Underside rust

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 12:18
Underside rust - Warning

I still have not found a replacement car. Still driving a now 17 year car (less then 50k). I have been wanting to upgrade for a considerable time. I do see a good deal, but they are often 150 miles from home.

I saw a 2012 Lexus. I had a quick peek on the underside, and was shocked by the amount of underside rust. It was beyond reasonable. The car dealer told me this is common with this brand. This is supposed to be a premium brand and the price when new is £48k. He said Hondas have the same issue. I have been watching Scotty Kilmer on Youtube, he raves about those Jap brands, but I think he is wrong about their quality.

I checked the underside of my 17 year old car and absolutely no rust on the underside. I keep it on the road overnight.

It looks like the car gods, don't want to me to buy a replacement car!.

I did see a BMW (3 series - 2015), but put off by reliability and cost of maintenance. I have an aversion to high repair bills or being off-road without a car.

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Edited by Warning on 15/02/2023 at 12:21

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 13:14
Underside rust - alan1302

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Maybe time to be less fussy?

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 13:20
Underside rust - Lee Power

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Maybe time to be less fussy?

Why? That's basically my list of exclusions as well.

For me I would add in nothing from the Stellantis group.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 22:06
Underside rust - alan1302

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Maybe time to be less fussy?

Why? That's basically my list of exclusions as well.

For me I would add in nothing from the Stellantis group.

Why? So you have more choice :-)

Not having any Citroen/Peugeot/Vauxhall/Jeep/Maserati/Fiat or Alfa does narrow you down a lot.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 14:07
Underside rust - RT

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Maybe time to be less fussy?

Definitely - I've got one car with a turbo-diesel and a towbar - 8 years old with no issues and good for another 8 years - the other's a 12-year old 3-cylinder city car with 105,000 miles on - again no issues.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 14:43
Underside rust - Crickleymal

What is wrong with a 3 cylinder car?

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 14:57
Underside rust - badbusdriver

What is wrong with a 3 cylinder car?

Nothing whatsoever, but some feel a 3 cyl car is a lesser car!.

Though quite why the notion of a 12 year old, 112k mile city car not having 'issues' might be a surprise or unexpected (unless an Ecoboost) is beyond me?.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 15:34
Underside rust - Andrew-T

Still driving a now 17 year car (less then 50k). I have been wanting to upgrade for a considerable time

My list is getting smaller - no diesels, no cars with turbo, no 3 cylinder cars, no cars with trailer hooks etc....

Do you NEED to change, or do you just feel like one ? My car is younger than yours (15) and it is a diesel with a turbo, but it does have 4 cylinders and no tow-hitch. More importantly it has never gone wrong - I have had it since almost new. And for the benefit of other prejudiced posters, it is a Peugeot (now Stellantis).

Don't forget that if you have (presumably) enjoyed your car for that long you may change it for something you like less, and probably something that will be more expensive to fix.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 17:10
Underside rust - Terry W

My 2018 Peugeot has just 3 cylinders.

It performs at least as well as 2L Mondeo and Vectra used to 20 years ago - ~120mph and 0-60 ~10 secs.

It is more economical returning ~45mpg in general mixed use.

At 70mph it is doing around 2000rpm.

Electric may well be the long term future of motoring - but excluding 3 pots simply reduces the potential candidates.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 11:48
Underside rust - John F

My 2018 Peugeot has just 3 cylinders.........It performs at least as well as 2L Mondeo ....... used to 20 years ago - ~120mph and 0-60 ~10 secs.

Indeed so. The 2003 Mondeo had a better top speed (134mph v. 124), presumably due to better aerodynamics and a slightly more powerful engine, but the Mondeo 0-62mph was a yawning 9.9secs (8.7 for the Pug 1.2 130 EAT6). The Mondeo 2.0l may have had more power (143bhp) but, crucially, far less torque at much higher revs. (190nM v. 230nM)

It is more economical returning ~45mpg in general mixed use.

Our long term trip recording is 42.7, mainly Mrs F's shopping and social trips. The Mondeo 2L stats state 34.9 mpg combined, but I bet no-one got even 30mpg in real life suburban use.

At 70mph it is doing around 2000rpm.

Our Pug does 30mph per 1000 revs in 6th.

Despite the influences of fashion and environmental concerns it will be a long time before the now ubiquitous reliable and economical tiny turbo engines with their small light sub 50 litre durable fuel tanks are superseded by electric motors with their large heavy and eventually unrechargeable batteries.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 17:14
Underside rust - corax

What is your 17 year old car? No rust on the underside? Do you drive it through salt laden British winters?

VAG have been good with underside protection for a number of years now.

I remember reading in Car Mechanics magazine that with later Renault, Peugeot, Citroens despite their reputation for niggles, you won't see a rusty body, even if it's not been looked after. Not sure about the undersides.

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Wed 15 Feb 2023 17:14
Underside rust - Big John

I saw a 2012 Lexus. I had a quick peek on the underside, and was shocked by the amount of underside rust. It was beyond reasonable. The car dealer told me this is common with this brand. This is supposed to be a premium brand and the price when new is £48k. He said Hondas have the same issue.

Was this on the main body work or just suspension / subframe components? My sister's 2011 Honda Jazz looks very good underneath but does have a few bad mud trap areas especially around rear inner wings/ wheel arches. Easy to keep on top of (when she is up I periodically clear out and wipe over with Owatrol Oil.

Re rust -

Personally I still find Fiats could be a problem if not looked after. Mr BJ's Panda seems prone where under panels have been spot welded together, I'm guessing the metal is galvanised BEFORE being welded together. Beam axle, subframe and sump seem unprotected from new (Owatrol to the rescue). It also has a mud trap in the front inner wing (where brake pipes pass through etc).

Most of my recent Skoda's have been amazingly rust resilient re main body but unprotected suspension & subframes prone to surface rust. The exception to that was my previous Skoda Superb mkI which didn't seem as good re rust. My current 2014 Superb seems amazingly rust free except I keep and eye on suspension and keep rustproofed.

In my opinion I wouldn't buy a car with rust on the main body panels thought but I would generally deem surface rust on suspension/subframe etc as ok.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 08:46
Underside rust - Steveieb

Both SLO and High Peak Motors warn against buying a car that has spent some time north of the border because of the effect of the amount of salt that is used on the roads up there during winter.

High Peak even advise you to check if the number plate started with an S as I assume this indicates the car was first registered in Scotland.

My Audi A 4 along with VW Passats fro the early 2000 have serious rust in their front wings but the superstructure is absolutely fine. Caused by sound deadening which contains the moisture !

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 08:57
Underside rust - skidpan

Our 3 pot 110PS Fabia TSi is just about the same physical size as my old Mk2 Golf GTi (but the Fabia has a bigger boot and more rear seat space) with the same amount of power (think that had 112PS). So how does the drive compare.

According to the manufacturers figures and road tests the top speed is higher (probably better aero) but acceleration is slower (probably the extra 200+ kg the Fabia carries). But in the real world (even though my Golf Mk 2 experience ended in 1996) it seems to me that the engine in the Fabia has way more grunt and overtakes are far easier. The Golf averaged about 32 mpg, the Fabia has averaged about 48 mpg so far.

So its definitely a win win for the 3 pot.

But as I have said repeatedly before I am not convinced that I would want the 1 litre 3 pot in a car bigger than the Fabia. For town use it would be fine but on longer trips in hilly areas fully loaded I think it would be marginal.

No panic though, other manufacturers do bigger 3 pots and one of those should do a great job.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 09:00
Underside rust - RT

Both SLO and High Peak Motors warn against buying a car that has spent some time north of the border because of the effect of the amount of salt that is used on the roads up there during winter.

High Peak even advise you to check if the number plate started with an S as I assume this indicates the car was first registered in Scotland.

My Audi A 4 along with VW Passats fro the early 2000 have serious rust in their front wings but the superstructure is absolutely fine. Caused by sound deadening which contains the moisture !

That's a bit arbitrary - try measuring the difference between the climate in Southern Scotland with that of Northern England, indeed some parts of Scotland are further south than parts of England AND are warmed by the Gulf Stream.

More sensible advise is to avoid cars that have spent their time near the coast anywhere in the UK, because of the salt in the air - but you can't tell that from the registration.

Anyway, the leasing companies and rental companies register cars where they're located, not where the user is based.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 10:04
Underside rust - gordonbennet

A quick look underneath usually confirms where a car has lived and how its been cared for or not.

Never ceases to amaze me how many people buy a car without checking the thing over properly then seem surprised when they discover at the next MOT the thing is corroded to hell and back, so well done the OP for having the nous to take a look...sales bods get a bit unnerved when you don the overalls and complete with torch slide underneath before looking at anything else, which is how i inspect a vehicle i'm considering buying.

I'm one who won't buy a car thats lived in Scotland or the north, mainly go by service stamps and previous MOT's, of course you can only confirm the previous MOT addresses once you have the necessary code number which is usually at the point of sale, having run Landcruisers and the like for a number of years on the specific forums those who bought ex Scotland cars have serious chassis corrosion issues.

Hasn't someone been on the thread yet to tell us that cars don't rust any more :-)

edit, on the subject of Lexus's, IS200s could rot sills to olympic standards, just cos it has a Lexus badge doesn't mean its any better protected than an equivalent Toyota, ie Camry.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/02/2023 at 10:10

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 11:06
Underside rust - John F

Mrs F's 3yr old Peugeot 2008 is far too young to get rusty, and on my usual annual inspection I noticed its underbody bits are well protected with plastic guards which augur well for their preservation when it gets beyond 10yrs old. My 'forever car', an Audi A8, shows no sign of its 17yrs age underneath, as it's all aluminium.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 14:21
Underside rust - Steveieb

The other car that shows no sign of rust at 20 years is the Audi A2. Being all aluminium like John F s Audi A8 it should last for ever but in my case mine was plagued with minor faults.

Audi cars from the 90s were galvanised and my lovely 80 Tdi went for scrap with not a hint of rust.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 11:18
Underside rust - skidpan

Hasn't someone been on the thread yet to tell us that cars don't rust any more :-)

They are normally made of steel mostly so they must rust eventually but its no way like it was back in the 60's etc.

Just checked on the oldest ex-car of mine that was still on the road the last time I looked. A November 1999 Puma that I sold in 2006. When sold it had a bit of rust/rot appearing at the bottom of the rear wheel arches that was caused by Ford using a matt to "protect" form stone chips that became waterlogged. Why not simply use plastic protectors?

Its MOT expired last week and it does not appear to have even been taken in to fail, presume that means its dead. However, the tax is still current thus there is a good chance its still being used.

So just over 23 years old and like a said it was a car noted for corroding in certain places.

For the record we do not live in Scotland or even what I would consider to be the North. But yesterday the roads were still white with salt and its like that every winter. They normally stop by late April. When I sold the car it stayed local (about 8 miles away) but no idea where its ended its life or even how its been looked after. Looking at the MOT history its failed every year since 2017 with lots of corrosion and its only done 2300 miles in that time so I would guess the MOT is the only time its seen a mechanic (subject to breakdowns of course).

They don't make um like they used to - thank the lord.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 14:18
Underside rust - Andrew-T

A quick look underneath usually confirms where a car has lived and how its been cared for or not.

Living near the sea may not necessarily be the cause of corrosion. One of the many 205s I have owned showed unusual rusting under the front wings, which I had repaired. I am pretty certain that was because the first owner - who had the car for many years - lived in a house with a gravel driveway. Years of exposure to grapeshot during keen starts was the probable reason.

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Fri 17 Feb 2023 12:35
Underside rust - edlithgow

I had the use of an old Honda Accord here in Taiwan for a few months.

Thing looked pretty shiny apart from some sunburn on the roof, but on poking around a bit I found some rust holes in both sills immediately forrard of the rear wheel arches. Given that there is no (non-marine anyway) salt threat here, I found that unimpressive, but this car had plastic cosmetic sill covers (apparently OE) which does seem to be rather asking for trouble, and something to avoid.

Skooshed some rust inhibitor (diesel:motor oil:sunflower oil at about 1:1:2, IIRC) through the holes, but the car was probably going to scrap long before the rust was getting it anyway

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 12:19
Underside rust - Gibbo_Wirral

I saw a 2012 Lexus. I had a quick peek on the underside, and was shocked by the amount of underside rust. It was beyond reasonable. The car dealer told me this is common with this brand. This is supposed to be a premium brand and the price when new is £48k. He said Hondas have the same issue. I have been watching Scotty Kilmer on Youtube, he raves about those Jap brands, but I think he is wrong about their quality.

The Mazda MX5 suffers badly too. I've seen models of similar age rotten underneath.

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Thu 16 Feb 2023 21:15
Underside rust - Xileno

This thread reminds me that when the first warm weather of Spring comes I need to get the hose and carbrush under the car, get all the salt off. Then perhaps get some waxoyl or owatrol brushed around. I usually waxoyl the vulnerable parts each year, along the sills, arches etc. Most of it looks like the day it left the factory but I might do the subframe this year anyway.

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Fri 17 Feb 2023 20:01
Underside rust - Xileno

"They don't make um like they used to - thank the lord."

I don't envy this young man's task, I bet it's far worse than it seems when he starts pulling it apart.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggVuz3rJyqQ

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Fri 17 Feb 2023 21:13
Underside rust - Big John

I was looking for a Triumph Stag in the very late 80's, remember back then some of these were only just over 10 years old. Most of the cars I found were already full of filler and sill rot hidden with shiny stainless steel sill cover plates. If you grabbed hold of where the rear wheel arch met the sill if it flexed at all you ran away! Infact I gave up with the idea and built a kit car instead.

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Fri 17 Feb 2023 22:13
Underside rust - sammy1

Car SOS has seen plenty of the rust worm, they give back some cars that are about 10% original. I always wonder what the restored car is worth and if there is any covenant on the owner selling it on at a vast profit. I suppose The TV companies profit is in the programme itself

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Sat 18 Feb 2023 10:45
Underside rust - corax

"They don't make um like they used to - thank the lord."

I don't envy this young man's task, I bet it's far worse than it seems when he starts pulling it apart.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggVuz3rJyqQ

Oh dear, it has the original Triumph engine. There will be a separate project on that too :-)

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Sat 18 Feb 2023 10:57
Underside rust - Xileno

Stag could have been a great car if only BL had stopped to build the thing properly. And used the Rover V8. Typical British car of that period - brilliant design but not finished.

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Sat 18 Feb 2023 11:30
Underside rust - RT

Stag could have been a great car if only BL had stopped to build the thing properly. And used the Rover V8. Typical British car of that period - brilliant design but not finished.

Or even just finished development of the Triumph V8 - based on the same design as the Triumph/Saab slant-four, it was inherently a good design but let down by poor production quality.

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Sat 18 Feb 2023 11:40
Underside rust - skidpan

Stag could have been a great car if only BL had stopped to build the thing properly. And used the Rover V8. Typical British car of that period - brilliant design but not finished.

Or even just finished development of the Triumph V8 - based on the same design as the Triumph/Saab slant-four, it was inherently a good design but let down by poor production quality.

As I remember it the Rover V8 was not used because at the time whilst having about 150 bhp it was hardly sporty since it had a 5000 rpm rev limit (because of the hydraulic lifters). Not an issue in a large saloon but when the sports competition has revvy engines it was considered to be a potential sales looser.

But that did not stop Morgan using the same V8 at the same time in a sports car, but maybe Morgan considered their typical buyers would not find the lowish rev limit an issue.

Over the next few decades the engine was developed of course and found a home in many sports cars, TVR's being just one.

But as technology improved my Caterham had hydraulic lifters for a few years, never stopped it revving to 7500.

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Sat 18 Feb 2023 13:05
Underside rust - RT

We need to remember that the Rover V8 was designed in USA and introduced in 1961 as the Buick 215 with 150 bhp at 4,400 rpm as Americans like low-revving engines so I suspect the whole design was initially limited to 5,000, not just the hydraulic lifters - Subaru used hydraulic lifters in their flat-four from the start, with a much higher rev limit.

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