N/A - 20 mph zone in london

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Mon 13 Jul 2020 21:51
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - S40 Man

We have a flat in Hammersmith, and live in Surrey. We visited at the weekend for the first time in a while.

The A306 Is now a 20 mph zone from the south circular all the way to the closed Hammersmith bridge. It's around 2 miles. I personally don't mind 20 zone in some built up areas or in busy side roads but this seemed excessively slow for what is in most parts a wide boulevard with big push houses.

It was really quiet as the bridge is closed which just exacerbated the situation.

Is this the shape of things to come everywhere else?

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Mon 13 Jul 2020 22:29
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Middleman

Is this the shape of things to come everywhere else?

Increasingly yes. It's what happens when you give Local Authorities the power to enhance laws made in Westminster.

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Tue 14 Jul 2020 01:10
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Terry W

Choices - none of them great - Westminster probably has better brains at their disposal, but local authorities are elected by those local to the road concerned and understand local needs.

A 2 mile stretch of road at 20mph takes 6 minutes, at 30mph 4 minutes. Not a major difference and in many cases with congestion and traffic lights etc there may be little of no difference at all!

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Tue 14 Jul 2020 12:02
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Engineer Andy

It's perfectly understandable in heavily populated residential areas, where children could easily run out into the street, or the elderly cross the street, but from behind a parked vehicle.

Much less so in areas where this isn't so much of an issue, or perhaps it could be (in normal circumstances) a variable limit, depending on the time of day/day of the week (plus school/bank holidays). Admitedly it would cost more to either have variable LED matrix signs and or something to enforce it.

Unfortunately, most speed limits are now deliberately lo because most people ignore them and drive at least 5mph, if not 10 over theed limit. Not so much of a problem on fast roads, as the likely over-reading error of speedos mean that in reality the car is going at somewhere between 2-3mph over, but on a 30mph limit road, it can make far more of a difference - for stopping in time for said pedestrian or not.

Lots of councils just bend to locals/campaigners who shout loudly because it looks better, politically, to do so. Most people who oppose the lowering of limits tend to grumble only because they already obeyed the previous ones.

Round my area, councils tend to lower roads in the countryside from 60 to 50 or 50 to 40 because complains come in from locals about people going way over those original limits. Lowering them has *some* effect, but most of those speeding excessively still disregard them as before, sometimes taking more risks, especially when the speed limit varies or speed cameras are sited.

I think that if 20mph speed limits come in, councils should have speed humps on those roads. It just make pollution worse because people slow down for them, then speed back up (often changing gear), increasing the pollution emitted in the process.

Some speed bumps also cause damage to the road and buildings through use.

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Wed 15 Jul 2020 08:02
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - barney100

30 mph is fine if every one uses 30 as their upper limit going slower when necessary. The problem is the law isn't enforced enough. Whatever limits and restrictions you apply there are those amongst us who flout them.

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Wed 15 Jul 2020 11:53
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Engineer Andy

30 mph is fine if every one uses 30 as their upper limit going slower when necessary. The problem is the law isn't enforced enough. Whatever limits and restrictions you apply there are those amongst us who flout them.

I think that in the past, more people obeyed the signed limits when they were reasonable, as well as when Plod actually had a proper traffic division and not just relied on speed cameras/camera vans outside of the motorways.

The problem is that those who still obey the law with the lower limits were never the problem drivers in the first place.

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Wed 15 Jul 2020 12:23
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Alby Back

I'd rather a 20mph limit than speed humps.

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Wed 15 Jul 2020 12:23
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - thunderbird

30 mph is fine if every one uses 30 as their upper limit going slower when necessary. The problem is the law isn't enforced enough. Whatever limits and restrictions you apply there are those amongst us who flout them.

I think that in the past, more people obeyed the signed limits when they were reasonable, as well as when Plod actually had a proper traffic division and not just relied on speed cameras/camera vans outside of the motorways.

The problem is that those who still obey the law with the lower limits were never the problem drivers in the first place.

Think I have posted about this before on here but our road is a 30 mph limit and has been since the 60's when I was a kid and used the road on my way to mates, basically its been a 30 limit for 60 years at least.

Over the past few years there have been a number of serious to very serious accidents non of which (amazingly) has resulted in a fatality. A telegraph post was snapped like a matchstick when a car rolled into it and wrote another car off as it continued on its way. A young kid was hit by a car that was well over the limit and was unconscious for several weeks, he survived with no lasting effects. A speeding car hit a parked car outside the hairdressing salon and luckily no injuries, I could go on. 2 years ago the residents association together with the county and district councillors called a public meeting to discuss the issues.

The meeting was a shambles. The county councillor was unavailable so he sent a colleague who knew nothing about the issues. District highways were there but county highways sent apologies. The Police did not even bother to send apologies. Some local residents insisted on hijacking the meeting to discuss issues that were nothing to do with the agenda but eventually it was agreed that a speed survey would be carried out and the results sent to local residents and then another meeting would be called to discuss.

So what has happened. The speed survey was carried out (right outside our house and the noise of cars going over the sensors in the road was most annoying during the night for several weeks - not an issue if it helped sort things). We never heard a thing about the results or another meeting but earlier this year (18 months after the meeting) the council put up one of those displays that shows your speed and asks you to slow down.

They also installed some tactile paving and lowered kerbs at the bottom of the road for disabled persons.

Has it worked, truth be told no. It only works for those going down the hill and people speed both ways, in actual fact now and before the survey more people speed going up the hill than down it (2 of the accidents mentioned earlier were vehicles going uphill).

The tactile paving was put in such a place as to make it potentially lethal since you cannot see in one direction for the parked cars at nearby houses (they are parked too close to the 90 degree bend but no double yellows). Its been reported in the local press but nothing has been done. We await a serious issue.

And who are the biggest culprits for speeding going up the road, a family who live just past the speed display who drive a range Rover SVR and an Audi RS3. But to be fair to them they drive at the same ridiculous speeds both ways probably thinking how brilliant they are.

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Wed 15 Jul 2020 19:30
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - barney100

Yes, policemen who stopped you used their discretion as to wether or not you got a ticket. It was human contact and a telling off was much more effective than these impersonal cameras who snap you and that's that.

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Thu 16 Jul 2020 17:02
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - Sofa Spud

20 mph zones are fine in town and city centres where there are lots of pedestrians about. I'd rather see more traffic-free pedestrianised streets but that's not always practical.

As for longer 20 mph zones, I'm not too bothered as long as there's some effort to enforce the limit. Otherwise, if you keep to 20 mph you get impatient drivers behind wondering why you're going so slow - especially as there's still an erroneous belief among some petrolheads that 20 mph has no standing in law!

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Thu 16 Jul 2020 20:58
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - galileo

20 mph zones are fine in town and city centres where there are lots of pedestrians about. I'd rather see more traffic-free pedestrianised streets but that's not always practical.

As for longer 20 mph zones, I'm not too bothered as long as there's some effort to enforce the limit. Otherwise, if you keep to 20 mph you get impatient drivers behind wondering why you're going so slow - especially as there's still an erroneous belief among some petrolheads that 20 mph has no standing in law!

I'm sure that ACPO (or whatever they are now known as) stated that they did not propose to enforce 20 mph limits unless there were particular problems in specific locations.

So yes, 20 limits are laid down by law, but enforcement is likely to be less strict than for 30/40/50 limits

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Fri 17 Jul 2020 09:47
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - thunderbird

Just sat at the laptop and heard some horsey hoof noises. Looking through the window to the road with a 30mph limit as discussed above and a hea***, then a horse drawn hea*** and then a limo went up the hill and suddenly a blue Scooby passed the lot at some highly illegal speed with the wastegate whistling.

I hope one of the vehicles has a dash cam that can be used in evidence, a pair of spooked horses could easily have added to the original number of dead.

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Sun 26 Jul 2020 18:24
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - ifekas

I can see there may be another problem with the larger roads having 20mph speed limits. Some months ago I went to visit a relative in East London where they have the 20mph speed limit. I use Waze to navigate and I was taken off the main road much earlier than expected, and was taken through lots of little roads, with hundreds of speed humps etc as presumably this was the faster way now that the speed limit on the trunk road had been reduced; this seemed to be confirmed by the number of taxis and private hire cars that were taking similar routes.

So if the outcome is to direct more drivers to navigate through the residential areas, I can't see this being a great idea.

The other thing is that although I followed the 20mph speed limit, it was clear that a large proportion of locals don't judging by the the number who had overtaken me on these roads, the manoeuvres of which at times I thought were quite dangerous. Whilst this isn't the fault of the speed limit, again the outcome isn't great and IMO it made the roads more dangerous for pedestrians crossing roads since where I live it is quite unusual for cars to overtake on a 30mph limit road.

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Sun 26 Jul 2020 20:20
N/A - 20 mph zone in london - S40 Man

The other thing is that although I followed the 20mph speed limit, it was clear that a large proportion of locals don't judging by the the number who had overtaken me on these roads,

I am not surprised by this observation. If 20 mph feels too slow, some drivers may well overtake. It was really quiet where I was in the incident that provoked this post, but if it was busier I could see someone could easily overtake someone anyway. Your right this could be more dangerous than everyone driving at 30 mph.

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