Diesels 'pros an cons'

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Tue 26 Mar 2019 19:54
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Galad

Lifted the extract below direct from the website of a major UK based franchised dealer which has multiple dealerships across a range of German marques. It's disappointing that, after all that we've been told about the advantages and risks of owning modern diesels in recent times, there's no reference to the effect of driving styles and the associated problem of particulate filters.

Pros

The first big benefit of a diesel car is that they actually use less fuel. You could save a massive 30% throughout the year, purchasing significantly lower amounts of fuel than your typical petrol car. That’s why the diesel engine is often considered to be the economic friendly choice. You’ll certainly notice that you stop less for gas if you are used to driving a petrol car. This isn’t even the only saving a diesel car will bring either. You need to think about tax benefits too. Diesel cars are marked as having lower CO2 emissions. Indeed, CO2 emissions can be reduced by 20% with a diesel car. Due to this, you should expect to pay less in car tax for the first year with your vehicle. However, after this, you will need to pay the typical £140.

Diesel cars are also a particularly great option if you’re planning on towing equipment or other vehicles with your car. For instance, if you love caravan trips, this could certainly be the right choice because a diesel car can tow the load more effectively. The same is true for trailers which is why they are often favoured in the farming industry. Another way diesel engines will save you money is through levels of maintenance. You’ll find that with a diesel engine, the engine itself will actually last longer compared to the typical petrol car. The car itself will also last longer, and when you do resell, you’ll get a better deal. Yes, diesel cars even depreciate on the market at a lower rate.

Cons

While there are some fantastic benefits that come with a diesel car, there are a few other points that you need to be aware of. You should purchase a diesel vehicle if you want to save money in the long term. Immediate costs may be a little more expensive as diesel vehicles often come with a higher price tag. There are also style issues with diesel cars as well. If you’re looking for a silent engine, this is definitely not the best possibility. Instead, you need to think about a petrol car which could provide a far gentler sound on the roads.

Should You Buy One?

If you love the sound of a roaring engine and are looking for a budget-friendly option that provides fuel saving benefits but is cheaper than a hybrid this could be a great choice. There are plenty of diesel cars to choose from as well, and they’re available from all the major producers. In the long term, you’ll save a considerable amount with a diesel.

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Tue 26 Mar 2019 20:13
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Steveieb
Not wanting to go into a city centre any time soon I will hope to continue with our diesel cars ror as long as possible.
Both the E320 and A4 1.9tdi have covered 150 k and use no oil and very little fuel.
But as the Fire Service will tell you they are less likely to catch fire in an accident.
Also the E320 has a six cylinder engine which is hard to tell what fuel it takes as it is so quiet.
With residuals dropping like a stone these are the star buys at present !
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Tue 26 Mar 2019 20:31
Diesels 'pros an cons' - gordonbennet

Sounds in serious need of updating.

Going to carry on with my old Diesel too, music to my ears banning me from cities, you'd have to pay me a lot of money to visit one of the hellish dumps again anyway, win win.

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Tue 26 Mar 2019 21:05
Diesels 'pros an cons' - badbusdriver

Firstly, i'm confused as to why the OP does not say who the 'major UK based franchised dealer is'?.

As for the content?, seems a bit over simplified and indeed out of date,

Another way diesel engines will save you money is through levels of maintenance.

Really?. Given the complexity of the modern diesel engine, this seems unlikely. Maybe back in the days of the 1.9 TDI VAG, and the (n/a)1.9 and 2.0 HDI PSA diesels.

Also, the use of the term 'gas' here,

You’ll certainly notice that you stop less for gas if you are used to driving a petrol car.

suggests the content is not really intended for the UK.

Finally, what exactly does this mean?,

There are also style issues with diesel cars as well.

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Tue 26 Mar 2019 21:08
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Bolt

Sounds in serious need of updating.

Going to carry on with my old Diesel too, music to my ears banning me from cities, you'd have to pay me a lot of money to visit one of the hellish dumps again anyway, win win.

Me too, I never liked driving in London even years ago, but it was the better option than using Public transport

On listening to radio last week they are going to ban gas fired boilers from new builds from 2025, so I wonder where the electricity is going to come from to heat these houses and if electric cars are more popular by then we are going to need nuclear power asap imo….

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 09:50
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Senexdriver
And while you’ll visit the fuel station less frequently than you did with your petrol engined car, you’ll pay more per litre than you did for your petrol. And if it’s a modern diesel you’ll have the added hassle of Adblue every so often.
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Wed 27 Mar 2019 10:57
Diesels 'pros an cons' - skidpan

What a total load of b011ocks.

Lets pick on just a couple of comments.

You could save a massive 30% throughout the year, purchasing significantly lower amounts of fuel than your typical petrol car.

A 30% saving is more than you will get compared to a modern petrol or even a hybrid. As an example we get about 45 mpg out of our Superb TSI 150 ,according to HJ owners of the 150 PS diesel get about 55 mpg but there is no indication of the owners annual mileage or use mix. Ours is mostly local with 2 holidays a year, total annual miles about 7,000. Diesels we have owned in the past have averaged about 52 mpg max, some less. So the difference between 55 and 45 mpg is only about 24% and at current prices over 7000 we would save (a massive) £92. But in our case frequent thirsty regens and long warm ups in winter would soon reduce that.

you should expect to pay less in car tax for the first year with your vehicle. However, after this, you will need to pay the typical £140.

Lets use the Superb again. Under the new regs the 1.5 TSi is 122 CO's, the 150 PS diesel is 113. That puts them both in the same band meaning the TSi is £40 less in the first year and the same in year 2 onwards. But it irrelevant since it only applies to new cars and buyers never see the difference since its included in the OTR price.

And lets not forget that the diesel Superb costs £800 more than the petrol and the days of better diesel residuals is long gone.

We have saved decent sums of money in the past buying diesels, over 5 years I calculated that the BMW saved us over £3000 all costs considered and the Kia saved us about £2000 (compared to their petrol equivalents). Over 5 years a diesel Superb would save us nothing.

I would guess that this retailer has a load of diesels that they need to offload.

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 13:45
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Engineer Andy

More diesel reliability issues, this time from BMW:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/owning-1/2019-03/bmw-egr.../

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 15:16
Diesels 'pros an cons' - barney100
Another diesel fan here. I don’t see much difference in maintenance costs over many years on diesel from the petrol days. Fuel efficiency is 25% or so better than the petrol equivalent, cities I avoid like the proverbial anyway so no loss there. Diesel engines can last a long time if properly looked after, swmbo’s Volvo has 130k or so but to be fair we had a petrol estate which reached 200k.
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Wed 27 Mar 2019 16:29
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Engineer Andy

You maybe one of the luckier ones, or at the very least you're using your diesel car as intended - for longer journeys or heauling heavy loads. The point being that many people suffer issues when driving mainly for short trips from cold, especially with diesels from the late 2000s to mid 2010s.

I should also point out as a result of such problems, second hand prices of that era of deisel cars has dropped and petrols risen, so that the higher mpg is more than offset by the worse depreciation (when buying new) and the extra costs for fixing problems when the car is used in the wrong way. Whilst low mileage (annually) users may fair better if their trips are fewer, but longer ones, again, the better mpg is more than outweighed by the much higher purchase price and the normally higher cost of diesel (and, where applicable, adblue) and maintenance.

I also believe that insurance costs for diesel cars of that era onwards are higher when comparing cars that are comparative on performance and trim, because of their complexity and thus higher repair costs in the event of an accident.

High mileage drivers (and those hauling heavy loads) will always find that diesels will be better as that's what they are designed for.

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 20:28
Diesels 'pros an cons' - John F

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan. Nitrogen oxides, dioxides and particulates are silent killers. Not only have diesel fumes caused tens of thousands of premature deaths across Europe, the World Health Organisation now declares them to be carcinogenic. Having a diesel car will soon be, and already is in some circles, generally considered to be as vulgar and antisocial as smoking.

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 20:38
Diesels 'pros an cons' - RT

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan. Nitrogen oxides, dioxides and particulates are silent killers. Not only have diesel fumes caused tens of thousands of premature deaths across Europe, the World Health Organisation now declares them to be carcinogenic. Having a diesel car will soon be, and already is in some circles, generally considered to be as vulgar and antisocial as smoking.

About the same harmfulness as a domestic gas boiler and a mere fraction of the harm caused by wood burning stoves.

Let's get rid of ALL harmful devices and not make diesels a scapegoat.

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Wed 27 Mar 2019 20:53
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Engineer Andy

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan. Nitrogen oxides, dioxides and particulates are silent killers. Not only have diesel fumes caused tens of thousands of premature deaths across Europe, the World Health Organisation now declares them to be carcinogenic. Having a diesel car will soon be, and already is in some circles, generally considered to be as vulgar and antisocial as smoking.

About the same harmfulness as a domestic gas boiler and a mere fraction of the harm caused by wood burning stoves.

Let's get rid of ALL harmful devices and not make diesels a scapegoat.

I think the problem in all this is that certain people naively or as part of an agenda just plug or demonise certain technologies, mostly without decent science behind it. A sad indictment on the modern political discourse.

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Thu 28 Mar 2019 08:24
Diesels 'pros an cons' - nellyjak

It's a dilemma a neighbour of mine is facing currently....he's mooning over a 3.1 Turbo Diesel campervan...which would be a long term commitment for him (ie up to 10 years)...It's a 2003 Isuzu imported unit apparently.

LOVES the van...BUT he's utterly conflicted and so nervous about the potential long term ownership ramifications never having had a diesel before...will restrictions/taxes/attitudes blight his joy of ownership he wonders.??

He asks for my opinion but frankly I'm reluctant to give it..'cos I don't know.!..I'm not a great diesel fan myself (only ever had one..a Shogun, many years ago)

There are hordes of diesels on the roads..private and particularly commercial...and I don't see that changing for some years....so my view would be that he shouldn't lose too much sleep over it....but I can see why he prevaricates.

Be interesting to see what his final decision will be.

I'm sure it's a dilemma many people are having right now.

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Thu 28 Mar 2019 16:31
Diesels 'pros an cons' - John F

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan......

About the same harmfulness as a domestic gas boiler and a mere fraction of the harm caused by wood burning stoves.

Wood burners are indeed health hazards, but I think a diesel engine probably emits more particulate matter than a gas boiler (which apparently are to be phased out in new homes even though filters are available), and it's possibly the particles that are the worst culprits.

In defence of diesels, this is an interesting argument by a freelance scientist with a diesel car, with quite an erudite discussion at the end......

euanmearns.com/mortality-from-diesel-car-pollution.../

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Thu 28 Mar 2019 09:13
Diesels 'pros an cons' - focussed

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan. Nitrogen oxides, dioxides and particulates are silent killers. Not only have diesel fumes caused tens of thousands of premature deaths across Europe, the World Health Organisation now declares them to be carcinogenic. Having a diesel car will soon be, and already is in some circles, generally considered to be as vulgar and antisocial as smoking.

I suggest that you review your post after reading up on the emission standard limits for Euro 6b diesel and petrol engines.

You will find that the particulate limits are exactly the same for petrol and diesel motors.

Petrol engines emit hydrocarbon pollution which diesels do not.

The Nox limits for petrols and diesels are so close it's not worth arguing about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

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Thu 28 Mar 2019 09:54
Diesels 'pros an cons' - RT

So far not a mention of the health hazards of this dreadful fuel of Satan. Nitrogen oxides, dioxides and particulates are silent killers. Not only have diesel fumes caused tens of thousands of premature deaths across Europe, the World Health Organisation now declares them to be carcinogenic. Having a diesel car will soon be, and already is in some circles, generally considered to be as vulgar and antisocial as smoking.

I suggest that you review your post after reading up on the emission standard limits for Euro 6b diesel and petrol engines.

You will find that the particulate limits are exactly the same for petrol and diesel motors.

Petrol engines emit hydrocarbon pollution which diesels do not.

The Nox limits for petrols and diesels are so close it's not worth arguing about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Some petrol cars now need Particulate Filters to comply with Euro 6 - they shouldn't be as troublesome as DPFs though, due to higher exhaust temperatures.

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Thu 28 Mar 2019 10:52
Diesels 'pros an cons' - Andrew-T

<< You will find that the particulate limits are exactly the same for petrol and diesel motors.

Petrol engines emit hydrocarbon pollution which diesels do not. The Nox limits for petrols and diesels are so close it's not worth arguing about. >>

Surely the limits are determined by health guidelines, not what the two types of engine are capable of. Diesels create more NOx because of more explosive combustion characteristics, and I can't accept that they emit no hydrocarbon pollution, certainly when cold - just like petrols. The boffins have found it easier to use software to make a petrol engine run cleanly than a diesel, and they still can't achieve complete combustion - hence the fine soot for the DPF.

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