How old is the car?Does the dealer have any test plan with any results?
Hi, Car is first registered Nov 2010. The dealer has some result, but I have not seen any report yet. I could ask for them, but as its the Bank Holiday, I probably won't be able to get them until next week.
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Before lashing out that kind of money, you should insist on a list of what testing they have carried out so far with all results. Post a picture of it here so we can see if they have missed something.
Presumably they've tried changing the crank position sensor (or tested the old one). I've seen a faulty CPS flumox many a dealer technician (not least of because a failed cps doesn't necessarily result in a DTC [diagnostic trouble code] - indeed had the 'check engine light' come on when it first failed, you don't mention). Also can you remember if the tacho was showing crank speed when cranking? (about 200rpm). If not, highly likley the cps.
4 weeks eh? They could have built you a new car from parts by now! I'd be inclined to take it to a local independant.
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
I will get the codes next week and post them. I don't think this is going to be a quick fix with Nissan.
I didn't notice any "check engine light ", the only light was the red "Key" light that was on for any time. It appeared to go through the normal start up of lights on the dashboard, but just not turn the enjine over. The dash lights looked exactly like they do when you just push the start button with the brake peddle pressed, and things like the radio then work.
The engine didn't turn over at all when we had to call the recovery garage, so I don't have any cranking speed.
The Nissan dealer has told me they have managed to get the starter motor to work as they thought it could have been the starter relay. I think they must have just put a power source direct onto the starter relay to get it to turn over. They said they just wanted to make sure the starter motor did work.
I thought about a local independant, but I was under the impression they wouldn't be able to interogate all the electronic control modules. This was sort of confirmed by the Nissan dealer as they said they don't have access to all the onboard electronic data, which is why they sent the data to Nissan Technical support for an in depth analysis, or are they just spinning me a load of !!!!!! ????
Thanks
Howard
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Electronics in modern cars are made up of a network of computers/processors.Each one talks to each other to put the car into a "good to go"situation.Due to the complexity of the network,it needs only one ecu to go faulty or a wiring fault to be present,and you got a problem.It is not the cps,and even if it was,many cars would start with a reference from the camshaft sensor as an emergency value.We have moved on from the Rovers of the 80s and 90s,
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Thanks for the input, all advice welcome.
I am beginning to understand how complex the electrics are on newer cars, but I would have thought the company who made the car would have the technology/software to interogate each of the computers/processors in the network of modules to check that they are working correctly.
They appear to be unable to identify the faulty one, and after a "best guess" want to just keep fitting new control modules until they find the faulty one. Not the sort of fault diagnosis I would expect from a main dealer.
Thanks for the advice.
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Hi Had the same prob, the dammed thing just started on and off. let me down on and off. Been in Nissan twice they could not diagnose a fault. Eventually the RAC diagnosed break pedal switch not working, changed it and havent had an issue then.
mine is a 2011 petrol and done 29K up until today. Now the engine chain rattles, which seem to be extremely common and needs replacing.
had a Qashqai before from new, riddled with issues, the Juke is a let down too, never buy Nissan again
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Dear All,
Thanks for the feed back.
Quick update....the car is still in the garage.
BCM has been changed, fault still persists. The engine turns over, but won't start.
They now think its the ECM. Going to try and get my ECM repaired. New one is £2100 !
The current fault codes are B209F and B26FA.
If anyone has any ideas please ?
Thanks.
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If the engine fails to crank when the start button is pressed then all the conditions required for engine starting such as the clutch pedal depressed, gear lever in neutral or park, immobilser transponder signal received, sufficient battery voltage etc will not have been met - or at least the ECM will think they haven't. Simply direct feeding the starter motor isn't going to start the engine in this condition. If the ECM says it isn't starting then it isn't starting, end of. A Nissan dealer should have diagnostic equipment which should enable the technician to see what the ECM sees. Fault codes, or their absence alone don't prove much and are not an accurate basis for diagnosis. It sounds like your dealer doesn't really know what they're doing, and they're relying on guesswork which is very unprofessional.
I'd be very surprised if either the body or engine controller is the fault. Much more likely is something minor which the dealer just hasn't found. Diagnostic equipment should be able to tell the technician what's happening and what isn't, and from there he should get an idea of where to look.
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Thanks for the info.
I am beginning to think you are right. The ECM is currently at an ECU repairer and the have not yet been able to find any hardware fault, but are checking the software.
The Nissan dealer has said they have sent the diagnostic information to Nissan technical, and it is they who have suggested the BCM or ECU are the probable cause.
Is this just going to end up being a broken wire somewhere?
Thanks
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Just to be clear, has anyone specifically checked the brake pedal switch as mentioned above by Pumpkin12?
Possibly this is what you meant when you mentioned that you were aware of the 'brake unit fault' in your initial post.
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Hi Hoplane,
Yep, I have asked the garage about the brake pedal and also the battery earthing cable , which is apparently another common failing. The garage have said they have checked both.
Another update , the ECU has been checked by an ECU repair company I sent it to. They found no hardware or software fault on the unit. It arrives back today, so its another conversation with the garage......joy!
Thanks for the help, all welcome.
Howard
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Dear All,
Car is finally working. I sent the ECU to a "very speedy" online ECU repair company as found in Google. They found nothing wrong with the hardware or software.
I then returned the ECU to the dealership with lots of questions of exactly what they had tested. They could not give me the answers until the technician who carried out the tests returned from holiday.
Upon their return they fitted the ECU and the car simply started !!!!! They have no idea why this should happen. They have fitted a new battery because they said it was not holding its charge, but have been using one of their test batteries to perform all the checks. The BCM was also not the fault, but I have had to pay for that, with a small discount from Nissan.
The only theory as to why it has started is that the ECU needed a full power discharge to remove all residual charge. This happened during the long time it was off the car getting tested, and when it was fitted back on the car it did a system reboot and the corrupted software repaired itself, and now the car was not getting the false signals, so it started.
Time will tell, but its starting ok for now !
Thanks to everyone for all the help.
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Thanks for the update.
Really glad to hear you've got a resolution.
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Hi, it looks like we are experiencing the exact same problem. Car is turning over but will not start, been in the garage for 4 weeks now. Can you advise how to rest the unit to get the car to start and is yours still working.
Thanks in advance
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I too am having this problem, sometimes goes for days working then days playing up, I'm worried about getting stranded so not really using it. Also worrying about getting the right diagnosis and not spending money on guesses. It seems a lot of people have had this issue.
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I'm now experiencing the same problem; turning the ignition and no crank. AA weren't sure but suspected immobiliser issue. Had it taken to an independent garage (owned by my brother) who put it through all the expensive diagnostic equipment, but then got to the point where he needed codes which are withheld by Nissan (how convenient of them). He suspected that there is an issue between the immobiliser and the Body Control Module, but couldn't confirm this due to the absence of codes.
I've only had the car 4 and half months, but it only came with a 3 month warranty. Despite this, the dealer I bought the car from agreed to pay for the diagnostic at a Nissan dealership which has been quoted to be around £100.
End of day 1, we were told that it had had to be referred to Nissan HQ technicians for advice.
End of day 2 (after numerous unreturned phonecalls asking for an update), we were told that Nissan HQ had suggested looking at the ignition and immobiliser (hadn't they actually done this as part of the diagnostics???)
End of day 3, they are now saying that they don't know what is wrong with it, and that they have been waiting for a 'donor vehicle' to try a 'ring decoder' from that on our car to see if it works. However, they haven't managed to find one so are trying to charge us £135 plus vat for a new part, that they admit might not fix the fault. They're also mentioning the Body Control Module and Engine Control Unit which could result in a bill anywhere between £400 and £2500, but they're still not sure. When questioned on why we should pay so much money for 'guesswork', we were told that if they don't do this, they will have to spend a large number of hours checking additional wiring to diagnose the fault which will cost us more than the initial part itself.
My question is, are they allowed to do that? My view is that if they ar receiving the quoted £100 for the diagnostic, surely that means they are receiving money to diagnose the fault, and then we pay for the repair. My theory sounds straightforward I know, but how can they receive money to diagnose something, not diagnose it and then ask for more money to try and diagnose it, or for parts that may or may not work???
As with previous posters, it's clear that the Nissan dealership are incompetent and are charging us money for putting their finger in the air and sucking their teeth, when they actually manufacture the cars. I'm wanting to demand that if they can't diagnose the fault, they should release my car to an independent who knows what they're doing, together with all the codes that they are withholding so that someone can adequately find out what's wrong with the car, resulting in me only paying what's needed to actually diagnose and fix it.
Grateful for any views on my thoughts above.
(To add insult to injury, the dealership can't offer a courtesy car as they're all out. They gave us a number to ring Nissan directly who may be able to help. When we phoned the number given, a woman answered it saying 'Hello, you're through to OFSTED, how can I help?'!!!! At least it's not just the mechanics and technicians that seem incompetent).
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Hi,
New to this and also been experiencing all the same problems as you all have or are.
I bought my Nissan Juke 13 in November 2017 and have had a total of 7 breakdowns all being to do with not being able to start the car and the warning light which is a red car with key.
It plays up before fully breaking down usually. Bought my car from a dealership who isn’t Nissan but only had a 3 month warranty on. They keep sending it to Nissan, car appears fixed then breaks down weeks later again.
1st breakdown was Jan 18,2nd - February 18, 3rd- March 18, 4th - July 18, 5th - August 18, 6th - August 18 again and 7th is again October 18.
It’s a nightmare and so much stress.
What is the outcome of everyone’s eventually? What can I say to the garage this time?
Thank you
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