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""""The predicted cycle life of some recent EVs, particularly those using LFP batteries implies a 15 year old EV might actually have a lot of life left in it."""
I am not sure if this is fact but it suggests if true car manufacturers are on the way to bankruptcy making cars to last that long when the only thing which will hasten their demise is a write off rather than a mechanical failure. Garages too are in for les woek with EVs if reliable
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""""The predicted cycle life of some recent EVs, particularly those using LFP batteries implies a 15 year old EV might actually have a lot of life left in it."""
I am not sure if this is fact but it suggests if true car manufacturers are on the way to bankruptcy making cars to last that long when the only thing which will hasten their demise is a write off rather than a mechanical failure. Garages too are in for les woek with EVs if reliable
15 year old ICE often have a lot of life left in them to...does that mean the manufacturers are bankrupt already?
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""""The predicted cycle life of some recent EVs, particularly those using LFP batteries implies a 15 year old EV might actually have a lot of life left in it."""
I am not sure if this is fact but it suggests if true car manufacturers are on the way to bankruptcy making cars to last that long when the only thing which will hasten their demise is a write off rather than a mechanical failure. Garages too are in for les woek with EVs if reliable
15 year old ICE often have a lot of life left in them to...does that mean the manufacturers are bankrupt already?
No of course not but I am given to understand that the EV car will have a greater life span than your ICE as the EV has less components to go wrong and hopefully but certainly no guarantee will be a lot more reliable, again that is what I read into things
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<< ... I am given to understand that the EV car will have a greater life span than your ICE as the EV has less components to go wrong and hopefully but certainly no guarantee will be a lot more reliable ... >>
The life span of a car is usually determined by whether it remains 'desirable', meaning it has a potential buyer. Plenty of elderly cars are still usable but are seen by their owners as almost worthless because they can't sell them - so those cars may get scrapped. You have only to look at HowManyLeft website for 20 or 30-year-old cars to see that maybe 75% of those still registered are on SORN, so presumably still potentially usable.
I would assume EVs would age in the same way ?
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<< ... I am given to understand that the EV car will have a greater life span than your ICE as the EV has less components to go wrong and hopefully but certainly no guarantee will be a lot more reliable ... >>
The life span of a car is usually determined by whether it remains 'desirable', meaning it has a potential buyer. Plenty of elderly cars are still usable but are seen by their owners as almost worthless because they can't sell them - so those cars may get scrapped. You have only to look at HowManyLeft website for 20 or 30-year-old cars to see that maybe 75% of those still registered are on SORN, so presumably still potentially usable.
I would assume EVs would age in the same way ?
Old cars are in general undesirable because the run of the mill majority are seen as clapped out and therefor only fir for scrap. The history of combustion cars is well documented and rare models are highly desirable and change hands for thousands. So called barn finds are being sold for big money still and in general many old cars are as loved by some as the steam engine.
I just cannot see the public having the same affection for bland EVs. They do not seem to have any individualism about them, a massed produced battery and motor. Not a skilled and engineered engine and gearbox which is unique as in the older Ice Maybe the odd first model EV will command affection such as Genevieve and others on the London to Brighton in another 50 years who really knows
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<< The history of combustion cars is well documented and rare models are highly desirable and change hands for thousands. So called barn finds are being sold for big money still and in general many old cars are as loved by some as the steam engine. >>
But that scenario fluctuates. You probably know that the 'best' restored 205 GTI cars can now fetch over £20K. Back in 2006 I bought one with 46K on the clock for £1850, selling it three years later for the same money. Some of that effect will be scarcity value, of course, but at the time few people were looking for them. Fashion rules.
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I just cannot see the public having the same affection for bland EVs. They do not seem to have any individualism about them, a massed produced battery and motor. Not a skilled and engineered engine and gearbox which is unique as in the older Ice Maybe the odd first model EV will command affection such as Genevieve and others on the London to Brighton in another 50 years who really knows
With the possible exception of high performance luxury motors, most ICE cars lost any obviously identifiable brand characteristics decades ago.
They are designed on the same software, for the same world markets, using common materials, to common standards. using similar production processes etc. It needs a badge to differentiate between different manufacturers.
Manufacturers can modify suspension and steering to give a different feel to the driving experience, change interior materials, adorn both inside and outside with "trinkets". But blindfolded in the passenger seat most would be hard pressed to differentiate.
Gone are the days when offerings from (say) Ford, BMW, Peugeot, Citroen, were distinctive.
Most EV, like ICE, will only be distinctive at the very top and bottom of the market. The rest (like ICE) are "white goods" which will be selected by mostly superficial perceptions, cost and performance envelope (range, seats, luggage space)
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""""n this regard, it is worth noting that some governments are taking steps to support the adoption of electric vehicles by offering rebates and incentives for installing home chargers. These initiatives help alleviate the burden of charging infrastructure development on individual car owners and encourage the widespread installation of charging stations in residential areas. It is crucial for more governments to follow suit and provide financial incentives to promote the growth of a robust charging network."""
I am not convinced that the UK gov should get more involved in subsidies. It is the tax payers money and I for one think my taxes are better spent elsewhere. The UK Gov already gave the industry an early start. If people want EVs let them pay or the car manufacturer pay for HOME chargers, at the moment they are boasting they are paying peanuts to home charge. As far as public chargers are concerned it is a capital investment for the charger companies. They are doing the costing and ultimately will reap the reward
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Governments raise money to fund public services and modify behaviours in the public interest. They have clearly decided that transition to EV is a strategy they wish to support.
Arguing on the basis of "fairness" is a waste of time. We are fortunate to live in a democracy and vote for the party which best represents your views, or even stand for election yourself.
Longer term when the transition has become "unstoppable" I agree subsidies should be withdrawn - probably in 3-5 years time.
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Many people cannot find a party who they agree with. I believe most people don't want EVs or indeed can afford one yet where is there a party that would stop this road to EV only? The EV plan is autocracy, the powers that be have made their minds up and that's it.
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Governments raise money to fund public services and modify behaviours in the public interest.
Talk about a naive view. They act in their own interests and of those who back and 'inflence them via money and other ways, which as we constant have seen for the past 30 years, and likely a lot longer, not in the interests of the general; public.
They have clearly decided that transition to EV is a strategy they wish to support.
No, people from big business and powerful lobby / corporate funding groups (many of whom hold the purstrings and now corporate governance of such organisations) 'encourage' them to do X or Y and they do as they are told, because without such moves, their 'support' - amplified by the controlled MSM, is withdrawn.
Go off message, as Boris did after the tories won in Dec 2019, and you're taken down.
Arguing on the basis of "fairness" is a waste of time. We are fortunate to live in a democracy and vote for the party which best represents your views, or even stand for election yourself.
Democracy in name only you mean. All the major political parties are now just the controlled (Uni) Paarty of Davos in various flavours. Heads they win, tails we lose.
And when was the last time a true independent (not some celeb or well-known journo) stood for parliament and won, not just because of our electoral system (most others in the West are as bad or worse, depending upon the situation), but because you cannot win unless you have a big financial backing, or you are already famous (and likely rich) or you have the backing of The Establishment and media?
Longer term when the transition has become "unstoppable" I agree subsidies should be withdrawn - probably in 3-5 years time.
I presume that's after you've bought an EV and home charger installation? In my view, I'd put good money on 99% of those who've already bought or will be buying an EV and home charger installation will easily be able to afford the full, unsubsidised cost.
I seriously doubt if the purchase cost of either (and not just because the vast majority of EVs on sale are large, sports / luxury vehicles) EV or home charger point will be 'affordable for the masses.
But then why would that concern those who can easily afford them. After all soon their clogged roads will once again by Serf-free, when the number of ICE cars available drops as they age out and people cannot afford even 5 year old second hand ones, not just because they are upper trim hybrids that originally cost twice as much as they would've paid for a pure ICE just a few years before.
Well, at least bus manufacturers will be busy. What a wonderful future us Serfs have to look forward to. Maybe I should practice tugging my forlock to the well-to-do when they pass me in the big EV?
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Unless we serfs do a Watt Tyler then I fear you are right. I plain don ‘t want a battery car.
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Well, at least bus manufacturers will be busy.
even they wont be able to get about as massive EVs take over the roads, they can`t get about now because the drivers have a job to control them and cause congestion because they are too big for our streets.
most cannot pass a parked car because they fear hitting the car coming the other way so stop until the traffic clears leaving tailbacks because they cannot move, yet smaller to medium cars fly through
I can see gridlocked roads with EVs, its getting like it already....
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Well, at least bus manufacturers will be busy.
even they wont be able to get about as massive EVs take over the roads, they can`t get about now because the drivers have a job to control them and cause congestion because they are too big for our streets.
most cannot pass a parked car because they fear hitting the car coming the other way so stop until the traffic clears leaving tailbacks because they cannot move, yet smaller to medium cars fly through
I can see gridlocked roads with EVs, its getting like it already....
What has how a car is powered got to do with its size?
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Well, at least bus manufacturers will be busy.
even they wont be able to get about as massive EVs take over the roads, they can`t get about now because the drivers have a job to control them and cause congestion because they are too big for our streets.
most cannot pass a parked car because they fear hitting the car coming the other way so stop until the traffic clears leaving tailbacks because they cannot move, yet smaller to medium cars fly through
I can see gridlocked roads with EVs, its getting like it already....
Apparently there is a report doing the rounds featuring yet another 'World Econimic Forum' policy doument (that every Western government and 'mainstream' political party blindly adopts without question) that wants 75% fewer car owners by 2050.
We all know which car owners they are referring to, and it ain't the well off. No wonder they don't care how the Plebs will charge their clapped out EVs they can only afford.
"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
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Well, at least bus manufacturers will be busy.
even they wont be able to get about as massive EVs take over the roads, they can`t get about now because the drivers have a job to control them and cause congestion because they are too big for our streets.
most cannot pass a parked car because they fear hitting the car coming the other way so stop until the traffic clears leaving tailbacks because they cannot move, yet smaller to medium cars fly through
I can see gridlocked roads with EVs, its getting like it already....
Apparently there is a report doing the rounds featuring yet another 'World Econimic Forum' policy doument (that every Western government and 'mainstream' political party blindly adopts without question) that wants 75% fewer car owners by 2050.
We all know which car owners they are referring to, and it ain't the well off. No wonder they don't care how the Plebs will charge their clapped out EVs they can only afford.
"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Once I get to the age where I can get a free bus pass I'm going to ditch the car and just hire one for holidays.
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
Sorry Alan, you've used up your CO2 allocation - woul;d you like to pay £1000 to buy another 100 miles of driving?
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
Whevener it starts, it'll be too late to do anything for the masses. Don't come complaining when you can't go on holiday etc any more. This is only to the benefit for the rich and powerful, gradually removing the Plebs from the roads and skies.
Do you have a pair of repairable walking boots, a tent and a big rucksack? :-)
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
Sorry Alan, you've used up your CO2 allocation - woul;d you like to pay £1000 to buy another 100 miles of driving?
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
Whevener it starts, it'll be too late to do anything for the masses. Don't come complaining when you can't go on holiday etc any more. This is only to the benefit for the rich and powerful, gradually removing the Plebs from the roads and skies.
Do you have a pair of repairable walking boots, a tent and a big rucksack? :-)
Serious question - if they are all powerful and governments just do what they say...why have they let us 'plebs' get all the stuff we have now when they don't want us to have any of it?
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
Sorry Alan, you've used up your CO2 allocation - woul;d you like to pay £1000 to buy another 100 miles of driving?
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
Whevener it starts, it'll be too late to do anything for the masses. Don't come complaining when you can't go on holiday etc any more. This is only to the benefit for the rich and powerful, gradually removing the Plebs from the roads and skies.
Do you have a pair of repairable walking boots, a tent and a big rucksack? :-)
Serious question - if they are all powerful and governments just do what they say...why have they let us 'plebs' get all the stuff we have now when they don't want us to have any of it?
Th best way to get major change is to do so by stealth over a reasonable period, but using 'justificationbs' that the people either haven't got the time or don't have the power to challenge without pushback from so-called 'experts' - most of whom are in the pocket of the government and/or powerful vested interests who are the very ones pushing for said changes - that benefit them and no-one else.
If they just banned X or Y today, the public pushback would be so great that they'd be a revolution and all of those involved strung up.
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
Sorry Alan, you've used up your CO2 allocation - woul;d you like to pay £1000 to buy another 100 miles of driving?
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
Whevener it starts, it'll be too late to do anything for the masses. Don't come complaining when you can't go on holiday etc any more. This is only to the benefit for the rich and powerful, gradually removing the Plebs from the roads and skies.
Do you have a pair of repairable walking boots, a tent and a big rucksack? :-)
Serious question - if they are all powerful and governments just do what they say...why have they let us 'plebs' get all the stuff we have now when they don't want us to have any of it?
Th best way to get major change is to do so by stealth over a reasonable period, but using 'justificationbs' that the people either haven't got the time or don't have the power to challenge without pushback from so-called 'experts' - most of whom are in the pocket of the government and/or powerful vested interests who are the very ones pushing for said changes - that benefit them and no-one else.
If they just banned X or Y today, the public pushback would be so great that they'd be a revolution and all of those involved strung up.
But why have they left it so it needs to be a major change? Surely if they knew what they were doing they would have limited car use before everyone had one. I have a sneaking feeling they are not as powerful as you think they are.
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"You'll own nothing, rent everything and be happy" (before that video was sneakily taken down by the WEF)...
Not fussed if I buy or rent as long as I'm happy ;-)
Sorry Alan, you've used up your CO2 allocation - woul;d you like to pay £1000 to buy another 100 miles of driving?
You would have thought as it was from last year the government would have already implemented it. When are they going to start?
Whevener it starts, it'll be too late to do anything for the masses. Don't come complaining when you can't go on holiday etc any more. This is only to the benefit for the rich and powerful, gradually removing the Plebs from the roads and skies.
Do you have a pair of repairable walking boots, a tent and a big rucksack? :-)
Serious question - if they are all powerful and governments just do what they say...why have they let us 'plebs' get all the stuff we have now when they don't want us to have any of it?
Th best way to get major change is to do so by stealth over a reasonable period, but using 'justificationbs' that the people either haven't got the time or don't have the power to challenge without pushback from so-called 'experts' - most of whom are in the pocket of the government and/or powerful vested interests who are the very ones pushing for said changes - that benefit them and no-one else.
If they just banned X or Y today, the public pushback would be so great that they'd be a revolution and all of those involved strung up.
But why have they left it so it needs to be a major change? Surely if they knew what they were doing they would have limited car use before everyone had one. I have a sneaking feeling they are not as powerful as you think they are.
They found that changing things - if needed at all - by persuasion using facts wasn't cutting it, mainly because people didn't believe them or take notice, so they've invented multiple 'crises' to say 'it has left us no choice but to...'
Remember Build Back Better - funny how every major Western government used that slogan literally overnight.
It's not governments and the politicians / officials who are the powerful ones - they are just paid lackies and (for some) sychophants / fellow 'travellers' who work for the real 'power behind the curtain', as I've stated before.
It's why, when pressed few politicians or officials can justufy what they're doing, and why effectively'buying' the MSM was a masterstroke, because it efficectly shuts down all questioning and debate, as does the same with social media.
Unfortunately most of the general public would rather scrap over the remaining crumbs of freedom, illusions of wealth and decadent lifestyles for a few years, doing the 'I see no ships' routine as regards all these issues (and I don't meaning waking up to 'climate change', etc etc).
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It's not governments and the politicians / officials who are the powerful ones - they are just paid lackies and (for some) sychophants / fellow 'travellers' who work for the real 'power behind the curtain', as I've stated before.
change', etc etc).
You've not answered the question - I'm asking why those who are behind the curtain have let things get like they have done when they don't want it that way. If they are so powerful why don't they get things done better for themselves?
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It might fry your brain like they thought phones would do as there will be a lot more energy whizzing around in my non technical speak!
Induction charging is limited in transmission so unlikely to cause problems and doesn`t actually do so until a receiver is sensed, ie when a car stops on top of the transmitter, so auto shuts off when the receiver moves off, and the further the EV away from the sender the weaker the transmission- like mobile phones if not centred on the charger
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It might fry your brain like they thought phones would do as there will be a lot more energy whizzing around in my non technical speak!
Induction charging is limited in transmission so unlikely to cause problems and doesn`t actually do so until a receiver is sensed, ie when a car stops on top of the transmitter, so auto shuts off when the receiver moves off, and the further the EV away from the sender the weaker the transmission- like mobile phones if not centred on the charger
OK thank you for the explanation. Of long term concern of mine is also being near to the electro magnetic fields of EVs let alone sitting on top of one. The boffins seem to suggest it is safe but they some got it wrong on diesel emissions. I wonder does anyone know if EVs can affect pacemakers just of of interest.
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Which - the consumer advice folk have done a report showing the loss of battery performance is minimal up to 10 years old - less than 10%. There are probably too few EVs before then to conduct a meaningful survey.
As a publication they tend to be fairly reliable and objective.
I am inclined to believe that concerns of battery failure (most manufacturers guarantee ~8 years) or degradation exceeding 50% ++ are ill-founded to put it nicely. Complete garbage would be a better way to express it.
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I am inclined to believe that concerns of battery failure (most manufacturers guarantee ~8 years) or degradation exceeding 50% ++ are ill-founded to put it nicely. Complete garbage would be a better way to express it.
Put it how you like, but there is no 100% guarantee anything will not break down, all parts even batteries have a specified failure rate, which, although depending on batteries have no guarantee they will last a lifetime (whatever that is)
they can only give a time or warranty based on there findings and probably to get there had many failures, batteries are in there infancy at the moment and not been tested as long as would be liked by some. its those you have to convince they are or will last a long time which could be difficult after the E scooter burn outs and some bikes
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Which - the consumer advice folk have done a report showing the loss of battery performance is minimal up to 10 years old - less than 10%. There are probably too few EVs before then to conduct a meaningful survey.
As a publication they tend to be fairly reliable and objective.
IMHO they used to be. Like many mainstream media publications, I think that both their journalistic standards have dropped and they're pushing towards 'activism' in some of their work, though not to the extent of newspapers. And yes, I have actually read them (in my local library for reseach on various purchases.
Not sure how Which could accurately do such tests, given you need lots of vehicles and which have been used in different ways (journey types) for a range of make and models - something which (pardon the pun) they a) likely don't have the money to fund, and b) don't have the selection of cars to choose from, given 10 years ago the total number of EVs was very small and limited to a handful of makes/models.
I am inclined to believe that concerns of battery failure (most manufacturers guarantee ~8 years) or degradation exceeding 50% ++ are ill-founded to put it nicely. Complete garbage would be a better way to express it.
I've read many reports / accounts from owners of EVs and others who state that the pre-2017-ish cars had significant battery degredation however they were driven, but afteards, things improved due to better battery tech (including adding or improvements in cooling), but that degredation is only at the really low levels you stated when the cars are predominantly used for longer distance driving and only used / charged between 20-80% capacity, which effectively limits the real-world range to 60% of the 'official' figure - and that's when it's brand new.
It's likely that many owners will be somewhat naive and both charge their car to much nearer 100% (not sure whether all chargers have some kind of overcharging protection once the battery is at 100% fully charged - more likely newer and commercial ones) and to either let the charge go well below 20% or charge it up more often, thus reducing the effective range.
In addition, the (rea; world) long term effect of ultra fast charging on the batteries presumably has yet to be discovered, given the same issues I referred to with a lack of test vehicles. That is a problem with household rechargeable batteries, so we'll just have to wait and see.
The above is why I am far more catious about the (IMHO overly positive) 'claims' of EV manufacturers and mainstream media journalists (many oif whom are not experts and often whose income [individually or their employer] relies heavily on ad revenue from the very companies whose products they test.
Obviously Which? are not in that bracket as regards revenues, but as I said, I can't believe that their subscription model would be able to fund sufficient car purchases to be able to put together a viable study. Just my opinion though.
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It's likely that many owners will be somewhat naive and both charge their car to much nearer 100% (not sure whether all chargers have some kind of overcharging protection once the battery is at 100% fully charged - more likely newer and commercial ones) and to either let the charge go well below 20% or charge it up more often, thus reducing the effective range.
In addition, the (rea; world) long term effect of ultra fast charging on the batteries presumably has yet to be discovered, given the same issues I referred to with a lack of test vehicles. That is a problem with household rechargeable batteries, so we'll just have to wait and see.
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I've seen enough abused ~100K miles ex-taxis EVs floating around the trade which have no doubt been treated with contempt by their "owner" and fast charged to 100% every day still doing fine on battery to be fairly convinced thus far. In theory the onboard battery management should take care of looking after the battery most of the time.
I'm no big EV advocate but I am not particularly scared of them either. There are big challenges around a number of areas, particularly charging for long distance drivers and those without somewhere to charge, but I am fairly convinced major battery degradation isn't going to be much of an issue.
Incidentally the LFP batteries used in cheaper cars can be very safely charged to 100% and in fact apparently benefit from it.
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Renault are the veterans of EV usage, and they have realms of data re charging.
Initially, customers typically charge every day ‘just to be sure’. Then there’s a realisation that they don’t need to, and charging frequency diminishes.
Best advice is to charge to 90% on an AC charger, but if you know you’ve got a long journey then it won’t come to any harm charging to 100%. There’ll be a setting in the car to limit the charge level.
On a rapid, DC, point, get it to 80% and get going. If you need another stop, it’ll be quicker to do a 10 minute ‘volt and bolt’ than waiting for a car to charge from 80-100% as the charge rate decreases.
We’ve almost certainly being over protective in terms of battery charging/discharging, but in the overall scale of things it’s early days.
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It might fry your brain like they thought phones would do as there will be a lot more energy whizzing around in my non technical speak!
Induction charging is limited in transmission so unlikely to cause problems and doesn`t actually do so until a receiver is sensed, ie when a car stops on top of the transmitter, so auto shuts off when the receiver moves off, and the further the EV away from the sender the weaker the transmission- like mobile phones if not centred on the charger
OK thank you for the explanation. Of long term concern of mine is also being near to the electro magnetic fields of EVs let alone sitting on top of one. The boffins seem to suggest it is safe but they some got it wrong on diesel emissions. I wonder does anyone know if EVs can affect pacemakers just of of interest.
Are high power electric vehicle chargers safe for patients with cardiac devices? (escardio.org)
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It might fry your brain like they thought phones would do as there will be a lot more energy whizzing around in my non technical speak!
Induction charging is limited in transmission so unlikely to cause problems and doesn`t actually do so until a receiver is sensed, ie when a car stops on top of the transmitter, so auto shuts off when the receiver moves off, and the further the EV away from the sender the weaker the transmission- like mobile phones if not centred on the charger
OK thank you for the explanation. Of long term concern of mine is also being near to the electro magnetic fields of EVs let alone sitting on top of one. The boffins seem to suggest it is safe but they some got it wrong on diesel emissions. I wonder does anyone know if EVs can affect pacemakers just of of interest.
Are high power electric vehicle chargers safe for patients with cardiac devices? (escardio.org)
Thanks again, My nephew is a paramedic called to accidents frequently and I expect he has been briefed in this area. I note reading the findings their are a few precautions to be aware of
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How about ringfencing a penny a litre from the petrol duty. To go to a fund to install and maintain more 50kwh charge points. Ultimately the people who pay for it will benefit in the long run. Though personally I haven't needed public chargers at all, I do appreciate not everyone is as fortunate as myself. Having a parking spot (garage) with a fitted power point. Mind you I paid to build the garage, paid to run the power, paid to fit the charger. So how much of that is fortune luck vs planning and foresight.
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It might fry your brain like they thought phones would do as there will be a lot more energy whizzing around in my non technical speak!
Induction charging is limited in transmission so unlikely to cause problems and doesn`t actually do so until a receiver is sensed, ie when a car stops on top of the transmitter, so auto shuts off when the receiver moves off, and the further the EV away from the sender the weaker the transmission- like mobile phones if not centred on the charger
OK thank you for the explanation. Of long term concern of mine is also being near to the electro magnetic fields of EVs let alone sitting on top of one. The boffins seem to suggest it is safe but they some got it wrong on diesel emissions. I wonder does anyone know if EVs can affect pacemakers just of of interest.
Are high power electric vehicle chargers safe for patients with cardiac devices? (escardio.org)
Thanks again, My nephew is a paramedic called to accidents frequently and I expect he has been briefed in this area. I note reading the findings their are a few precautions to be aware of
TBH I think as with all high current machines any parts of cable or charger that are split/badly worn be weary of though our safety electronics are extremely sensitive so any slight signs of overcurrent voltage the units shut off
Which could be a problem in winter or heavy rain if terminals get wet ?
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Their was a brief 5 minute segment on EV chargers this AM. The main problem is The National Grid and getting power from the grid to the charger network. At the same time wind farms and solar farm companies cannot get connected. So yes the Grid seems to be a major problem to the roll out. With demands on the grid elsewhere such as new houses and business will the GOV make the deadline for the end of ICE looks unlikely. Whilst most on here are private motorists the charger network will increasing have to deal with more commercials vehicles.
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charger network will increasing have to deal with more commercials vehicles.
I noticed a few companies in Scotland (I believe but could be wrong place) are now trialling E Artics for different loads, one being Logging which they mentioned the battery load on its own was 12 tonne, thats less load of logs to move so would need more lorries to move what a diesel could
the national grid on the news said they had to install more 32000 volt cables all over the country to supply anywhere near the amount of chargers we need, let alone substations needing to be installed which they reckoned on 12 to 15 years to put up
bearing mind a spokesperson said this not me, I only passed on what I learned.
Toyota I gather are bringing out a new car called the Crown soon some of the 4 models I gather are going to be trial hydrogen fuel cell and gather all these car companies are coming together to make H/fuel stations all over the place which will be rather expensive but they are not going to rely on just one fuel (what Toyota said )
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I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).
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‘I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).’
Not quite.
New builds with off street parking have to have EV charging provision.
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‘I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).’
Not quite. New builds with off street parking have to have EV charging provision.
That would make better sense if the new builds included solar-panel roofs to help power the charging points !
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‘I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).’
Not quite. New builds with off street parking have to have EV charging provision.
That would make better sense if the new builds included solar-panel roofs to help power the charging points !
Many new homes have 2 cars so I suppose you buy a house to suit your reeds. Agree with solar panels on new builds it must be far cheaper than scaffold after completion and house cheaper to run if correct system installed. Re the chargers on new builds it will be years before they might be used?
PS On Panorama tonight 8pm "" Should I buy an EV now"" To save you watching It I suggest you wait a while yet or set up a " go fund me " site!
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‘I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).’
Not quite. New builds with off street parking have to have EV charging provision.
That would make better sense if the new builds included solar-panel roofs to help power the charging points !
Yep - I've been advocating that for many years now. Many new builds - mostly flats, plus a good deal of the cheaper end (terrace) houses now come with 'allocated oarking', nuspeak for 'you park in a car park with a number for 'your' space plus a (very) few vistor spaces overall.
As someone who lives in such a development (20 years old), there's little to no space for EV charging stations, no reserves built up to pay for them and the underground infrastructure / builderswork required to install them, and similar issues with putting up PV panels on the flat block roofs (mainly because we don't own them or the common parts, so the freeholder may object or want a 'cut' from the revenue.
The latest newbuilds in my town - most of which are detached or terraced houses - only come with one charging point, but mostly two-car driveways. Talk about facepalm time. Many (the buildings) look poorly built and people who've moved in are already digging up their drives and gardens because they aren't any good.
One time I think legislation (backed up by proper supervision via sufficient independent people [it used to be better, but still wasn't great]) has to intervene - house-bashers do as little as is legally necessary for the very most part, and charge a small fortune extra for 'good or best practice' which in the real world is really what you should expect the base specification should be.
I hated working on newbuilds - churn out cheap tat as quickly as possible, cutting all manner of corners along the way, otherwise you get the boot.
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‘I believe all new builds now have to be provided with off road parking. Perhaps they should also have to be fitted with a home charging point. No doubt the greedy developers will squeal again, like they did when they were told that they had to provide affordable housing (which our pathetic government soon climbed down from soon after).’
Not quite. New builds with off street parking have to have EV charging provision.
Must admit, I wasnt aware of that. How long has that been the case? That is good to hear though.
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July 2022 was the point that the regs came into effect.
Same applies to offices, supermarkets and buildings undergoing major renovation.
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Not often I agree with Andy!
Regulation of the building sector has been woeful. 20 years ago it was completely evident that that fossil fuels had a limited future and that climate change would anyway mean that limiting their use was the right strategy - only the timing was an issue.
Central government should have mandated that new build should have PV installed, highest standard of insulation, recharging capability built into infrastructure (particularly for housing without off road parking).
Local authorities have also failed. To ensure builds in their area meet reasonable quality standards, an option would be to deny building companies further planning approvals until they could demonstrate that completed builds met acceptable standards.
Whether the government should subsidise )partially) the installation of charging infrastructure in older properties may in future be as reasonable a proposition as now subsidising the sale of new EVs.
Edited by Terry W on 12/06/2023 at 17:37
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Duplicate
Edited by Adampr on 12/06/2023 at 19:17
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Now...the regulation (Approved Document S, for those who like a nice bedtime story) doesn't mandate off street parking (that would be for planning and highways) at all. It requires every new home to have one EV charger either on-plot or in an allocated bay. The only way to get out of it is if there is 3rd party land between the home and the parking bay or if it would cost more than (I think, can't be bothered to check right now) £3,600 to install.
What this is actually achieving in real terms is one charger for homes with on-plot parking and a burgeoning industry in providing commercial chargers for allocated bays with complicated billing arrangements.
As for why we don't mandate PVs on all new builds, the most recent update to the Building Regulations (Approved Document L in this case) brings in much higher requirements for carbon performance which effectively prevent gas heating from being feasible. This means heat pumps are the go-to option and PVs are now commonly used because otherwise the EPC score is pretty dismal (because of the cost of electricity).
Is this a good idea? That remains to be seen. However, most house have a 100 amp or less fuse. 100 amps at 230v is 23kw. With your heat pump drawing 5kw+ and you car charger pulling 7kw+, you're not left with an awful lot for your kettle, washing machine, electric oven etc. Were going to need PV, battery storage and decent inverters to run the average house.
I think that the main impetus for improving the public charging network is going to come from the national grid, who really don't want to be upgrading the power supply into every single house. A while ago I was in a seminar where there was a lot of discussion about buying land next to big substations and motorways. It's always been pretty undesirable because of noise, safety, views etc but will probably be worth a fortune in coming years as you need a big substation to handle the load of multiple rapid chargers.
As for the standard of new builds, it's awful. Even the 'good' builders knock out rubbish. Frankly, anything that uses plasterboard for anything but ceilings is pure garbage. It's not that people aren't building to regs it's that the regs have been lobbied to worthlessness.
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Now...the regulation (Approved Document S, for those who like a nice bedtime story) doesn't mandate off street parking (that would be for planning and highways) at all. It requires every new home to have one EV charger either on-plot or in an allocated bay. The only way to get out of it is if there is 3rd party land between the home and the parking bay or if it would cost more than (I think, can't be bothered to check right now) £3,600 to install.
What this is actually achieving in real terms is one charger for homes with on-plot parking and a burgeoning industry in providing commercial chargers for allocated bays with complicated billing arrangements.
As for why we don't mandate PVs on all new builds, the most recent update to the Building Regulations (Approved Document L in this case) brings in much higher requirements for carbon performance which effectively prevent gas heating from being feasible. This means heat pumps are the go-to option and PVs are now commonly used because otherwise the EPC score is pretty dismal (because of the cost of electricity).
Is this a good idea? That remains to be seen. However, most house have a 100 amp or less fuse. 100 amps at 230v is 23kw. With your heat pump drawing 5kw+ and you car charger pulling 7kw+, you're not left with an awful lot for your kettle, washing machine, electric oven etc. Were going to need PV, battery storage and decent inverters to run the average house.
I think that the main impetus for improving the public charging network is going to come from the national grid, who really don't want to be upgrading the power supply into every single house. A while ago I was in a seminar where there was a lot of discussion about buying land next to big substations and motorways. It's always been pretty undesirable because of noise, safety, views etc but will probably be worth a fortune in coming years as you need a big substation to handle the load of multiple rapid chargers.
As for the standard of new builds, it's awful. Even the 'good' builders knock out rubbish. Frankly, anything that uses plasterboard for anything but ceilings is pure garbage. It's not that people aren't building to regs it's that the regs have been lobbied to worthlessness.
Indeed, and one of the many reasons I got out of Building Services back in 2017. Too many (and increasing) 'compromises' I was not prepepared to make, plus changes to Regs etc that didn't match real world experiences, never mind the drop in quality of site staff and thus build quality, as well as a lack of oversight from independent people not 'paid for' by the developer.
As regards the new stipulations on the Regs, I wonder at how many new builds in my home town have managed to get away with doing things 'the old way' (which in some ways may not be a bad thing, given the problems with using air source heat pumps, storage of electricity sourced from PV panels) by installing gas boilers (I can see the flues) and no PV panels / heat pumps.
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""Whether the government should subsidise )partially) the installation of charging infrastructure in older properties may in future be as reasonable a proposition as now subsidising the sale of new EVs.
By the GOV you mean us the tax payer and as I said earlier I do not want my money spent on chargers
Yes some of the new builds are terrible and small mickey mouse houses are appearing everywhere but I suppose it does give people an independent start as opposed to renting.
I do not think humans can do anything to stop climate change. Yes the way we generate energy is better and changing of the way we will drive in the UK. But looking World wide and what is going on with the human race expanding there is not a cat in hells chance that climate change can be slowed and that's assuming the cause is indeed man made.
In the UK a shorter milder winter will suit millions of people struggling to pay their fuel bills and the World will still be here. Feel lucky that the World is not heading into another ICE AGE now that could be trouble
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I do believe that the world will eventually wean itself off fossil fuels (for energy purposes anyway). However, I think we are looking at centuries as opposed to decades.
Edited by davecooper on 12/06/2023 at 21:05
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Proven oil and gas reserves will last ~50 years at current extraction levels. However:
- nations which aspire to improve standard of living will increase demand
- further reserves may be economically exploitable if the price increases
- existing green energy initiatives may reduce future per capita demand
The certainty is that fossil fuels are limited. Assuming demand increases in the absence of EV and other green regulation, and supply at best remains stable, prices will increase.
We have seen what happens with a relatively small "blip" in energy and food supply reductions forced through the Ukraine conflict. Contemplate what happens when billions in India, Pakistan, Africa etc aspire to European levels of consumption.
A stick with ICE strategy begs the question - how long do we have until the cost of fossil fuels denies all but the very wealthy personal transport? That there is nothing to worry about for centuries is fatuous - I think we have 20 years at best.
Developing an alternative infrastructure based on green technologies is fundamental to our future well being. Doing so is not easy, but the risks associated with failure are likely far greater.
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I wish I felt some optimism but I think the percentage of the worlds population that either doesn't care or has a vested interest in the continued use of non renewables far outweighs those of us who can see a bleak future if we don't change course quickly.
Edited by davecooper on 12/06/2023 at 23:09
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I do not think humans can do anything to stop climate change.
Well, they could .... What humans cannot do is control collective human nature. Very few people are happy to sacrifice any part of their accustomed lifestyle, and most want to improve theirs (especially with events like Ukraine going on). All that means that demand for energy - mostly electrical, some fossil-fuelled - is not going to fall, with population growing steadily.
And that is another facet of individual human nature.
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Feel lucky that the World is not heading into another ICE AGE now that could be trouble
If it was we are not going to be able to do anything about it, only cope as best we can, though it won`t happen in a few years it was estimated around 20k years in the 70s if it does.
I have not heard anyone thats said they are willing to pay taxes for chargers and don`t blame them, though your lecky bill may pay for them instead, and the determination of some that EVs will COME hard and fast regardless of whats involved in the making of them, seems to me they are determined we are having them regardless of what really happens to global warming so imo it really has nothing to do with it
blind leading the blind. as the saying goes
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News today that the coal powered generators at Radcliffe have had to be fired up to supplement the grid because of lack of wind power and no solar power which can’t operate in temperatures of over 25 degrees.
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Well it is about 30° here, and my solar panels are generating and the turbines are visibly turning as I write ... I don't know why there can be so many solar arrays in seriously hot places like Sicily or Spain ?
Edited by Andrew-T on 13/06/2023 at 14:53
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It is all the folks working from home with their huge kilowatt fans sending up demand. Coal to the rescue and lets save jobs in the UK instead of importing it. Now if they were in the office they would have free air con.
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It is all the folks working from home with their huge kilowatt fans sending up demand.
Not all, some are getting usb fans that take no more power than a mobile phone, I have several as they are cheap to run and as good as a mains fan, all have lasted over 2 years so far and working now as its pretty warm
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Now if they were in the office they would have free air con.
It might be free (to them) but it would still raise demand on the grid !! Possibly more than at home.
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It is all the folks working from home with their huge kilowatt fans sending up demand. Coal to the rescue and lets save jobs in the UK instead of importing it. Now if they were in the office they would have free air con.
To get to the office most (bike riders, walkers and bus users aside) would need to put fuel in the car. Interesting to speculate on which is more damaging or costly - commuting or running air con at home (if you have it).
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Well it is about 30° here, and my solar panels are generating and the turbines are visibly turning as I write ... I don't know why there can be so many solar arrays in seriously hot places like Sicily or Spain ?
They must be all out of action most of the time. Strong easterly winds here. National grid live shows no coal, 14.2% solar, 20.3% wind.
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Well it is about 30° here, and my solar panels are generating and the turbines are visibly turning as I write ... I don't know why there can be so many solar arrays in seriously hot places like Sicily or Spain ?
They must be all out of action most of the time. Strong easterly winds here. National grid live shows no coal, 14.2% solar, 20.3% wind.
I think it take a while to get things in motion as it were, to start up power stations that have been shut down.
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Well it is about 30° here, and my solar panels are generating and the turbines are visibly turning as I write ... I don't know why there can be so many solar arrays in seriously hot places like Sicily or Spain ?
Maybe its not the in-the-shade temperature but the in-the-sun one, i.e. how strong the sun is. But you're right - very hot countries who regularly get blue skies don't appear to have such problems. I suspect here it's more down to the quality of the panels.
Rather like our railway system when it's cold/snows and all the train doors sieze up. TBH I'm surprised we haven't seen stories in the media about train lines buckling yet! We tend to buy the cheapest rather than what's needed, one of my many bugears from my former industry.
If you buy cheap tat, what do you expect?
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<< I'm surprised we haven't seen stories in the media about train lines buckling yet! >>
I think buckled track may be a thing of the past, except perhaps in really high temperatures. In the old days rails were short and butt-jointed, and fishplated gaps were left between them for expansion. Now they are welded and use Nielson joints, and may also use low-expansion steel (if such a thing exists). That's why the clickety-clack is also a thing of the past.
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solar power which can’t operate in temperatures of over 25 degrees.
That's not true in the slightest - where do you get such daft information?
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solar power which can’t operate in temperatures of over 25 degrees.
That's not true in the slightest - where do you get such daft information?
I think it's a misunderstanding of the reality. PV panels are power tested at 25 degrees (i.e. a 300w panel puts out 300w at 25 degrees in test conditions). Below 25 degrees they put out more power and above, less. The drop, though, is something like 1/4 of a percent per degree. In other words, if it somehow got to 45 degrees, their efficiency would drop by 5%.
The effects can be more alarming the other direction. At midday on a very clear sub-zero day it's possible to generate too much voltage and kill the capacitors in your inverter. A decent installer takes account of that when they wire them, but many just put them on a single string regardless.
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"""he effects can be more alarming the other direction. At midday on a very clear sub-zero day it's possible to generate too much voltage and kill the capacitors in your inverter. A decent installer takes account of that when they wire them, but many just put them on a single string regardless."""
Is nothing straight forward in this world. What could possibly go wrong with solar panels other than the fitter falling off your roof! Perhaps spending some £7k or more you might expect 100% reliability. I often wonder how many properties have leaky roofs after putting these up or finding their panels three streets away after a gale.
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Perhaps spending some £7k or more you might expect 100% reliability. I often wonder how many properties have leaky roofs after putting these up or finding their panels three streets away after a gale.
Well, our nine panels were installed on our bungalow nearly 12 years ago, between 9am and teatime, including the demolition of a small redundant chimney stack. They have not yet blown away, and I don't think the roof leaks there - maybe I should check ... :-)
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solar power which can’t operate in temperatures of over 25 degrees.
That's not true in the slightest - where do you get such daft information?
I think it's a misunderstanding of the reality. PV panels are power tested at 25 degrees (i.e. a 300w panel puts out 300w at 25 degrees in test conditions). Below 25 degrees they put out more power and above, less. The drop, though, is something like 1/4 of a percent per degree. In other words, if it somehow got to 45 degrees, their efficiency would drop by 5%.
The effects can be more alarming the other direction. At midday on a very clear sub-zero day it's possible to generate too much voltage and kill the capacitors in your inverter. A decent installer takes account of that when they wire them, but many just put them on a single string regardless.
Ths source of the absurd statement can be traced, of course, to a politician. Presumably onw with the comprehension skills of a loaf of bread.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65907342
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Here it is and coming soon the 10 minute charge.
Toyota announces new EV battery which could cut charging time to under 10 minutes (msn.com)
I mentioned this before and good to see they are going to make a selection of fuelled cars not just the one (EV) which gives everyone a choice, going forward with a choice is the future not being stuck with one option as most want.
as a PS, I heard Tesla or Elon`s company are testing out a new design of Solar panel, the panel is made of several layers and can produce electricity even in darker cloud so there wont be a break in charging from them, certainly be good where you don`t get a lot of sun with a higher charge rate, I intend looking it up as I missed the video of it.
Edited by Bolt on 13/06/2023 at 15:59
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I am posting this out of pure interest, I will leave others to comment or perhaps pull it apart after all it is from the DM Page down to the reader comments for the entertainment!
Charging an electric car is now MORE expensive than filling up at the pump | Daily Mail Online
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I am posting this out of pure interest, I will leave others to comment or perhaps pull it apart after all it is from the DM Page down to the reader comments for the entertainment!
Charging an electric car is now MORE expensive than filling up at the pump | Daily Mail Online
I enjoyed this comment:
These vehicles are not practical and will never replace my horse, Dobbin. My horse is far superior. He runs all day eating free grass and never breaks down. He is carbon neutral and environmentally friendly, whatever all that means. We don't have range anxiety because Dobbin just keeps going. There will never be enough petrol garages and the infrastructure just isn't there. They put children down those oil mines in Texas, you know. Anyway, I can't afford over 1,000 Guineas for one of those ridiculous horseless carriages. They are one big con being pushed by the government because they want only the rich to be able to travel. Dobbin knows he's best but please don't tell him I've booked him in at the knacker's yard. Not even Dobbin can stand in the way of progress. History repeating itself.
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It may be worth reading the article, not just the ridiculous misleading headline,
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