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de icing a screen. - barney100

Saw a bloke on you tube who de iced his screen with a plastic bag with warm water in it. Just worked the bag up and down and the ice went. Just needed warm water as too hot may crack the screen, tried it today and it's a good method.

de icing a screen. - Bromptonaut

The best I have found, short of a fan heater in the car, is warm (ie no more than hand hot) water. That both removes external frost AND raises the temperature of the internal surface of the screen above the point where it mists up.

de icing a screen. - FoxyJukebox
Totally agree-then squirt a minimal amount of de-icer …too much and it re-freezes instantly unless car is at warm temp.
de icing a screen. - gordonbennet

Screen covers we use here, one has edges that you trap betwen the door (or window if frameless) and A pillar, the one on the Landcruiser is a much bigger affair which is shaped to go over the mirrors too and covers most of the two front side windows as well.

The one that traps in the door frame will allow water to seep through, so best not tucked into the door frame if rain expected. The other bigger one secures by 4 elastic straps, two to door handles two to front wheels nothing tucked inside to help prevent easy theft so unless you have decent offroad parking probably not ideal, it was getting on for £30 but would recommend, it would also be good as a sun blocker.

The issue with covers is that they get covered in frost, a considerable amount of water involved which won't simply shake off, i don't put them in the car like that because obvious thaw issue leading to damp, so leave them in our enclosed storm porch or garage to dry off, by the time i've done that and sorted my kit out the car heater is usually starting to warm up.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/12/2022 at 14:20

de icing a screen. - elekie&a/c doctor
Can’t be doing any of that . Press the defrost programme on my Focus you get heated front and rear screens and mirrors. Then the option for the heated seats .
de icing a screen. - groaver

I read something yesterday (on BBC site?) with a person stating that pulling sun visors down when you put windscreen blower on, melts the ice quicker.

I haven't tried it yet to substantiate it or not.

de icing a screen. - sammy1

Somebody has invented a product in an aerosol called De something. you squirt it on the glass

de icing a screen. - badbusdriver

I read something yesterday (on BBC site?) with a person stating that pulling sun visors down when you put windscreen blower on, melts the ice quicker.

I haven't tried it yet to substantiate it or not.

I haven't tried it either but I can see the logic. With the visors up, the air from the vents will simply go up the screen and off into the rest of the car. Visors down and at least some of the air will be tumbling around between screen and visor for a time before escaping which, in theory, would speed up the process. I wouldn't have thought the difference would be that much though.

Somebody has invented a product in an aerosol called De something. you squirt it on the glass

De-icer is full of chemicals and bad for the environment, so many people would rather not use it if poss.

de icing a screen. - Terry W

Get up a few minutes early. Start engine. Wait two minutes, Switch on heater. Wait five minutes. Drive off.

Even with a quick-clear windscreen and heated mirrors, you still need to clear side windows.

Less damage to engine as already warm as you drive off.

de icing a screen. - Chris M

Get out of bed and take a peek outside. If it's frosty, wake the missus to let her know she needs to get up five minutes before I leave. Only seems fair to warn her.

;)

de icing a screen. - Andrew-T

<< De-icer is full of chemicals and bad for the environment, so many people would rather not use it if poss.>>

Most de-icers contain isopropanol (IPA) which usually clears thin ice. Trouble is it usually evaporates before the water, which often reappears shortly because of the cooling effect of the evaporation - especially if the car is moving.

de icing a screen. - Bromptonaut

De-icer is full of chemicals and bad for the environment, so many people would rather not use it if poss.

As already pointed out it's alcohol and water.

Reason not to use it is that (a) it's not that efficient (b) evaporating alcohol cools the glass and promotes misting up inside.

de icing a screen. - badbusdriver

A search for what is in de-icer. First is from a page on a (UK) car leasing website giving advice on winter driving, second is from Parkers.

What is in de-icer

As part of our popular series of winter car care articles today we focus on de-icers. There are a couple of different variations of de-icer on the market. However, the most common type of de-icer is the aerosol can/spray and the product you're most likely researching. The other type of de-icer for road surfaces is rock salt grit. The vast majority of the chemical composition of a aerosol/spray de-icer is:

Ammonia

A harsh and toxic chemical which helps with the vaporisation of de-icer. It accounts for less than 1% of the composition.

Butane/propane blend

A volatile gas blend commonly associated with lighter fluids which helps with melting the ice. Comprises between 1%-5% of the composition.

Ethanediol

Ethanediol helps to depress the freezing point of aqueous mixtures - this is what stops antifreeze itself from freezing and also the materials it comes in contact with (windscreens, windows etc). Highly toxic and accounts for around 5%-10% of the composition. This is essential to make sure the melting solvents don't freeze such as the isopropanol (alcohol).

Ethanol

Ethanol is a widely used solvent which has a low freezing point and an acidic/corrosive effect which melts ice. It is often used in making alcoholic beverages. Ethanol is the most common ingredient in de-icer and accounts for 10%-30% of antifreeze.

Isopropanol

Isopropanol is highly flammable liquid more commonly known as rubbing alcohol. The alcohol is a key component of the actual antifreeze and accounts for 1%-5% of the composition.

Water

The rest of the composition is water which dilutes the rest of the solvents and makes it sprayable to come out as a liquid once it hits a surface. Without the water being added in de-icer would be even more harmful to humans, animals and the environment than it already is.

Is de-icer bad for the environment

Yes. There are no two ways about it - de-icer is bad for the environment. From the metals used to create the tin, to the methods to get the chemicals all the way to what the chemicals do to any vegetation around where it is applied. The toxic mixture can kill animals who ingest even a little bit of it and it can make any vegetation die and make the soil become infertile.

When using de-icer be extra mindful how much is used and where it is used, alternatively you can use some of the suggestions below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How does de-icer work?

You’ll need to remember back to your school days and learning about freezing points. Water (the main component of ice) freezes at 0°C, the reason winter mornings often require a de-icer. De-icer works by lowering the freezing point of water which melts the ice away. Most will use ethylene glycol (a nasty chemical) to achieve this, although magnesium chloride (also nasty) is used for exceptionally cold weather.

Edited by badbusdriver on 11/12/2022 at 18:14

de icing a screen. - Rerepo

I haven't endured a UK winter for about 5 years now - we go abroad during the cold months. However I never found de-icer that great. It actually cools the glass further and leads to icing on the inside. Only used it in desperation when away from home.

At home I used to fill a watering can with tepid water. Pour slowly over the glass. Worked well over many years and never experienced cracking or any other adverse effects.

de icing a screen. - Xileno

I also use tepid water from a watering can but just on the side windows. The front and rear heated screens do the rest including the door mirrors and washer jets.

de icing a screen. - badbusdriver

I very rarely have to scrape or de-ice the windows. I put this down to The North Sea being about 200m to my left when I step out the front door ;-)

de icing a screen. - Big John

I also use tepid water from a watering can but just on the side windows. The front and rear heated screens do the rest including the door mirrors and washer jets.

Great down to a certain temperature but if very cold I've managed to freeze doors/handles shut with this method if very cold.

If I know it's going to be really cold I put in a lowish power fan heater that's plugged into an outside socket on my house that is switched from the inside. I turn on before having breakfast and the car is ready to go afterwards.

de icing a screen. - Andrew-T

<< As part of our popular series of winter car care articles today we focus on de-icers >>

Hmm. I can't help feeling the writer of this article may have passed GCSE chemistry, but not much more. I'm not sure how propane/butane will 'help with melting the ice', and there is no suggestion that it is flammable, which is apparently a danger with isopropanol - which, by the way, I didn't think was 'rubbing alcihol', otherwise known as surgical spirit or pure ethanol. Ethanediol, by the way, is another name for glycol. Ammonia will be a good (alkaline) wetting agent, and may even neutralise that acidic ethanol (how acidic is that glass of wine ?).

The writer is clearly obsessively protective of the environment, not without reason. But seemingly not bothered about people driving their cars.

de icing a screen. - badbusdriver

<< As part of our popular series of winter car care articles today we focus on de-icers >>

Hmm. I can't help feeling the writer of this article may have passed GCSE chemistry, but not much more. I'm not sure how propane/butane will 'help with melting the ice', and there is no suggestion that it is flammable, which is apparently a danger with isopropanol - which, by the way, I didn't think was 'rubbing alcihol', otherwise known as surgical spirit or pure ethanol. Ethanediol, by the way, is another name for glycol. Ammonia will be a good (alkaline) wetting agent, and may even neutralise that acidic ethanol (how acidic is that glass of wine ?).

The writer is clearly obsessively protective of the environment, not without reason. But seemingly not bothered about people driving their cars.

Here is (from their own website) what is in Halfords most popular aerosol de-icer;

Water 50-70%

CAS number: 7732-18-5 EC number: 231-791-2

Classification

Not Classified

ETHANOL 10-25%

CAS number: 64-17-5 EC number: 200-578-6

Classification

Flam. Liq. 2 - H225 Eye Irrit. 2 - H319

Ethanediol 5-10%

CAS number: 107-21-1 EC number: 203-473-3

Classification

Acute Tox. 4 - H302 STOT RE 2 - H373

BUTANE 1-5%

CAS number: 106-97-8 EC number: 203-448-7

Classification

Flam. Gas 1A - H220 Press. Gas

PROPANE 1-5%

CAS number: 74-98-6 EC number: 200-827-9

Classification

Flam. Gas 1A - H220

3/23

Revision date: 05/07/2021 Revision: 3 Supersedes date: 14/08/2018

Halfords -25C Aerosol Deicer

ISOBUTANE 1-5%

CAS number: 75-28-5 EC number: 200-857-2

Classification

Flam. Gas 1A - H220 Press. Gas

PROPAN-2-OL <1%

CAS number: 67-63-0 EC number: 200-661-7

Classification

Flam. Liq. 2 - H225 Eye Irrit. 2 - H319 STOT SE 3 - H336

Ammonia ....% <1%

CAS number: 1336-21-6 EC number: 215-647-6 M factor (Acute) = 1

Classification

Skin Corr. 1B - H314 Eye Dam. 1 - H318 STOT SE 3 - H335 Aquatic Acute 1 - H400

METHANOL <1%

CAS number: 67-56-1 EC number: 200-659-6

Classification

Flam. Liq. 2 - H225 Acute Tox. 3 - H301 Acute Tox. 3 - H311 Acute Tox. 3 - H331 STOT SE 1 - H370

MORPHOLINE <1%

CAS number: 110-91-8 EC number: 203-815-1

Classification

Flam. Liq. 3 - H226 Acute Tox. 4 - H302 Acute Tox. 4 - H312 Acute Tox. 4 - H332 Skin Corr. 1B - H314 Eye Dam. 1 - H318

I'm no chemist, but I do believe that if Halfords says this is what is in their de-icer, that is what is in their (and presumably most others) de-icer.

But I think the points shown in the thread is that there are alternatives to just automatically spraying on a load of de-icer. Alternatives which, with a bit of foresight needn't take much, if any, longer than using de-icer.

Edited by badbusdriver on 12/12/2022 at 07:02

de icing a screen. - Andrew-T

<< I do believe that if Halfords says this is what is in their de-icer, that is what is in their (and presumably most others) de-icer. >>

I have no quibble with that, BBD. It's a pretty variable formula ! The only interesting point for me is that the primary alcohol is ethanol (not IPA = propan-2-ol), presumably because it is cheaper or more available. The last 4 components are traces only, rather like saying there may be some nuts in your chocolate bar, tho I don't know what the morpholine is doing :-)

Butane and propane (camping gas) are there as a propellant, and that will be done mostly by the latter as butane boils at 0°, as anyone who has camped in freezing conditions will know. Also interesting is throwing 50% water at a frozen screen :-)

de icing a screen. - edlithgow
Can’t be doing any of that . Press the defrost programme on my Focus you get heated front and rear screens and mirrors. Then the option for the heated seats .

Can't be doing any of that, since I can't find any frost on my car,

ever

But when I did, in Aberdeen, I put a hot water bottle on the dash, and went and had a full Scottish breakfast.

I've used a hot water bottle on the outside to warm the rear window to help remove window tint film, but it was still a PITA

de icing a screen. - Cris_on_the_gas

Don't bother put the car in the garage.

de icing a screen. - Robert J.
I use my B and Q discount card to scrape mine, but I only get 20% off.
de icing a screen. - alan1302
I use my B and Q discount card to scrape mine, but I only get 20% off.

Groan :-)

de icing a screen. - Maxime.

we had frozen wiper nozzles and I think the pump froze too, but just belw the fuse.

Cured by filling a watering can with a long spot with hot water fronm the tap and shoving it down the filler for the waher bottle, flushed out the ice , dthen used a bit of the warm water and added winscreen antifreese neat, then after that came out, topped up, used a few time not continuously and that did the trick.

de icing a screen. - John F

We used to have a long thin toaster, but one of the 500w elements irreparably failed. During the winter I inserted a concrete rosemary tile, disabled the 'pop-up' mechanism, strapped the resulting homemade storage heater to the front of the driver's seat and wired it from a timeclock via the boot to come on for an hour before I departed. (half a kWh - worth every penny). Result - defrosted screen, warm steering wheel and warm thighs until the heater started to be effective.

de icing a screen. - corax

We used to have a long thin toaster, but one of the 500w elements irreparably failed. During the winter I inserted a concrete rosemary tile, disabled the 'pop-up' mechanism, strapped the resulting homemade storage heater to the front of the driver's seat and wired it from a timeclock via the boot to come on for an hour before I departed. (half a kWh - worth every penny).

That sounds safe :-)

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

I think that the snow overnight yestreday made clearing my car this morning that much easier - from experience, its far more work clearing a hard frost / iced up car that one with 3in of snow on it. I presume that's because the snow acts a bit like an insulator.

I do admit to using my de-icer spray, but only on the windscreen jet nozzles, which worked a treat. The car's heater did the rest along with my scraper. Got going within 5 mins, not bad, considering how much snow accumulated on the car.

I have successfully used the bowl of warm (not hot) water method on the windscreen before, just not today. It's usefulnesss (how quick it works) depends upon whether the snow comes before the temperature really drops or not, and I was glad to say that the snow came first last night. If it had come a few hours later, my car would've been completely iced up and much more of a pain to clear.

I'm also glad I got a higher-capacity battery this last time, as the car fired up no problems first time, despite not being used for 8 days.

de icing a screen. - Metropolis.
In a hurry recently and without a scraper to hand I found success in spraying the windscreen washer then operating the wiper blades. The water defrosted the screen and the wipers moved the slush away. Using quite concentrated screen wash. It being a petrol engine also helps, much faster warm up in my experience.. not sure if I am out of date on that!
de icing a screen. - paul 1963

I'm in the start engine and wait camp, I do have de icer but find it not very effective.

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

I'm in the start engine and wait camp, I do have de icer but find it not very effective.

I've found it can de-ice the windscreen, but as others have said, the evaporation effect reduces the temperature of the glass, often refreezing water on it unless the car engine and heater have been on long enough to negate that side-effect. The other problem is often how messy these sprays are, leaking all over my hand when in use.

Having a petrol-engined car helps as well, due to their relative inefficiency compared with diesels. I'd bet that EVs are struggling on the old range front at the mo, given how much juice they have to expend to warm the interior and windscreens.

Nasty this morning, with the overnigh temperature dropping well below zero freezing the lying snow on the roads/paths and condensation on cars after use. Probably worse conditions today (and will be for the next two or so) than yesterday.

de icing a screen. - Adampr

Yes and no on the EV. Range is definitely down, but I preheat mine via the app whilst it's still plugged in (and I'm having breakfast!)

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

Yes and no on the EV. Range is definitely down, but I preheat mine via the app whilst it's still plugged in (and I'm having breakfast!)

That's cheating! :-)

de icing a screen. - Andrew-T
I found success in spraying the windscreen washer then operating the wiper blades. The water defrosted the screen and the wipers moved the slush away.

The common problem there is that the spray nozzles will be frozen up, tho that is usually worst while driving, as the current of air causes the freezing. Maybe a car parked overnight is less susceptible.

de icing a screen. - Sofa Spud

I usually use warm water, I've done it for years with no ill effects. In fact I used to use hot water from a boiled kettle and that never did any damage either, but I figured that warm water would cause less of a heat shock.

Freezing temperatures in Britain are rarely more than a few degrees below zero. If we had really cold frosts, like -20C or -30C, then I'd think twice about warm water as the temperature difference would be greater!!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 13/12/2022 at 13:52

de icing a screen. - Xileno

Young lad a few doors away was defrosting his car this morning with what must have been hot water in a carrier bag. Placing the hot bag against the glass seemed to work. Not so impressed with him dumping the water in the road afterwards but there you go.

de icing a screen. - Crickleymal

Well we just had a white van go down our road (single track, houses both sides, limited visibility and not gritted). He was going above the 20mph speed limit and had to use a hedge to stop because his brakes didn't work on the icy road. Our roads a cul de sac so when he returned 5 minutes later he was still going above the speed limit. Some people just can't learn.

de icing a screen. - badbusdriver
Wed 14 Dec 2022 01:19

Well we just had a white van go down our road (single track, houses both sides, limited visibility and not gritted). He was going above the 20mph speed limit and had to use a hedge to stop because his brakes didn't work on the icy road. Our roads a cul de sac so when he returned 5 minutes later he was still going above the speed limit. Some people just can't learn.

At that time of the morning, wonder what he was up to?

;-)

de icing a screen. - Xileno

Anyone got any experience of that 'Night Before' spray? I've seen it in the shops and often wondered if it's any good.

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

Anyone got any experience of that 'Night Before' spray? I've seen it in the shops and often wondered if it's any good.

Sounds like a rather lewd product!!

de icing a screen. - FoxyJukebox
It’s called newspaper isn’t it?
de icing a screen. - Xileno

Not so easy to attach to the side windows but I have used it on the front in the past.

I think I will give it a miss after reading Bromptonaut's post and just stick to using tepid water.

de icing a screen. - Bromptonaut

Anyone got any experience of that 'Night Before' spray? I've seen it in the shops and often wondered if it's any good.

Used it years ago. Left a residue that smeared really badly and was a nightmare to remove, particularly from side windows.

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy
Wed 14 Dec 2022 01:19

Well we just had a white van go down our road (single track, houses both sides, limited visibility and not gritted). He was going above the 20mph speed limit and had to use a hedge to stop because his brakes didn't work on the icy road. Our roads a cul de sac so when he returned 5 minutes later he was still going above the speed limit. Some people just can't learn.

At that time of the morning, wonder what he was up to?

;-)

Indeed - either a very urgent delivery or something nefarious?

de icing a screen. - groaver

Our work fleet of Zoes have a good heater that acts fairly quickly to deice windscreens.

What I have noticed is the range on full charge going from 212 miles on a warm summer's day to 113 this morning with temperatures at -8oC this morning.

de icing a screen. - Bromptonaut

Went to pick up the caravan from storage this morning. Minus five when I left the house and even colder at the storage which we've long observed to be a frost pocket.

Couldn't get into the nose compartment even with de-icer in the lock - no access to crank for the corner steadies or the remote for the mover. Managed to get the steadies up using the car's wheel brace but had to hitch up without the mover - actually easier than I thought it would be.

Nose compartment's still frozen solid...

Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/12/2022 at 19:58

de icing a screen. - sammy1

Our work fleet of Zoes have a good heater that acts fairly quickly to deice windscreens.

What I have noticed is the range on full charge going from 212 miles on a warm summer's day to 113 this morning with temperatures at -8oC this morning.

Well that doesn't seem very clever. As well as losing range add on the additional cost for lost charge. Besides the purchase price of EVs another too apparent reason not to buy one. No wonder sales are reported to have stalled.

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

Our work fleet of Zoes have a good heater that acts fairly quickly to deice windscreens.

What I have noticed is the range on full charge going from 212 miles on a warm summer's day to 113 this morning with temperatures at -8oC this morning.

Well that doesn't seem very clever. As well as losing range add on the additional cost for lost charge. Besides the purchase price of EVs another too apparent reason not to buy one. No wonder sales are reported to have stalled.

I would say that EV sales have stalled because:

a) The price of electricity is now very high and the ultra high output public chargers are now more expensive than the per mile cost of equivalent ICE cars;

b) This was inevitable when the first wave of people who could easily afford to change (whether they needed to or not) had ended. That leaves people on lesser incomes who have to put virtue-signalling and fashion aside and be far more hard-headed (that's not to say everyone previously buying an EV was a narcistic virtue-signaller).

Especially when economic times are tough, money is short and most cars are physically lasting longer, hence less reason to change unless it's economic to do so.

The same was true when the Prius was first introduced many years ago. As the HJ article now shows, sales dropped off considerably over the years, leaving mostly minicab drivers in certain cities (e.g. London) that used to take a big advantage from the congestion charge waiver.

Now the new car (which is a looker from the outside) won't even be sold in the UK, probably because more people will go for the Corolla or, EVs.

c) The reality of EV ownership is likely dawing on many people who bought one for the wrong reasons. It may be that they still keep it, but that they may tell friends, colleagues and family members about said problems, putting others off buying.

d) Current supply chain, staffing and raw materials shortages and power supply / price issues have meant there's a much lower lid on the amount of cars that can be produced, whether EVs or ICE. How long this continues is anyone's guess given how many factors are at play. Until this is resolved, its likely that EV sales will at least plateau, if not drop off, especially when combined with the economic downturn worldwide.

The range issue only plays a part in that. A healthy dose of realism is a good thing.

de icing a screen. - Adampr

Yes, I think there is a limited market (people with drives and money). I am returning mine, not because I dislike it in any way, but mostly because I can easily have less on my monthly outgoings without it. My energy contracts are yet to expire but, when they do, I'd like to have plenty of room in my monthly budget to cover them.

I would have another in a heartbeat when things have stabilised again. The power delivery and refinement are addictive. I'm not sure I'd have another Vauxhall, though. £30k plus for acres of black plastic and slightly temperamental electrics is not good value. In fact, I would only lease or PCP any electric car; there's no way I'd want the risk of owning one.

de icing a screen. - Engineer Andy

Yes, I think there is a limited market (people with drives and money). I am returning mine, not because I dislike it in any way, but mostly because I can easily have less on my monthly outgoings without it. My energy contracts are yet to expire but, when they do, I'd like to have plenty of room in my monthly budget to cover them.

I would have another in a heartbeat when things have stabilised again. The power delivery and refinement are addictive. I'm not sure I'd have another Vauxhall, though. £30k plus for acres of black plastic and slightly temperamental electrics is not good value. In fact, I would only lease or PCP any electric car; there's no way I'd want the risk of owning one.

Saw a couple of Corsa EVs in my local former Vauxhall (now indie chain second hand dealer only) main dealer - 1-2yo versions going for £20k - £24k. Ouch. I'd rather have the Insignia (not sure if it were a petrol of diesel) saloon next to them that was double the age but about half the price.

Can't see them getting many customers at present - they haven't bothered to fully grit the entrance to their customer parking area, which is up a slope. Bad enough trying to use the filling station using the same entrance.

de icing a screen. - FoxyJukebox
Just tried a hot water bottle!
Worked a treat!
de icing a screen. - Alby Back
De-icing a car was much easier decades ago when I smoked.
Turn the engine on, crank up the heater and blowers, shut the door, lean on a wall, spark up a stogie, smoke it, get in car and drive off.
;-)
de icing a screen. - edlithgow
De-icing a car was much easier decades ago when I smoked. Turn the engine on, crank up the heater and blowers, shut the door, lean on a wall, spark up a stogie, smoke it, get in car and drive off. ;-)

Even more dangerous than the full Scottish breakfast.