Pulling out of junction liability

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Wed 7 Jul 2021 17:33

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Hi,

I unfortunately had a collision pulling out of a junction recently. The one way road appeared clear on checking but then as I pulled out another vehicle appeared at speed travelling the wrong way down said one way road.

Insurance have taken the position that because my vehicle was pulling out from a junction that I am at fault end of story. The fact that the other driver was driving at speed, illegally the wrong way down a one way road doesn’t seem to be a consideration!

Are these situations always open and shut cases with the driver pulling out always being at fault no matter what or can there sometimes be some leeway due to certain circumstances (like the other party driving the wrong way down a one way road ??)

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

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Wed 7 Jul 2021 19:24

Pulling out of junction liability - bathtub tom

Have you reported it to the police?

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Wed 7 Jul 2021 20:06

Pulling out of junction liability - sammy1

Seems crazy! Do you have legal cover on your insurance, no need to assume that it on the side of the insurance administrators, you may even be able to sue the other driver for any monetary losses

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 18:03

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Have you reported it to the police?

Not yet, though I think I will do this now.

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Wed 7 Jul 2021 20:10

Pulling out of junction liability - FP

I would have thought that the other driver is in a very weak position indeed. However, it was still the responsibility of yourself to avoid a collision if at all possible.

Still, I really cannot see the logic or justice in pinning 100% of the blame on you.

As has been said, the police need to be involved, as there is a potential serious offence by the other driver.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 12:53

Pulling out of junction liability - Gibbo_Wirral

Isn't it legal to reverse down a one way street? If so then you still need to look both ways.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 17:14

Pulling out of junction liability - Andrew-T

Isn't it legal to reverse down a one way street? If so then you still need to look both ways.

.... if only for cyclists, many of whom believe that pedestrian rules apply to them.

But a car reversing down a one-way street (legally or not) should not be doing so at breakneck speed.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 18:11

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Isn't it legal to reverse down a one way street? If so then you still need to look both ways.

The driver wasn’t reversing, he was driving the wrong way down the one way road.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 18:08

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

I would have thought that the other driver is in a very weak position indeed. However, it was still the responsibility of yourself to avoid a collision if at all possible.

Still, I really cannot see the logic or justice in pinning 100% of the blame on you.

As has been said, the police need to be involved, as there is a potential serious offence by the other driver.

I honestly expected the other driver to be in a weak position also which is why I was shocked by the insurer’s decision.

I may well to get the police involved now as you say.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 18:55

Pulling out of junction liability - FP

I would have got the police involved immediately.

How long is it since the incident?

Edited by FP on 08/07/2021 at 18:56

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 20:18

Pulling out of junction liability - Bromptonaut

I'd expect to look both ways before joining a one way street. Apart from somebody who has misread a sign or ignored it there are dozens of one way streets that cyclists or even buses can use 'wrong way'.

What if there's a pedestrian in the road.

Nearest analogy is a red light; you still look for the person jumping it deliberately, an emergency vehicle or the clot who has 'read through' to the next green.

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 18:40

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

I'd expect to look both ways before joining a one way street. Apart from somebody who has misread a sign or ignored it there are dozens of one way streets that cyclists or even buses can use 'wrong way'.

What if there's a pedestrian in the road.

Nearest analogy is a red light; you still look for the person jumping it deliberately, an emergency vehicle or the clot who has 'read through' to the next green.

I do look both ways. Unfortunately on both sides of this particular side road there are wharehouse type buildings and though the left and straight ahead are in clear view it is not possible to get an entirely clear view to the right until just about pulled out into the one way road.

“What if there's a pedestrian in the road” - well there could well have been a pedestrian further down the road not expecting a car to come round the bend in the wrong direction, or indeed a cyclist or another vehicle travelling in the correct direction which could have led to a head on collision.

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 21:32

Pulling out of junction liability - focussed

Hi,

I unfortunately had a collision pulling out of a junction recently. The one way road appeared clear on checking but then as I pulled out another vehicle appeared at speed travelling the wrong way down said one way road.

Insurance have taken the position that because my vehicle was pulling out from a junction that I am at fault end of story. The fact that the other driver was driving at speed, illegally the wrong way down a one way road doesn’t seem to be a consideration!

Are these situations always open and shut cases with the driver pulling out always being at fault no matter what or can there sometimes be some leeway due to certain circumstances (like the other party driving the wrong way down a one way road ??)

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

It all comes down to the Highway code.

Most likely there would have been a give way sign before the end of the road you pulled out of, and a broken line on the road at the end of the road.

Possibly, there may have been a Stop sign and a solid line.

Rule 171

You MUST stop behind the line at a junction with a ‘Stop’ sign and a solid white line across the road. Wait for a safe gap in the traffic before you move off.

Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 16

Rule 172

The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.

The word "must" means it's not advisory it's the law and contravening it means you commit an offence.

That is why your insurance company have come to their decision that you are liable.

Do you really want to involve the police?

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Thu 8 Jul 2021 22:37

Pulling out of junction liability - sammy1

Give way means just that you need not stop if nothing is coming, If the road you are leaving has a stop sign and two solid white lines than you must stop. However as you approach a one way system there will be a great big arrow telling you and more than likely a further arrow opposite the junction indicating the flow of traffic. So you naturally look for traffic coming from the direction that the arrow indicates Depending on the nature of the junction and views offered who the hell would you expect a speeding vehicle going against the flow. How do we know that the one way road is even straight This is how accidents happen either an innocent mistake by the driver going the wrong way or one of many who have no regard for the rest. Regardless they are 100% the cause of this accident. If a pedestrian only looks the one way knowing there should be no cars coming the other way who's fault is that?

There is no hope for the rest of us if we are to be blamed for others breaking the Highway. code

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 18:45

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

There are no Stop or Give Way signs. The only sign at the end of the road I pulled out of is a One Way sign with an arrow pointing right. Also there are no lines or other markings on the road.

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 21:20

Pulling out of junction liability - Brit_in_Germany

Inwhich case rule 146 of the highway code kicks in soat least 50/50 but with driving the wrong way would lead to the other party being predominantly at fault.

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 22:30

Pulling out of junction liability - sammy1

Who would be liable on a duel carriageway or motorway when someone is going the wrong way? Are you automatically at fault when they run into you just for driving normally and not being able to get out of the way thus being involved in a collision

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 22:37

Pulling out of junction liability - FP

"Who would be liable on a duel [dual] carriageway or motorway when someone is going the wrong way?"

While every driver has an obligation to try to avoid a collision, I would expect the amount of blame to be in proportion to the options available.

In the case MM has presented, maybe he could have prevented a collision - maybe.

But if presented with an oncoming vehicle on a motorway (especially at speed) in many cases you won't be able to do much.

Edited by FP on 09/07/2021 at 22:37

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Fri 9 Jul 2021 22:58

Pulling out of junction liability - bathtub tom

Perhaps if the OP could post a google maps satellite view of the junction we'd all have a better idea.

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Sat 10 Jul 2021 14:05

Pulling out of junction liability - movilogo

While this is an unfortunate event, the insurer is right on this I think.

You admitted that you only looked at the correct way [because it was 1-way] and the other car came wrong way - however it could have been a cyclist who you'd have hit and it could be lot worse.

Do you have any dash cam footage? Even then the other driver could be at most prosecuted for the traffic violation and not for this accident.

Having a claim does not increase premium as much as people usually think. So don't get too upset if you are at fault.

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Wed 21 Jul 2021 17:31

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Do you know of any specific Highway Code rules pertaining to driving a vehicle without due care and attention the wrong way on a one way road?

Thanks

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Wed 21 Jul 2021 20:29

Pulling out of junction liability - Middleman

Do you know of any specific Highway Code rules pertaining to driving a vehicle without due care and attention the wrong way on a one way road?

Thanks

Driving without due care and attention (Careless Driving) is not mentioned in the Highway Code. Many things that a driver might do contrary to the Highway Code could amount to Careless Driving but the definition is where driving "...falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver".

Driving the wrong was in a one-way street is a specific offence and if it was accompanied by other poor driving could well lead to a Careless Driving charge.

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Wed 28 Jul 2021 19:07

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Do you know of any specific Highway Code rules pertaining to driving a vehicle without due care and attention the wrong way on a one way road?

Thanks

Driving without due care and attention (Careless Driving) is not mentioned in the Highway Code. Many things that a driver might do contrary to the Highway Code could amount to Careless Driving but the definition is where driving "...falls below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver".

Driving the wrong was in a one-way street is a specific offence and if it was accompanied by other poor driving could well lead to a Careless Driving charge.

Well I have done a bit of digging and it looks like there are two Highway Code rules that could be applicable here.

Firstly 143 which deals with one-way streets:

143.One-way streets. Traffic MUST travel in the direction indicated by signs. Buses and/or cycles may have a contraflow lane. Choose the correct lane for your exit as soon as you can. Do not change lanes suddenly. Unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise, you should use

? the left-hand lane when going left

? the right-hand lane when going right

? the most appropriate lane when going straight ahead.

Secondly 144 which deals with driving without due care and attention:

144.You MUST NOT

? drive dangerously

? drive without due care and attention

? drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.

Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991

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Thu 29 Jul 2021 12:21

Pulling out of junction liability - Bromptonaut

Well I have done a bit of digging and it looks like there are two Highway Code rules that could be applicable here.

Firstly 143 which deals with one-way streets:

143.One-way streets. Traffic MUST travel in the direction indicated by signs. Buses and/or cycles may have a contraflow lane. Choose the correct lane for your exit as soon as you can. Do not change lanes suddenly. Unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise, you should use

? the left-hand lane when going left

? the right-hand lane when going right

? the most appropriate lane when going straight ahead.

Secondly 144 which deals with driving without due care and attention:

144.You MUST NOT

? drive dangerously

? drive without due care and attention

? drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.

Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991

All of that is of course true. There is no doubt that the driver of the vehicle that hit you is susceptible to what I guess would be a Fixed Penalty Notice for passing No Entry sign and driving wrong way. Some one way streets have a 'No Motor Vehicles' sign, usually when cyclists are permitted 'wrong way'.

I'm still not sure if establishing that helps you. You entered a one way street without being certain your way ahead was clear. If visibility was obstructed then you might 'creep and peep' until you can see.

By all means contest liability with the insurance company and consider the Ombudsman* as a last resort. You might get them to go 50/50. But then you might check what you actually lose in terms of NCD/Premium Hike and consider whether it is worthwhile.

There may be examples on the Ombudsman's website that will show his attitude to liability where one party was making an illegal but observable manoeuvre.

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Wed 21 Jul 2021 20:24

Pulling out of junction liability - Modest Mouse

Inwhich case rule 146 of the highway code kicks in soat least 50/50 but with driving the wrong way would lead to the other party being predominantly at fault.

Do you know of any specific Highway Code rules pertaining to driving a vehicle without due care and attention the wrong way on a one way road?

Thanks

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Thu 22 Jul 2021 09:27

Pulling out of junction liability - Bromptonaut

Could I repeat the previous request for a Streetview or similar image of the junction in question?

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Mon 26 Jul 2021 17:30

Pulling out of junction liability - brum

Is this your insurers or the 3rd party insurers decision?

Both Insurers will ask for details from both sides, and typically look at streeview to determine who had the right of way. Could be the 3rd party has a completely different account to yours. I would have thought someone obviously breaking the law would forego the benefit of the doubt. At the very least if the 2 insurers are in dispute they'll setlle knock for knock.

The accident should have been reported straight away to the police who would establish if any law was broken, whether the drivers were under the influence etc. Dashcam footage would have helped.

Watch out for injury claims incoming!

If you have legal cover then time to use it.

Edited by brum on 26/07/2021 at 18:00

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Thu 29 Jul 2021 14:39

Pulling out of junction liability - sammy1

As I understand it going the wrong way in a one way is an endorsement with 3 points if caught, so causing an accident would seem an obvious fault to any sensible insurer

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Thu 19 Aug 2021 18:22

Pulling out of junction liability - HGV ~ P Valentine

What was the name of the road, and the town ? I only ask because you said Junction and while some are not marked most are.

If there was no road markings in front of you, I find it difficult to believe that signs would not have confirmed one of you had to give way with signage.

Also you stated that you "pulled out" which would indicate either stopping or significcantly slowing down, which follows that you knew their might have been other cars in front of you ? Had this not been the case most people would use a phrase like "I drove through a junction".

Edited by A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006 on 19/08/2021 at 18:29

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