Looking for some advice.
Bought ex mobility car from a main delear last week. Have just noticed that oil is leaking from the Inlet Manifold. Local mechanic has had a look over car and advised that these engines clog up due to this oil leaking and that turbos are prone to going bang. He's checked the turbo and oil is present in turbo. In addition the hose from turbo to the air filter is covered in oil. On closer inspection the tray at the bottom of the engine bay is covered in stained oil. Think I might have bought a lemon. Looking for advice as in previous threads re new Consumer Law 2015 its says you can hand back within 30 days. Mechanic says that it would require new turbo as it might last 5000 or 25000 miles.
Advice etc would be gratefully appreciated.
Edited by pogo on 17/06/2017 at 12:13
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If it was an approved used Ford then you have a 30 day no quibble exchange option so I'd call the dealer and explain your fears and explain to them you'd like to swap the car for another of the same value. These engines are notorious for problems and you're best getting out of it quickly. A call to trading standards to check your legal standing should they refuse would be wise plus before calling the dealer look up their stock to find something you'd like and check the prices as they will often inflate a car's price to compensate themselves in a situation like this.
Edited by SLO76 on 17/06/2017 at 14:04
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Thanks for reply.
Bought from Evans Halshaw. I believe under new Consumer Law I can reject within 30 days due to this fault. Oil has got into turbo so I think I will be handing keys back tomorrow. I need a reliable car. Has anyone been in this position before as I expect Dealership will try every trick in the book for me to keep car.
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Shouldn't be much trouble, Ford approved cars as I say come with a 30 day exchange option. secure.ford.co.uk/Approved-used-cars
They will try to convince you that there's no problem with it or these engines in general but I can assure you these are well known for failing. Don't exchange it for anything with the 1.0 Ecoboost either as these also have a rather nasty reputation too.
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What you HAVE to do.
Inform them of the fault, and that therefore you wish to reject the car under CRA. Do this on the phone, and follow it up THE SAME DAY by email.
You then MUST stop using the car - basically, you must actually stop using it, as you have rejected it. So deliver it, along with all the paperwork and keys, to the garage where you bought it from. At the same time, deliver a copy of your rejection letter to them as well.
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This 1.6 tdci Psa engine was a problem 10+ years ago when they were first introduced.Not heard of any issues on a car this new,and there are millions of them out there fitted to various makes and models.My worry would be the fact that it is an ex mobility car. I guess there are loads out there that have been carefully looked after and maintained according to the service schedule.However,there are also numerous vehicles that have been wrecked and neglected. The car you bought may fall into the latter category.
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There's plenty of later 8v failures. There's a threat running currently on here on a DS3 with a ruined engine. My neighbour had a 2012 Berlingo 1.6 HDi 8v that died at 80,000 miles and a co worker had his Peugeot Partner blow its turbo at less than 60k. A quick google search will find plenty of tales of woe. As a trader I won't touch them and the majority of others I know are highly wary of them, buying only the best cars with dealer history, the rest are left spinning their wheels at auction. It's a flawed design, even the later improved 8v, one I see PSA has finally replaced with a new 1.5 which is likely the same redesign Ford have been using for a couple of years now. Hopefully this will finally be right.
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Thanks for all the help. I'll be writing a letter etc as it's not fit for purpose. It's not a Ford approved car but from Evans Halshaw. Don't think that will make any difference as will reject due to 30 days rule under Consumer Law Act. Thanks.
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Wee update. Garage refused to accept my rejection letter as they say I had car booked in for repair. I informed the Manager that I had lost confidence that the repair would resolve issue. To cut long story short I left them with letter of rejection and the keys to the car.
However at 1530 today got a call from the Serivice Dept. We have ordered the parts to fix your car. I informed the gent car was rejected this morning due to not being a Fit for purpose.
Any advice etc would be appreciated. On the next step forward
Thanks in advance.
Edited by pogo on 19/06/2017 at 20:38
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You have to speak to someone senior at the dealership and make it very clear that you are enforcing your CRA right to reject the car.
When I say 'someone senior', I mean the person who actually makes the decisions. So when you start the conversation, that's your first question : Do you have the authority to accept my rejection ?. If the answer is No, then you need to go further up the food chain.
The old, rather non-PC saying is that you want to speak to the organ grinder, not the monkey.
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Thanks for reply.
So I presume it will be the Dealer Principle that I need to speak to.
What's the procedure then re the repair they have carried out. I don't have faith that the engine has not been damaged due to loss of oil from the Inlet and also the oil in the turbo. Advice re way forward would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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Another update
Rejected car on Monday but the Manager said no as I booked car in for repaiir. He informed me that I must allow them to fix faults. Informed the Manager that AA were called out yesterday due to lagging when you applied accelerator pedal and had lost all faith in the car. At 1530 Monday Service phone to tell me parts will arrive tomorrow. I inform him car was rejected this morning as per Consumer Rights Act i.e. Within first 30 days. Car was only bought 6/6/17.
I have heard nothing from garage so far but I think they are playing hard ball and will attempt to fix car and all the others faultand try and to get me to accept car back. Looking for guidance re this. I informed Manager on Monday that I did not want car fixed and I had cancelled appointment with their Service Dept when I went into garage. I told the guy Graham I was not happy for repair as AA out yesterday and I had lost all faith in the motor so cancel the appointment.
Where do I now stand legally. Any advice etc would be gratefully appreciated. I need a reliable car as I do 40000 miles approx per year.
Thanks in advance.
Raymond
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Here's where you stand
Any car bought after October 2015, if it goes wrong within the first 30 days of ownership, you can simply reject it out of hand for a full refund. If a fault develops after those 30 days but within the first six months, the dealer gets one chance to fix it. If they fail to do this, you’re entitled to a full refund, or a partial refund after the use you’ve had of the car has been taken into account.
Do t let them attempt a repair. Stand firm on this and I'd go to the expense of sending a lawyers letter to back up your rejection. They will act if they know you mean to play hard ball plus it gives you proof you did reject it in time.
As you already know from experience and from reading this forum it's unwise to buy anything with this engine especially with such intense usage in mind.
Good luck.
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Thanks for reply..
Garage are in the process of fixing the faults I listed in my rejection letter. They phoned me on Monday at 1530 to inform me parts were arriving the next day. I asked the guy Neil what parts as I had rejected car at 0845 that morning and I had cancelled the appointment with a guy called Graham. He then couldn't find work order which detailed works currently been undertaken. Very convenient I may add. So I know that they are in the process of doing works to the car. But I don't want it back as lost faith. In addition I am sure that will get a resident expert to say car is in first class condition- better than a new car. I can hear the you know want coming out their mouth. If they could they would sell sand to the Arabs.
I'm a AA Gold Member and I am sure that they can help out as well. I have proof that I rejected the car as I handed over a rejection letter in the garage and followed this up by an email with the letter to the Salesman. Manager informed me that as I had booked car in then I must allow them to repair. My understanding is this is not correct. I informed him that appointment was cancelled via Graham and under no circumstances did I want car back as I had lost faith in the car. I've heard nothing from the garage since. I am sure that they will be doing stuff behind the scenes to try and get me to keep car. But all I want is my money back. I paid via Credit and Debit Cards -Santander and Halifax. They have started a Visa Dispute claim.
Any advice or further information you can help with would be gratefully appreciated. My understanding is that I have to say no even if they say car is fixed.
Thanks
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You have rejected the car within the 30 day window. It's irrelevant that they want to fix it and you have not agreed to allow this anyway. Stick to your guns and make it clear you'll go all the way and remind them you paid by credit card. In the eyes of the law the credit card firms are equally liable for any problems you have and a section 75 reclaim can be made for faulty or undelivered goods. Trading standards are worth contacting if the firm refuse to act. They should be only too happy to remind them of their legal obligations, if they're lazy about it then go over their head. It's their job.
Don't allow the garage to talk you round, they'll tell you there's nothing to worry about and the thousands of cases of failure in these engines is a hoax etc etc. It's not, this is a fragile and flawed design and not something that'll stand up to 40k annual mileage.
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Slo76
Thanks for reply. I presume if they will not accept rejection I will have to start my claim against them. Has anyone been in this position before and what are the timescales from start to finish roughly. I need a car and they know this fact. I have already contacted Santander (123 account but it's a Visa Credit Card re reclaiming cash) and the Halifax as I paid £100 via my credit card. I'll contact Trading Standards today re this as well and will contact Evans Halshaw head office as well. That's where I got car from. So finally what the best/fastest way forward to resolve this - Section 75 Arbitration or Court. Car cost just over £11000.
Thanks again..
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The quickest route would be for the dealer to accept that you're prepared to fight all the way and rather than face the cost of litigation and loss of face they'll refund right away. This is the best road to go down. Sit down with someone with the authority to authorise a refund and make this crystal clear to them. Explain the law to them to make it clear you know where you stand and that they will be held liable for court costs if they choose unwisely to fight.
Be wary of any swap deal as they may price in their costs by offering an overpriced replacement. If however they allow you to swap for any other car to the same value within stock then this would be an acceptable outcome for both parties.
I recently said something similar to my future brother in law after the BMW 120d I told him not to buy went haywire. His firm stance won out without any fight and the firm allowed him to swap into something else. He took an nice Astra 1.7 (Isuzu) diesel GTC which hasn't coughed once since.
Firm but pleasant wins the day.
Edited by SLO76 on 22/06/2017 at 09:41
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Cheers mate.
I'll contact Trading Standards this morning and advise that Evans are playing hard ball. I have already said to the Manager I spoke with the laws allows me to return within 30 days and I don't have to accept repair. He seems to think otherwise. No we are allowed to fix. The car was rejected Monday and despite assurances that they would call on Monday with update nothing has happened. Still nothing by last night as well. If they don't accept what's my next stance - I have been into Santander Monday and they have started Visa dispute. Just waiting on paperwork etc from them. Halifax different have to email them but only paid £100 so not as urgent as Santander cash over £11000. If I need to go to court what's the timescale etc.
It's how companies deal with problems that makes them stand out. Here's hoping Evans Halshaw will see sense and offer money back as per my rights under Consumer Rights Act.
Thanks again
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Another Update
Garage just off the phone. Director Principle (DP) offered full refund today. Faith restored - Well done Evans Halshaw. - Vauxhall Edinburgh. Lots of bad press but my experience was slow to reply but once Head Office phoned Gary Smith (DP) phoned within twenty minutes and resolved issues. Another plus was the salesman Robert Bonnar - top drawer. So thanks to all for advice etc.
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