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Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Metropolis.

Saw a relatively modern Mercedes saloon this evening, possibly a CLS. It was very foggy so the driver had put their rear fog light on. Yes, singular, one solitary fog light at the rear of the car. At some points in the fog it looked like a motorbike! How much would it have cost Mercedes to put two rear fog lights in....

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Xileno

Quite normal for cars to have only one I think. I expect the bean counters had the final say!

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Bromptonaut

Quite normal for cars to have only one I think. I expect the bean counters had the final say!

Yup, only one is required but IIRC it has to be offside.

Can be a styling thing where the nearside is a reversing light and offside a fog light.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Metropolis.
It appears centre is allowed too

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/11/...e
Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - bathtub tom

Seems sensible to me. If there were two rear foglights, how would you tell them apart from brakelights?

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Metropolis.
All my cars have had two rear fog lights. Im struggling to see how them looking like brake lights (which they dont imo particularly as fog lights are permanantly on when used and have a different glow) could be a disadvantage?
Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - elekie&a/c doctor
Can’t think of many cars with 2 rear fog lights .
Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Metropolis.
Lexus do
Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - movilogo

My Kia Ceed has 2 fog lights at the rear.

Other than aesthetics, it does not make much difference. I don't see much point in them anyway - both for front & rear fog lamps, though they look nice.

I have found one use for them, In thick fog in country lanes, when car in front has fog lamps on, it is easier to follow while still keeping a distance.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Gibbo_Wirral

Yep, my 20 year old Peugeot 206 has a centre one.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - mcb100
Nowhere near unusual just to have one rear fog light.
You see if from a distance, it does what it’s supposed to do and lets you know there’s a vehicle there.
As you get closer and see the tail lights it’s distinguishable as a car.
Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Crickleymal

Meh. So long as it's visible who cares?

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - paul 1963

Fairly sure my van has two rear fog lamps?? My car has just the one.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - RT

I seem to recall that only one fog lamp is allowed in Germany, and can be anywhere left of the centreline on LHD - for RHD car in the UK some makers switch the single lamp to the other side, others simply add one on the right.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - John F

I seem to recall that only one fog lamp is allowed in Germany, and can be anywhere left of the centreline on LHD - for RHD car in the UK some makers switch the single lamp to the other side, others simply add one on the right.

What a shining example of dangerous BBS (british boneheaded stupidity) presumably from thoughtless people who rarely travel on crowded wet foggy motorways at night. I have mentioned this before on this site - I once nearly ran into the back of someone on the M1 because the two foglights were so bright it took a valuable fraction of a second to realise the brake lights had come on.

The Germans have got it absolutely right - nothing to to do with cost cutting. All my Audis have had a single rear fog light. (My TR7 has two foglights, but they are slung below the bumper, well away from the brakelights).

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Andrew-T

<< thoughtless people who rarely travel on crowded wet foggy motorways at night. >>

I would have thought that those people (I am certainly not one of them) probably had trickier problems to deal with in those conditions than the one which almost caught you out, John. I agree that foglamps can be excruciatingly bright close-up, but if they weren't, most of their real purpose is lost.

The worse aspect is brilliant foglamp(s) left on when no longer needed.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - RT

I seem to recall that only one fog lamp is allowed in Germany, and can be anywhere left of the centreline on LHD - for RHD car in the UK some makers switch the single lamp to the other side, others simply add one on the right.

What a shining example of dangerous BBS (british boneheaded stupidity) presumably from thoughtless people who rarely travel on crowded wet foggy motorways at night. I have mentioned this before on this site - I once nearly ran into the back of someone on the M1 because the two foglights were so bright it took a valuable fraction of a second to realise the brake lights had come on.

The Germans have got it absolutely right - nothing to to do with cost cutting. All my Audis have had a single rear fog light. (My TR7 has two foglights, but they are slung below the bumper, well away from the brakelights).

Should have gone to Specsavers! Fog lights are the same intensity as brake lights - AND - required to be a minimum distance from the brake lights.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - mcb100
Same 21W (or equivalent) bulb, certainly. But I’m guessing a different lens design to project a more focused output than a brake light. So appearing brighter when directly behind it.

Edited by mcb100 on 29/11/2022 at 10:57

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - John F

The Germans have got it absolutely right - nothing to to do with cost cutting. All my Audis have had a single rear fog light.....

Should have gone to Specsavers! Fog lights are the same intensity as brake lights....

Not always. Some are brighter - especially if upgraded by their owners - possibly the same sort of people who put them on when ordinary tail lights can still be seen half a mile away.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - mcb100
Over the course of a typical 30,000 mile year, I maybe switch rear fog lamps on once or maybe twice, and then only for short periods of time.
Simple reason, if I can see someone behind me then there’s a fair chance they can see me. No way would I use them with a car close behind.
The only time they get used is when there’s no one in sight in the mirror, and if a faster car catches me then the rear fogs will give a bit more warning. As soon as they’re within range of my fogs causing dazzle of confusion with brake lights, they (or it) go off.
That way there’s no chance of them being left on once the weather lifts.

Edited by mcb100 on 29/11/2022 at 10:05

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - alan1302

It's been very foggy here in Yorkshire today and I think the majority of cars only have one fog lamp.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Brit_in_Germany

I thought they usually have the fog light on one side and the reversing light, in the same place, on the other.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - paul 1963

I thought they usually have the fog light on one side and the reversing light, in the same place, on the other.

Not so, my Vitara has a fog light on the offside, reverse light is in the middle low down beneath the bumper.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - gordonbennet

Without checking i couldn't tell you which if any of our cars have one or two rear fogs, simple reason being never use them, test them for MOT obviously.

I know there's two on the back of my work lorry because the vehicle automatically sequences through all the lights for daily checks.

Haven't had to use rear fogs for more years than i can remember, probably several decades, in typical UK fog these days they're more dangerous in use because the extra brightness of brake lights don't show up to the same degree, being seen is all very well but as we've discussed on the lighting thread it's got out of hand now and gone way over the top, its a bit like everyone being required to wear a hivis in work environments, they're everywhere with people even wearing them whilst driving and in canteens...funny how when you look at old footage all the workers are in jeans, not a hivis to be seen yet oddly enough we all survived, we've gone H&S overkill now.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Adampr

To be fair, we didn't ALL survive. 495 fatal injuries in the workplace in 1981, 123 last year.

Of the 123 last year, the second most common cause was 'struck by vehicle'.

H&S is very dull, but I've had one fatality on a site and one who was extremely lucky so I'm all for pushing it.

I agree on fog lights, though. I never use mine.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Metropolis.

Seems like i'm in a minority of 1 here, can see the validity of points made by all. Maybe not that dangerous, but still cost cutting imo and if I were buying a Mercedes I would hope for better personally. Every car I have owned has had two rear fog lights, and two front fog lights.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - corax

The only car I owned that had two rear fog lights was an Opel Monza, and I did use them on that car very early in the morning at the start of a long journey to Scotland in thick fog in December. I've also used them sometimes when driving through thick bands of fog, but you have to be responsible and turn them off when clear again.

Maybe they aren't so worthwhile since the improvement in rear lights over the years until recently where they are now of ridiculous intensity. On the old cars some rear lights could be really feeble, and the fog light would be more useful in that situation.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Andrew-T

Maybe they aren't so worthwhile since the improvement in rear lights over the years until recently where they are now of ridiculous intensity. On the old cars some rear lights could be really feeble, and the fog light would be more useful in that situation.

I'm sure part of the problem is makers' attempt to ensure that all necessary lamps are bright enough to be seen in sunshine. But no attempt is made to weaken them in darkness, which is ridiculous when the car's computers perform all kinds of more complex things. Even back in the 1960s Triumph cars had a relay to dim rear lights when headlamps were on. Didn't last very long, no doubt the bean counters axed it for cost reasons. It would be much cheaper nowadays - a trivial gizmo compared to some of the others.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - bathtub tom

Should be simple to dim the lights, my dash illumination has been dimming automatically when the lights go on in numerous cars over the years.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - John F

.Maybe they aren't so worthwhile since the improvement in rear lights over the years until recently where they are now of ridiculous intensity. On the old cars some rear lights could be really feeble, and the fog light would be more useful in that situation.

Good point. Rear foglights are more of a hindrance than help these days. I think they are now an anachronistic superfluity.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - leaseman

I'm with you John, and, like Gordonbennet, cannot remember the last time I used my rear foglights. If all drivers behaved like mcb100, the roads would be so much safer environments, so well done that person for using driving aids intelligently. Unfortunately, the majority of drivers (50% of whom are, by definition, below average intelligence) don't really understand the consequences of their action, or inaction!

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Engineer Andy

Saw a relatively modern Mercedes saloon this evening, possibly a CLS. It was very foggy so the driver had put their rear fog light on. Yes, singular, one solitary fog light at the rear of the car. At some points in the fog it looked like a motorbike! How much would it have cost Mercedes to put two rear fog lights in....

Be thankful that at least they had their fog light(s) on in actual foggy conditions. Many people don't or leave them on when not needed these days. Some even drive in the dark without any lights on, because they often forget because a built up area is well lit.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - galileo

Saw a relatively modern Mercedes saloon this evening, possibly a CLS. It was very foggy so the driver had put their rear fog light on. Yes, singular, one solitary fog light at the rear of the car. At some points in the fog it looked like a motorbike! How much would it have cost Mercedes to put two rear fog lights in....

Be thankful that at least they had their fog light(s) on in actual foggy conditions. Many people don't or leave them on when not needed these days. Some even drive in the dark without any lights on, because they often forget because a built up area is well lit.

Cars with no rear lights at night probably have nice bright DRLs so they think their lights are on.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - bathtub tom

Cars with no rear lights at night probably have nice bright DRLs so they think their lights are on.

When I told one such driver, they replied: " Yes they're on, I can see them from the driving seat".

Another: "They told me the lights were automatic".

I dread this time of year as you see so many cars with their rear fogs on. I suspect they don't know how to turn them on and get them instead of the HRW, or press buttons at random in the hope of turning on the HRW. So as well as being blinded by them unnecessarily, the muppets can't see out the back because their screen's misted up.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - badbusdriver

I use pretty much the same logic as mcb, if I am travelling at a safe distance from the car in front and I can clearly see its rear lights, then there is obviously no need to put fog light on. Sadly this logic seem totally alien to most drivers I encounter in foggy conditions. Fog light goes on at the merest hint of foggy conditions and that's it till they reach their destination!.

What irks me most are those who have their fog light on, but believe the visibility is good enough for them to be overtaking other cars on single carriageway roads.

But I do actually use mine fairly regular as there are a couple of spots I regularly travel through which, for whatever reason, are particularly prone to fog. At times this can be thick enough to necessitate slowing to 30mph or less!.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Brit_in_Germany

The is a certain degree of logic to the German traffic rules. Fog lights are only allowed if visibility is less than 50 m and if visibility is less than 50 m, the maximum allowed speed is 50 kmh.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Adampr

News just in from a fairly foggy M5 through Somerset:. Probably about 20% of cars had their fog lights on. HGVs around 50% but the tail lights on their trailers are pretty miserable.

Of the cars, I saw 4 (in 50 minutes) with two rear fogs; an Audi, an Alfa, a Ford Focus and something else.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - corax

On a slightly different note, I was driving home tonight when something was flashed out of turning, I think it was a Tesla, and the offside main led lamp was misaligned. I only glanced at it to check what the car was doing, but it left a small bright green imprint in the middle of my retina for about a minute afterwards, it was so bright. Maybe the owner had swapped them for those banned lasers that were being aimed at aircraft.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Bilboman

The widespread adoption of single rear foglights may be down to cost cutting or it may be for safety - the most obvious argument being to distinguish them from brake lights. Surely the best way to do that would be to have a rear fog light(s) in a clearly different shape, such as a triangle or even circle (remember the Rover SD1?) Maybe a different colour such as green would solve that, although some i**** would mistake them for traffic lights or a doctor on call sooner or later.
I'd be interested to know what the rules are in the USA, where the ridiculous fad for using brake lights to double up as rear indicators seems set to continue.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Andrew-T

Surely the best way to do that would be to have a rear fog light(s) in a clearly different shape, such as a triangle or even circle (remember the Rover SD1?) Maybe a different colour such as green would solve that, although some i**** would mistake them for traffic lights or a doctor on call sooner or later..

Foglights are intended to be seen from distance. I can't believe most people's vision would be able to recognise the shape of a distant bright light, especially in fog.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - Terry W

Rear fog lights reduce the probability that some numpty will tail end me as they cruise at 90mph with 50m visibility

Mercedes clearly believe that all cars are fitted with radar controlled autonomous braking so there must be no need for any lights - certainly not rear fogs.

Mercedes are not immune from cost pressures - in many ways they have done the impossible (along with BMW and Audi) in remaining competitive while continuing most manufacturing off a very high German cost base.

Mercedes - Dangerous cost cutting - barney100

Having had a few Mercs I must say no one has failed to see me in the fog. I hate the rear fogs when someone dosen't switch them off when the fog has gone.