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State of the roads - privateinvestor

Just had to drive 10 miles accross South West London, state of the roads is truly awful, especially within the boroughs of Merton and Sutton. The road network is in managed decline and having checked council budgets some councils, eg Merton are cutting even further as budgets are static over next 5 years - so adjusting for inflation a cut of 30% assuming 5% inflation. As an example Merton has pencilled in £1m of investment in road repairs over next 5 years pa. Adding to the cuts from TFL - can we claim to be a world class city.

State of the roads - Metropolis.
Sadly, most councils seem to be run by eco types who think the end is nigh and private car ownership is a menace, not an achievement. Don’t expect much to change in London especially.

Edited by Metropolis. on 19/02/2022 at 12:55

State of the roads - focussed
Sadly, most councils seem to be run by eco types who think the end is nigh and private car ownership is a menace, not an achievement. Don’t expect much to change in London especially.

Being anti-car they regard the repairing of roads as a pact with the devil, and it's much easier to neglect road surfaces and not repair potholes in order to reduce traffic speeds, as speeding is the only cause of traffic accidents in their book.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

Just had to drive 10 miles accross South West London, state of the roads is truly awful, especially within the boroughs of Merton and Sutton. The road network is in managed decline and having checked council budgets some councils, eg Merton are cutting even further as budgets are static over next 5 years - so adjusting for inflation a cut of 30% assuming 5% inflation. As an example Merton has pencilled in £1m of investment in road repairs over next 5 years pa. Adding to the cuts from TFL - can we claim to be a world class city.

It's been like that nationwide since the 1990s, increasing as each decade goes by. Councils, on the other hand, have increased the budget for worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors.

Whilst that's their fault, voters should also share much of the blame because so few people bother to take an active interest in local issues - until they directly affect them and theirs - as demonstrated by the woefully low voter turnouts at council elections outside of on General Election Day and the continued back-and-forth of the same lot of worthless party hacks for many decades.

I think things won't change unless and until REALLY bad stuff happens, as evidenced from the US where locals have 'had enough' and are rapidly getting involved. I can't see that happening here for a few years at least (much as I would like it to), which, at least as far as the roads go, will mean the network gets worse and worse with more and more of a backlog for repairs.

Few councils bothered to take advantage of the very low traffic levels during the lockdowns to do major projects or repairs - some were done, but many (including in my area and others relayed to me by family and friends) were delayed until afterwards, or scrapped altogether.

One in my area was done in reverse - the resurfaced a road a few months ago, they dug some of it up again to install new traffic lights, then did so AGAIN to repair and install drainage pipes - despite the lights being known as regularly faulty, and the cause of the flooding which broke the road surface up being reported several times, which was obviously clogged or insufficient to cope (and reported as such on several occasions, including by me). They also resurfaced a 400m section of road that didn't need doing. Incompetent wasteful loons.

Whilst some may blame COVID spending for this (as well as 'restrictions), the (often very costly) virtue-signalling all went ahead, and I would say increased. That shows there was money and personel available. Roadworks are probably the safest in a pandemic because they are undertaken outdoors, and yet...

State of the roads - Steveieb

One of the problems which has exacerbated the deterioration of roads in my area is the number of start up companies offering fibre to villages where BT have been slow off the mark.

So they get permission to lay fibre often with low take up from customers and their contractors carry out substandard reinstatement.

The council fail to check on the work, due to lack of engineers, and when residents complain the council find that the contractor responsible was set up to do the work and then go out of business.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

One of the problems which has exacerbated the deterioration of roads in my area is the number of start up companies offering fibre to villages where BT have been slow off the mark.

So they get permission to lay fibre often with low take up from customers and their contractors carry out substandard reinstatement.

The council fail to check on the work, due to lack of engineers, and when residents complain the council find that the contractor responsible was set up to do the work and then go out of business.

Exactly - living on a private development (essentially just non-adopted roads - another very convenient ploy by councils to shirk their responsibilities but still getting full council tax) we've had problems with contractors working for utilitiy companies doing a bad job when repairing their own services and reinstating the road/pathways.

The number of times I could count generally where utility firms dig up the roads within a few days/weeks of a road being resurfaced is truly shocking. Apparently councils get paid very handsomely but them to do this. In the end, local taxpayers foot the bill.

State of the roads - Bromptonaut

It's been like that nationwide since the 1990s, increasing as each decade goes by. Councils, on the other hand, have increased the budget for worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors.

If you're suggesting that money sufficient to maintain the roads has been spent on worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors the I'll call bull excrement.

The issue for Councils is that their budgets, set by Whitehall/Westminster, have borne the brunt of the post 2010 austerity.

State of the roads - bathtub tom

I wonder if the OP bothers to report individual problems? I do, via 'fix my street'. It's then available for the public to view and if damage is caused by for example a bad pothole, then the relevant council have no defence if it's not repaired promptly.

State of the roads - pd

In most areas of the UK the Council which is responsible for the local roads is also responsible for adult social care. That's where the money is going, not on a few sandwiches for Councillors.

In some areas it is taking 70% of the entire Council budget and growing almost exponentially.

As that grows and income can't keep pace other things get squeezed.

State of the roads - Sofa Spud

In our area the council seems to resurface roads that already have a good surface while neglecting the roads that really need resurfacing.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 19/02/2022 at 17:29

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

In our area the council seems to resurface roads that already have a good surface while neglecting the roads that really need resurfacing.

Exactly what happened in my area - they should've only done the area around the traffic lights (after fixing the drains and changing the lights) and left the other several hundred metres as it was in good condition.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

It's been like that nationwide since the 1990s, increasing as each decade goes by. Councils, on the other hand, have increased the budget for worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors.

If you're suggesting that money sufficient to maintain the roads has been spent on worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors the I'll call bull excrement.

The issue for Councils is that their budgets, set by Whitehall/Westminster, have borne the brunt of the post 2010 austerity.

No need for that sort of language inference. If you can't recognise many such instances of the wasteful and virtue-signally spending by councils (as well as governments*), then I'm sorry for you. Not surprised though.

Even when local council money via government dropped doesn't mean that the councils themselves weren't wasting money on an industrial scale. It just meant for a while they had less to waste.

* I've never said central government doesn't waste money either.

State of the roads - groaver

It's been like that nationwide since the 1990s, increasing as each decade goes by. Councils, on the other hand, have increased the budget for worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors....

That is so laughably untrue.

As is said above, local government is bearing the brunt of cuts upon cuts and yet had to fund more and more social care.

Roads across the UK will be poor with little work on them since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

It's been like that nationwide since the 1990s, increasing as each decade goes by. Councils, on the other hand, have increased the budget for worthless virtue-signalling 'initiatives' and schemes, as well as trips, perks and 'expenses' for councillors....

That is so laughably untrue.

As is said above, local government is bearing the brunt of cuts upon cuts and yet had to fund more and more social care.

Roads across the UK will be poor with little work on them since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic.

And yet my local council (Lib/Lab pact) spends loads on woke virtue-signalling measures, and yes, my county council (yes, Tory) stopped road repairs until recently and then proceded to waste it as I described - one job probably to the tune of several £100ks. Odd how they can fund 'diversity' staff to the tune of £000ks, pull Police away from front line duties to do woke stuff, etc, etc

The problem is that it is just as much the fault of the council managers and contractors as it is the politicians, who don't manage day-to-day operations.

I see and hear about similar things going on in many other areas of the UK.

State of the roads - Terry W

In my area Somerset County Council have responsibility for the roads. Comments related to lack of maintenance, lack of coordination creating congestion, failure to plan for new housing demands, etc etc are common.

Their total spend in 2020/21 was £346m of which £142m was adult services, £18m schools, and £90m childrens services - 72% of total spend.

Understandably they are very sensitive to shortcomings in adult and kids services - the bits that suffer are those from which most of us benefit and have least central interference or regulation - decent roads, theatres, parks, refuse collection etc

AFAIK central government sets no regulations on frequency of refuse collection - reducing frequency lowers cost, and gets a tick in the environment box for recycling - win-win.

Parking fees go direct to the council - no rules on cost per hour.

Potholes may be a national disgrace - but a few burst tyres and trashed alloys won't butter any parsnips.

I am not defending council efficiency and management but if we want better services it will cost more or existing spend will need to be curtailed - higher taxes.

The aggregate of all that interest groups feel justified and ideally want far exceeds that which is affordable. Just as most folk have to make choices as not all can be immediately afforded - eg: new kitchen, or holiday, or replace car, or school fees etc.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

I thought that councils often deliberately targets 'cuts' to sensitive services (politically) to try and batter government to raise or further raise their handouts from central taxation.

I remember people saying that why doesn't councils get funded solely from locals - the problem with that is that it enabled mismanaged , heavily ideological and/or corrupt councils (depending upon who was in the the make-up of the council services staff politically) could burn through and more all the money, then go cap-in-hand and bankrupt to central government to bail them out, which is exactly what many Labour councils did in the 1980s. I remember newspaper headlines of certain councils having larger debts than many (then) 'Third World' countries.

Supposedly many councils (often Tory) now sit of large reserves - even after the pandemic has run most of its course - you have to wonder what catestrophic event are they exactly waiting for before delving into that fund.

The problem I find is that the policies at local level often keep the areas poor and dependent upon welfare and government handouts as much as national policy by central governing parties. How and what money is spent seems to be more about short term wheezes, out-dated / wasteful practices, incompetence and then blaming eachother come election time.

Rinse and repeat.

I think that, despite many people's differences here, the vast majority of us could easily do a far better job running things than most politicians or officials, nationally or locally. The problem is that the politics / backstabbing and cronyism put off and/or prevent the vast majority of ordinary people from going into politics or be civil servants.

I went half way by working for a PFI organisation for a while on The Tube, but got out after a couple of years at how badly the whole setup was run (on all sides). It's also why I shied away as much as I could from work as an engineer generally on public sector projects.

I also have enough politics going on working (FOC and doing way more than my job description for many years) as a 'resident Director' of my housing development's residents' association, and I wouldn't want to get involved as a councillor for any of the established political parties because the whole system is corrupt and worthless.

I think what we need to get things done properly at local as well as national level is for sufficient ordinary people to care sufficiently about issues affecting them to get to the end of their tether and get involved, possibly even clubbing together to oust local politicians and make sure thinsg are run better.

I suspect that won't happen unless and until things get bad enough that it really matter that much, as its doing (say) in parts of the USA regarding children's education.

Road repairs won't as has been said, be much of a 'hot button' issue because other things are normally worse.

State of the roads - Terry W

Local democracy is broken.

Where I live the council tax for a Band D property (average) is £1900. £1350 (70%) goes to Somerset County Council, £330 (17%) to police and fire services, leaving the local council and parishes with £220 (12%).

The local council has little influence on what happens locally. The changes can only come from central government who impose the process and priorities on local and county councils, and agree funding levels.

This is not a party political point - left and right have played the same game for decades. There is some truth in the proposition that we get who we collectively vote for - and if we fail to even exercise that vote we deserve what we get.

State of the roads - pd

You don't want more "ordinary people" involved in local politics. The problem is the pay is rubbish, the hours long and the crap you take is huge. You need more smart people but most people with half a brain wouldn't go near.

Too many local councillors only contribution is to do a litterpick but they are not the people you need. You need smart people who can understand complicated finances and concepts.

On most Councils many Councillors never read the papers they are sent either because they are not interested, can't understand them or in some cases can't read.

Edited by pd on 20/02/2022 at 09:30

State of the roads - John F

In most areas of the UK the Council which is responsible for the local roads is also responsible for adult social care. That's where the money is going, not on a few sandwiches for Councillors.

Spot on. Can't help thinking it's part of the general corrosive effect of our society's acceptance of single motherhood with free housing now being a viable career option.

State of the roads - primus 1

Wasn’t the ved rates changed in 2017 by the then chancellor George Osborne to be spent on the roads from 2020., ?

Edited by primus 1 on 20/02/2022 at 09:49

State of the roads - Bromptonaut

Spot on. Can't help thinking it's part of the general corrosive effect of our society's acceptance of single motherhood with free housing now being a viable career option.

Spoiler alert; it's not.

State of the roads - Andrew-T

There are all kinds of reasons for the apparent deterioration in road condition. Most of those already mentioned are reasons where blame can be placed anonymously elsewhere. Some others:

Until the arrival of Covid traffic had grown steadily, as had maximum loads and power output from engines - all of which tend to shorten the life of road surfaces. Damage often concentrates in places requiring hill-starts, or where drivers often accelerate hard.

Drivers don't like obstructive temporary traffic controls, which are usually needed to do a proper repair job, rather than a two-man patching team whose repairs tend to be rather short-lived.

State of the roads - Xileno

Where I live (West Wilts) they seem quick to repair a pot hole but the repair doesn't last long. Usually a van turns up with some cold-set tarmac, it's compacted down and that's it. The problem is when the next heavy rain comes it just washes out. There's a particularly bad one just at the end of the road, with the way the rain flows across the road at that point it's usually back to a deep pothole in a few weeks.

State of the roads - galileo

Where I live (West Wilts) they seem quick to repair a pot hole but the repair doesn't last long. Usually a van turns up with some cold-set tarmac, it's compacted down and that's it. The problem is when the next heavy rain comes it just washes out. There's a particularly bad one just at the end of the road, with the way the rain flows across the road at that point it's usually back to a deep pothole in a few weeks.

Similar problems here, but far worse council policies which resulted in many roads being closed, pedestrianised, narrowed to give extra wide pavements ("to help pedestrians keep 2 metres apart in the town centre) and to install each way cycle lanes to and from the Bus station and the railway station.

What twisted imagination thinks cyclists need cycle lanes for 400 yards between bus and rail stations?

Just part of this authority's plan to make it impossible to visit the town centre except by bus, bike or legs (they have also shut a multi story car park).

Tough luck if you are old, disabled or would want to buy heavy or bulky articles in the town. Oh, they have also reduced space for taxis, maybe the council planners have shares in out-of-town shopping centres, they have certainly killed a lot of the town centre shops.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

Where I live (West Wilts) they seem quick to repair a pot hole but the repair doesn't last long. Usually a van turns up with some cold-set tarmac, it's compacted down and that's it. The problem is when the next heavy rain comes it just washes out. There's a particularly bad one just at the end of the road, with the way the rain flows across the road at that point it's usually back to a deep pothole in a few weeks.

Indeed - I've seen that happen a LOT on a local re-occurring pothole at the edge of a speed bump.

My county council has also tried a spray - sort of like tiny sticky chippings (similar texture to the 'abrasive' surface just before junctions to aid braking) - for some potholes. It too appears to work for just a few weeks because it never has time to set before being in use.

According to my housing development's handyman/gardener, cold tarmac should really only be used on pathways or lightly-use roads at best for the same reason.

He used it as a trial on a section of pathway that had been split open by tree roots - it looked very poor (lots of gaps and humped) for weeks, then slowly compacted down (though still not anywhere near as good as hot laid tarmac would) via foot traffic and is now completely flat - though not smooth. Not sure if we'll use it again.

State of the roads - Xileno

For anyone with a spare five mins, maybe this is future

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_-wzdhpK8

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

I bet that doesn't come cheap to buy or hire! It looks far better suited to medium-sized jobs - larger or multiple potholes near eachother. Still needs the lorry for the tarmac and steamroller though.

State of the roads - Terry W

Why do we still call them "steamrollers" when they were last used over 0 years ago?

State of the roads - Manatee

More commonly called road rollers or just rollers now I think.

State of the roads - Engineer Andy

Why do we still call them "steamrollers" when they were last used over 0 years ago?

The name was popular and (for me any way) just stuck, rather like many of us still often call vacuum cleaners 'hoovers', ballpoint pens 'biros' and cola as 'Coke' I suppose.

State of the roads - RichT54

Potholes can be dangerous and damage vehicles, but here's an example of a road in a truly awful state:

The B4069 near Lyneham in Wiltshire has buckled in places, leaving huge cracks in the road, due to subsidence.

An emergency road closure was put in place on 17 February but police said some drivers were ignoring it, putting themselves and workers in danger.

Wiltshire Council said it was awaiting a report from geotechnical specialists.

Local residents claim the subsidence has been getting worse over the last year and that a landslip was inevitable. An investigation is under way into the cause.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-60490051