrader is only one of many car advertisers. Dealers and Car Supermarkets tend to have cars that they retail direct on the forecourt or advertised on their own websites. A lot of private commuters easily do 300 miles a week. Your company driver perhaps easily double that. 200miles a day for some Whatever the company man would be charging is Tesla or whatever quite a lot until a cars range vastly improves. Do you have enough confidence to buy a high mileage EV, not I given the vast choice of cars available..

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Wed 5 Jul 2023 16:50
Toyota EV batteries - Terry W

Autotrader is only one of many car advertisers. Dealers and Car Supermarkets tend to have cars that they retail direct on the forecourt or advertised on their own websites. A lot of private commuters easily do 300 miles a week. Your company driver perhaps easily double that. 200miles a day for some Whatever the company man would be charging is Tesla or whatever quite a lot until a cars range vastly improves. Do you have enough confidence to buy a high mileage EV, not I given the vast choice of cars available.

Autotrader is a fairly major advertiser - and the conclusions broadly aligned with other unrelated research:

Some do much higher mileages - they are the exception. I would be wary of buying an ex-rep 3 year old ICE with 80k on the clock - just as I would with a similar mileage EV.

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Wed 5 Jul 2023 17:51
Toyota EV batteries - sammy1

Well we were talking fleet cars which do well over average miles. As regards a high mileage ICE car 3 years old these can be a very good buy at the right price They have been well run in often under less stress doing motorway miles and buy one keep it a few years and you end up with an average mileage car.

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Wed 5 Jul 2023 11:37
Toyota EV batteries - Bolt

I wonder in the real world a company EV fast charged ever day or every other day how long its battery will last once it enters the second hand market after 3 years. Does any one really know yet?

Battery charging is in the hands of the computer which checks the state of the cells so if any cells are down the computer charges the battery according to how good the cells are, ie if some cells are down the charger will only be allowed to charge at a certain rate so as not to damage cells even more

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Wed 5 Jul 2023 06:50
Toyota EV batteries - Bolt

Looks like they’ve been working away behind the scenes to make pure battery vehicles viable for the masses - if what they’re suggesting here comes true. If they can make a genuine 250 - 350 mile range vehicle that can charge in under 10/15 mins and cost £25k or less then they’ll dominate the marketplace.

reports say they have been working behind the scenes, same with Hydrogen which they appear to be getting somewhere with as they have all teamed up.

Toyota and others have said they do not believe the future is all EVs and want to give greater choice and models to the people, I hope they succeed

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If you cover no more than 100 miles per day and have easy access to a charging point at home or work, then an EV is ideal for you.

Is an electric car right for me?