What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Seat Ibiza or similar - Rog46

Hi ive narrowed down a car to seat ibiza 2012 1,2 tsi auto as im doing about 18k mileage a year. Yet after reading the good/bad section im put off as theres problems with DSG gearbox. has anyone got any other suggestions with good true mpg above 45 and around the 5/6k budget or even an opinion on the 1.2 tsi vw group cars Thanks

Seat Ibiza or similar - SLO76
Pre 2013 chain driven TSi motors are notorious for timing chain issues and the DSG box has a rather nasty reputation. This is probably one of the worst options you could buy at this money especially to do such a heavy mileage. You need to rethink. A later belt driven example with a manual gearbox would be ok but they are still relatively untested as yet with few big milers out there.

Firstly when buying on a tight budget like this you need to keep things as simple as possible. Avoiding complex turbocharged engines and advanced but trouble prone automated manual gearboxes such as VW’s DSG or Ford’s Powershift is wise with reliability in mind.

In order to make other suggestions. Do you really need an automatic gearbox? This seriously limits your options and increases risk and/or fuel costs significantly. I’d stick with manual if you can. Where roughly in the country do you live? and is £6k your absolute maximum budget and is this saved money or will it be financed?

Seat Ibiza or similar - skidpan
A later belt driven example with a manual gearbox would be ok but they are still relatively untested as yet with few big milers out there.

The belt drive TSI engine was first fitted to cars 5 years ago now (I had an early 2013 Leon) so hardly untested. Not seen a problem reported about one yet on any forum and problems have a habbit of propogating hugely long threads on forums.

Firstly when buying on a tight budget like this you need to keep things as simple as possible. Avoiding complex turbocharged engines

Turbcharged engines are not complexed. They are basically ordinary engines with a turbo bolted on to give more power. They have been around for years expecially on diesels.

and avoiding advanced but trouble prone automated manual gearboxes such as VW’s DSG or Ford’s Powershift is wise with reliability in mind.

VW's DSG has well documented problems but very few of these appear to be with the 1.2 variant. Its on the higher powered ones where they are at the limit of their design capacity (25nm torque) that most issues are reported espcially those were the ownered have had the engine mapped. But would I buy one, definitely not, they are pretty horrid to drive.

Seat Ibiza or similar - badbusdriver

If you must have an automatic car of about the size of an ibiza and want it to be economical then you probably should be looking at either of these,

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171123150...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171205184...1

If you can handle lower mpg, then possibly one of these (which would be more fun to drive!)

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170919943...1

Seat Ibiza or similar - SLO76
“The belt drive TSI engine was first fitted to cars 5 years ago now (I had an early 2013 Leon) so hardly untested. Not seen a problem reported about one yet on any forum and problems have a habbit of propogating hugely long threads on forums.”

I agree that to date they’re proving reliable but theyre rarely seen with heavy mileages and a typical 5yrs and 50-60k term isn’t enough to prove they’re going to be vice free in the longterm. There’s little from the specifications that scare me though so I’m pretty sure they’ll be fine. But it takes common six figure mileages and more time to be certain. I’m happy to buy, sell or recommend a belt driven example with a manual box however if it has an appropriate service history.

“Turbcharged engines are not complexed. They are basically ordinary engines with a turbo bolted on to give more power. They have been around for years expecially on diesels.”

Turbocharged engines put greater stress on components and generate more heat. Yes with appropriate servicing they can be as reliable as a normally asperated engine but it does add complication with turbo failure still commonplace more often than not thanks to poor maintenance. Sadly though this is commonplace on cheaper older cars beyond 5yrs so I tend to recommend people keep it as simple as possible to reduce their risk. This comes from 23yrs experience in the motor trade and many many cases of engine issues on turbocharged cars. Debate if you like Skidpan but my comments are based on having bought and sold thousands of cars over my life and having been witness to the issues they suffer from.



“VW's DSG has well documented problems but very few of these appear to be with the 1.2 variant. Its on the higher powered ones where they are at the limit of their design capacity (25nm torque) that most issues are reported espcially those were the ownered have had the engine mapped. But would I buy one, definitely not, they are pretty horrid to drive.”

The 1.2’s have typically covered less mileage, usually at the hands of an elderly owner who maintains it meticulously at the main dealer so yes I’d expect to see fewer issues but these are hugely complex gearboxes and enormously expensive to repair or replace so I’d avoid at all costs on any used car especially at this money.

Edited by SLO76 on 17/01/2018 at 10:19

Seat Ibiza or similar - skidpan

I agree that to date they’re proving reliable but theyre rarely seen with heavy mileages and a typical 5yrs and 50-60k term isn’t enough to prove they’re going to be vice free in the longterm.

Seriously how long must a car be on the market before you consider it to be a decent buy.

People buy their beloved Japanese cars before they have been on the market for 5 years. There is a hatred by many on this forum against any VAG product and in truth this gets a little boring. Just because some get a bad car does not make them all bad.

Avant's wife drives a TSi Audi, are you suggesting they are as daft as all the other buyers of VAG products that have only proven to be reliable for 5 years so far.

Perhaps its about time the forum name was changed to alert new members about the bias against anything VAG turbo since they will not get an unbiased reply.

Seat Ibiza or similar - oldroverboy.

I agree that to date they’re proving reliable but theyre rarely seen with heavy mileages and a typical 5yrs and 50-60k term isn’t enough to prove they’re going to be vice free in the longterm.

People buy their beloved Japanese cars before they have been on the market for 5 years. There is a hatred by many on this forum against any VAG product and in truth this gets a little boring. Just because some get a bad car does not make them all bad.

Avant's wife drives a TSi Audi,

It is not yet 3 years old and under warranty...and on a lease if i am correct..

I for one will never have a vehicle that does not come with a long manufacturers warranty, and i worked for BL, then Austin rover and Rover and Mg Rover pre-phoenix, with a bit of jaguar/landrover along the way, with a couple of brief excursions elsewhere... Over 30 years of it too! I once offered to have one of my cars delivered back to Longbridge full of cow manure, and it would have cost me a lot! (it got swapped)

There are satisfied Vag owners out there, we all know that, and we all see the UNSATISFIED people from other makes too.

S(kid)pan..I think your leg is being gently pulled.

Seat Ibiza or similar - SLO76
“Seriously how long must a car be on the market before you consider it to be a decent buy.

People buy their beloved Japanese cars before they have been on the market for 5 years. There is a hatred by many on this forum against any VAG product and in truth this gets a little boring. Just because some get a bad car does not make them all bad.

Avant's wife drives a TSi Audi, are you suggesting they are as daft as all the other buyers of VAG products that have only proven to be reliable for 5 years so far.

Perhaps its about time the forum name was changed to alert new members about the bias against anything VAG turbo since they will not get an unbiased reply.”

I base my reply’s on my own experience Skidpan which comes from a rather long time buying and selling cars. I’m hardly anti-VAG when I’ve owned plenty including our current second car which is a Polo.

As I stated before, I’m happy to recommend the belt driven TSi motors as long as it’s not running a DSG gearbox but I haven’t seen any high milers or spoken to owners of high mileage examples to ascertain how they’ll stack up over the longterm. The workshop I use haven’t either so again they class them as untested.

Now I’m delighted to see you back on here Skids but if it means you’ll be second guessing every reply I or other regular contributors post then this is going to get old real quick. I’m on here to help people looking for motors and I just don’t have the time to defend every answer I post to your good self.

People can have my two decades worth of experience for free, let’s try not to sicken people off from posting.
Seat Ibiza or similar - Rog46

so whats the difference between multimode and m-drive which is better any issues with either

Seat Ibiza or similar - cws

"There is a hatred by many on this forum against any VAG product and in truth this gets a little boring. Just because some get a bad car does not make them all bad."

Hatred? No - people come on to a non-brand-alligned forum to express themselves and it just so happens that VAG-related issues appear on a regular basis (dry-clutch DSG issues, 1.2 petrol engine chains skipping due to failing tensioners, TSi/TFSi engine issues with cracked cylinders, cam-chain issues, very excessive oil consumption and then various VAG diesel issues). Add to this the trust-issue that many consumers now have with VW following the emissions lies.

Now contrast this to Toyota, one of the 'beloved' Japanese brands - they are pretty much neck-in-neck with VAG for the amount of cars they produce yet we don't see any where near as many problems - and that's not because people won't talk about it. The Japanese car companies take a very differant approach to quality and manufacturing - I recomend reading a book 'The end of Detroit' by Maynard - it gives a great insight to why Japanese cars are so good.

Just because you owned a certain model/engine and YOU never had an issue on that NEW car, does't mean everyone is wrong. Not everyone wants or can afford a new car, so advice from someone who trades in older used car, such as SLO76, in invaluable.

Seat Ibiza or similar - Avant

Skidpan, you and I have so far been lucky enough to buy new cars and change them fairly regularly. We look after them, have them serviced on schedule and haven't had problems.

SLO is very helpfully giving most of his advice to people buying used cars on a low or lowish budget (once again huge thanks for this, SLO). Others of us try to help in this direction too, and most people merely report what they themselves experience. Very generally, one of the guiding principles that comes out is that used Japanese petrol cars have probably withstood any neglect or abuse by their previous owners rather better than most Europeans.

Any used car purchase has to have an element of risk: for example, you just don't know whether even an immaculate car with moderate mileage has or hasn't been driven by previous owners with any 'car sympathy'. But people's experience shows that older diesel engines tend to need expensive repairs, and the judges are still out on whether VAG's dry-clutch DSG has been improved so as to become less jerky and more reliable.

You can never eliminate risk. But you can reduce it by taking the impartial advice that's on offer from people like SLO who have the relevant experience. I know - I've been lucky in life. I'm soon going back to VAG from Volvo - and a 2.0 TFSI with DSG at that. But when I was in the market for a used fun car, it wasn't going to be an Audi with DSG.

Seat Ibiza or similar - KB.

"I'm soon going back to VAG from Volvo - and a 2.0 TFSI with DSG at that. But when I was in the market for a used fun car, it wasn't going to be an Audi with DSG."

I suppose, Avant, that you do realise you'll be pelted with (virtual) rotten cabbages and told you'll need your marbles checked? Not only are Audi drivers the spawn of the devil and the new replacement for BMW drivers...no, not only that, it's a DSG! Yikes you've a strong constitution.

Forgive me a moment while I just switch to 'broken record mode'. Right I'm there - see below :-

I reckon my DSG is the best transmission in the thirty something cars I've owned. (OK, I'll admit that includes a brace of 100E three speeders and a Morris Minor). As for jerkiness, I regard the changes to be as near to imperceptible as makes no difference. Of course I can see the flaws.... the safety disconnect device that prevents you riding the clutch(es) if you're creeping really slowly up hill is sometimes a nuisance and very occasionally, if you're a bit careless, it'll spin the front wheels on, say, uphill loose gravel surfaces like a wet slippery uphill private driveway in a remote a country lane (not that I have a remote private driveway myself). Six or seven years on, my reliability is OK as we speak.

I hope you enjoy yours in the same way I do mine.

Seat Ibiza or similar - SLO76
I actually like the way DSG equipped cars drive. Yes it’s not perfect and that delay off the mark when you need a full throttle takeoff is irritating but gearchanges are smooth and rapid plus It’s economical, often better than the manual equivalent so over it’s lifetime it’ll save money on juice compared to a conventional autobox but failure rates beyond 5yrs are far far too high so as a used buy I wouldn’t advise it. I’d love to see it perfected though as they’re good as far as driving is concerned. If leasing, buying on PCP or you just liked to change before the warranty was up there’s no reason to buy one.
Seat Ibiza or similar - skidpan

From the post above

I actually like the way DSG equipped cars drive

I have driven 3. DSG's. One was a diesel Golf with the 6 speed, one a petrol Octavia with the 7 speed and the last a deisel Octavia with the 6 speed. I like auto's but they have to be a big engined car. Hate CVT's with a passion, all revs and no go when you need it most. Thought a DSG might be OK (did not intend buying one first was a pool car at work, the others were the only demonstrators available) but they were all slow off the mark unless you really gave them some gas (nearly running into the back of another car) and difficult to manouvre at slow speeds. I particularly disliked the 7 speed, too many gears, 6 is fine in the manual so why add another. Better than a CVT I suppose but if you have 2 legs stick to a manual. Suppose the only Auto I have liked in a small car was a 3 speed Hondamatic dad had. That went really well for a 1300 with only about 70 bhp.

Edited by Avant on 18/01/2018 at 15:57

Seat Ibiza or similar - skidpan

So Avant. You remove my comment but leave Oldf***s on.

Do you work for English Cricket?

Seat Ibiza or similar - Senexdriver
My wife had a new Ibiza 1.2 tfsi in early 2012. It drove really well and was economical and all went well until shortly before the warranty expired when the turbo failed. I believe the failure was due to mainly short journeys - the turbo never got adequately lubricated. The car had only covered 9000 miles.

We both have DSG Audi’s now. The gearbox is jerky, but you learn to live with it, as you do with the delay when you need to pull away quickly. I thought long and hard about going auto on grounds of reliability, but I figured that while it’s under warranty it’s not my problem and we’ll take a view when the warranty expires. I definitely wouldn’t have DSG in a used car 5 years old.