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Looking to buy a car that's under 2k that hopefully can fit the following criteria:
- under 10-12 years old
- cheap to run - owned a VW Passat until now and 90% of the work on it I've done myself with parts being cheap and internet full of guides
- saloon/hatchback(5 doors)- definetly don't want it to be bigger size than passat
- 1.6 - 1.8 engine - owned only 1.9tdi engines until know and while fun I think I should go for a 1.6 to 1.8 to lower the fuel cost while not making the car feel too sluggish
- under 100k mileage
- reliable, maybe even fun to drive
Am I asking for too much under 2k?
I was looking at the Ford Focus, golfs and some Mazda's but I have no idea how reliable or good to run are they as a make/model.
Any makes/models I should avoid in this price range?
Edited by Snortan on 01/12/2016 at 09:48
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Avoid the Golf - HJ reckons that VWs of the last decade are some of the worst cars around. Lots of expensive problems.
For under £2k, avoid diesel. Modern diesels are horribly expensive to fix when (note when, not if) something goes wrong, and a lot of the ones for sale are being gotten rid of because they need work/money.
I'd seriously suggest the backroomers 'normal' recommendation. A petrol toyota Yaris with a manual gearbox. Relatively economical, quite chuckable, and as reliable as a rock.
If that's a bit small then possibly a Toyota Auris or Honda Civic. Again, in petrol, manual box. A bit less economical, but minimal chance of big bills for repairs.
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Any other backroomers 'normal' recommendation I should check out? Is there a list somewhere?
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I'm a home trader with a focus on sub £3,000 cars. At this price point eliminate diesels from your shopping list, they're more trouble than they're worth and will ultimately cost you more in repairs and maintenance than you'd save in fuel. I don't generally touch them.
With that out of the way there are plenty of cheap small family hatches to choose from but rather than focusing particularly on one type I'd buy based on condition, history and mileage first. I certainly wouldn't buy a tatty Golf with no history over a mint Astra for example.
Asuming similar condition, history and mileage my list would include a Mk II Ford Focus with the Yamaha designed 1.6 petrol, Vauxhall Astra 1.6 (avoid the 1.8 VVT), Honda Civic 1.6 (watch for failed steering racks), Mazda 3 1.6 (rust), VW Golf Mk IV (t/belt every 4yrs) and Toyota Corolla.
Don't buy anything that hasn't got evidence of annual oil and filter changes and check the timing belt interval via www.mytimingbelt.com/ as it is unlikely anyone would change it before selling, more often than not its long overdue and look for something that's been owned for more than two years, if it's had very short term ownership or a high number of owners it's likely to have problems.
There's plenty to choose from but remember the golden words... keep it simple. Forget image, performance or gadgets and buy the most straightforward mass produced cars with plenty of aftermarket parts availability, not a Subaru for example.
Good luck!
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I was thinking the same thing in regards to diesels so petrol definetly.
Any makes/models I should avoid completely due to them being unreliable or expensive to fix?
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Nothing you buy will probably be quite as economical in the real world even if they say they are on paper as the old VAG 1.9 diesel.
As others have suggested - buy on condition and whether it has the look and feel of a well looked after car (history etc.) rather than precise make or model.
Also be realistic, any car at this price range will at some point need money spending on it and will need a few niggles looked at so don't expect it to be free to run.
Edited by pd on 01/12/2016 at 12:56
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Nothing you buy will probably be quite as economical in the real world even if they say they are on paper as the old VAG 1.9 diesel.
Not even if they are 1.6?
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Nothing you buy will probably be quite as economical in the real world even if they say they are on paper as the old VAG 1.9 diesel.
Not even if they are 1.6?
No, a 1.6 petrol of the age you are considering will maybe do 25 MPG around town and high 30's on a run.
Forget engine size (to an extent) and find a car which has good history, paperwork and looks and feels as if it has been well cared for.
I'll let SLO comment on the particular cars you have highlighted.
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Fiat and Renault in general aren't worth the hassle but almost every motor has a weakness of some sort even Honda and Toyota. Generally Japanese is best but I'm a fan of the Ford Focus which is the nicest car in the class to drive and generally pretty robust if serviced correctly and the diesels avoided, especially the notorious 1.6 PSA unit. The Mazda 3 shares the same chassis and is also a great drive but they do rot quite badly.
If you see anything you like then post a link to the advert and we'll have a look.
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How about an Audi A4 TDI with the AWX engine. An unbeatable combination of economy and power especially the pull on turbo.
May I ask what your old one failed on and other problems over the years?
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How about an Audi A4 TDI with the AWX engine. An unbeatable combination of economy and power especially the pull on turbo.
May I ask what your old one failed on and other problems over the years?
That would be a 1.9 though, wouldn't it? Looking at 1.6's to lower the fuel cost.
My old one failed yearly at mot for front control arms, luckly they are cheap and easy to replace so I did it myself, other than that I had no real issues with it for the 6 years I had it.
Edited by Snortan on 01/12/2016 at 14:58
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That would be a 1.9 though, wouldn't it? Looking at 1.6's to lower the fuel cost.
Ignore the size of the 1.9pd engine in real life they are very economical. The VAG replacement 1.6CR diesel engine wasn't that much more economical in real life (see HJ's realmpg)
Moving from a 1.9pd to a 1.6 petrol you are going to increase your fuel costs
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Fiat and Renault in general aren't worth the hassle but almost every motor has a weakness of some sort even Honda and Toyota. Generally Japanese is best but I'm a fan of the Ford Focus which is the nicest car in the class to drive and generally pretty robust if serviced correctly and the diesels avoided, especially the notorious 1.6 PSA unit. The Mazda 3 shares the same chassis and is also a great drive but they do rot quite badly.
If you see anything you like then post a link to the advert and we'll have a look.
How do these look ?
Edited by Snortan on 01/12/2016 at 14:57
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Pick the best Japanese petrol car you can find that is a suitable size- no point in a Yaris if you are a big person, for example the Mazda 3 looks good.
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All good examples of what I'm talking about on screen at least. The low mileage Astra mentions nothing about service history however and you're better with a motor with 70k and a full history than one with half that that's rarely seen a workshop.
From the descriptions I'd favour the burgundy Focus that's only had two owners, has full history and a recent t/belt but the other one owner car looks good too so it would be worth seeing both in the metal.
The Mazda's are probably mechanically more robust (I've got one with 117k on it as a runabout) but they rust far earlier than either the Focus or Astra but they're very nice things to drive with a lovely gearchange. I prefer mine to drive down a B road than either the 2014 Honda CRV and 2012 VW Polo TDI we also have.
As for you mentioning reducing your costs by cutting engine size, well this is irrelevant when it comes to fuel economy. These 1.6 petrol hatches will average high 30's to the gallon whereas a Golf with your old 1.9 TDi will do mid 50's. They are However far less likely to go wrong than diesel equivalents of the same cars.
You could get a Golf or a Skoda Octavia with the hard wearing old 1.9 TDI but it'll be an older car with much higher mileage but these can do 500k if looked after properly but there's still more to go wrong than a petrol equivalent. Avoid any with a DPF fitted!
Edited by SLO76 on 01/12/2016 at 16:38
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Probably means I've been lucky with rust on my 2006 (Oct 2005 build) Mazda 3 1.6 petrol saloon - barely anything to speak of that I can see, including around the wheel arches where I've seen it on sister cars. No idea about underbody and structural, though its never been brought up as an issue (thus far) at the annual services, which has always been at a reputable main dealer. Next service due at the end of Dec.
Mechanically, electrically, fit/finish and handling, brilliant (only a few very minor problems, current 'heavier' steering 'better' [it was never terrible] with the use of the US TransTune stuff). Always could do with a bit more power and style, but fine nonetheless. My fingers are crossed to hope that it doesn't corrode to death (good at nearly 11yo) before I can find a suitable replacement (not necessary the same size) - holding off at present for many reasons.
Petrol + Japanese normally is a good recipe for reliable older cars. As everyone says, look for signs of rust/corrosion problems as well as the usual giveaways for poor maintenance and accident damage (HJ guides).
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All good examples of what I'm talking about on screen at least. The low mileage Astra mentions nothing about service history however and you're better with a motor with 70k and a full history than one with half that that's rarely seen a workshop. From the descriptions I'd favour the burgundy Focus that's only had two owners, has full history and a recent t/belt but the other one owner car looks good too so it would be worth seeing both in the metal. The Mazda's are probably mechanically more robust (I've got one with 117k on it as a runabout) but they rust far earlier than either the Focus or Astra but they're very nice things to drive with a lovely gearchange. I prefer mine to drive down a B road than either the 2014 Honda CRV and 2012 VW Polo TDI we also have. As for you mentioning reducing your costs by cutting engine size, well this is irrelevant when it comes to fuel economy. These 1.6 petrol hatches will average high 30's to the gallon whereas a Golf with your old 1.9 TDi will do mid 50's. They are However far less likely to go wrong than diesel equivalents of the same cars. You could get a Golf or a Skoda Octavia with the hard wearing old 1.9 TDI but it'll be an older car with much higher mileage but these can do 500k if looked after properly but there's still more to go wrong than a petrol equivalent. Avoid any with a DPF fitted!
I was under the impression that engine size is tied directly to fuel consumption, as you can tell my car knowledge is limited even though I like working on them.
Lots of useful info thanks!
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Technically, it is related to engine size. But a lot more comes into it too.
It's a combination of engine size, fuel type, journey length (and road type, constant speeds on motorways are nice), the type of gearbox fitted (some automatics really hammer fuel economy), and that's before you even get to the tyres (wide 'sporty' tyres or grippy tyres hurt economy), and (most importantly) the driver and their driving style.
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Technically, it is related to engine size. But a lot more comes into it too.
It's a combination of engine size, fuel type, journey length (and road type, constant speeds on motorways are nice), the type of gearbox fitted (some automatics really hammer fuel economy), and that's before you even get to the tyres (wide 'sporty' tyres or grippy tyres hurt economy), and (most importantly) the driver and their driving style.
I see, not so clear cut as I was thinking.
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"I was under the impression that engine size is tied directly to fuel consumption, as you can tell my car knowledge is limited even though I like working on them."
There are a lot of factors involved. Our 1.6 diesel Honda CRV is averaging more to the gallon than our 1.2 diesel VW Polo for example. The CRV is a much larger, heavier and more powerful vehicle but it's taller geared and has a more modern engine.
Often too small an engine for the car can hurt economy too. The Focus 1.4 for example is worse day to day than the 1.6 which has to work less to do the same job. But you can't beat diesel for fuel consumption. Sadly the added complexity brings added costs with it that outweigh it as they age.
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"I was under the impression that engine size is tied directly to fuel consumption, as you can tell my car knowledge is limited even though I like working on them." There are a lot of factors involved. Our 1.6 diesel Honda CRV is averaging more to the gallon than our 1.2 diesel VW Polo for example. The CRV is a much larger, heavier and more powerful vehicle but it's taller geared and has a more modern engine. Often too small an engine for the car can hurt economy too. The Focus 1.4 for example is worse day to day than the 1.6 which has to work less to do the same job. But you can't beat diesel for fuel consumption. Sadly the added complexity brings added costs with it that outweigh it as they age.
Does this look too good to be true? www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20161130021...9
It's close to me so might go see it in weekend
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If it has a good service history and is in good condition then it sounds like a great buy. The Mot history checks out www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ and that mileage means it's barely run in.
But remember, despite that low mileage the timing belt was due at 8 years or 100k whichever comes first so if there's no receipt to prove it's been done then negotiate at least £300 off to cover it and get it done along with the water pump as soon as you get it. Shouldn't cost more than this but get a quote from your garage before offering so you know where you stand.
As a private sale you have no comeback what so ever but I like buying this way as you get to meet the last owner, see where it's been kept and how it's been maintained and you know that it's not been a tarted up auction sourced car. Wise to take a knowledgeable second pair of eyes with you though.
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If it has a good service history and is in good condition then it sounds like a great buy. The Mot history checks out www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ and that mileage means it's barely run in. But remember, despite that low mileage the timing belt was due at 8 years or 100k whichever comes first so if there's no receipt to prove it's been done then negotiate at least £300 off to cover it and get it done along with the water pump as soon as you get it. Shouldn't cost more than this but get a quote from your garage before offering so you know where you stand. As a private sale you have no comeback what so ever but I like buying this way as you get to meet the last owner, see where it's been kept and how it's been maintained and you know that it's not been a tarted up auction sourced car. Wise to take a knowledgeable second pair of eyes with you though.
Will take into account.
Thanks for the lengthy advice!
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From the descriptions I'd favour the burgundy Focus that's only had two owners, has full history and a recent t/belt but the other one owner car looks good too so it would be worth seeing both in the metal.
Yeah, that Focus jumped off the screen at me too. Preventative maintenance is always a good thing, and an owner that goes to the expense of doing the timing belt is very conscientious. It's not a cheap job, so someone running a car on a tight budget will skip it.
Next thing is to have a look on the DVLA website, see what MOT failures/advisories there have been, gives you the annual mileage in the last few years, etc.
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As ever, condition and some service history are more important at this budget level than make or model, but if pushed many of us tend to suggest something Japanese and petrol-powered. But Fords are always worth putting on a shortlist as there are more of them to choose from, and - particularly as you are willing to do some jobs yourself - Ford parts are cheaper and easier toi get than many others.
Either of the Focuses look possible - it may depend on which end of the country you live in. If you're miles from either London or Cheshire, look for something nearer home, in case (buying from a trade seller) you have a problem.
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The only issue I have with the 1,6 Focus from that era is that every one I've driven has seemed awful on fuel for the performance. They seem to struggle much over 30mpg in any normal driving.
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How about a 1.8 newer(2006+) model Honda Civic - You might JUST struggle to find one under 100k miles for your budget but they are extremely reliable
The 1.8 petrol performs well and real life economy is very good. I'd avoid the earlier 1.4
Previous model 1.6 very good but getting old now
www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2006
Edited by Big John on 03/12/2016 at 10:36
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I didn't think of the newer Civic's.
Just had a look and as you said for 2k most of them are over 100k mileage, raised the budget to 2.5k out of curiosity and there are a few more with lower mileage but still way more than a Focus or equivalent would have for the price.
Still I'm gonna try and drive one next weekend, maybe I'll become more convinced.
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Eighth gen 1.8 Civic is a good car with loads of room, plenty of go and a near bombproof chain driven engine but it's dearer to buy and dearer for parts. Anything you find around your budget will have heavy mileage on it and the Focus while slower and worse on fuel is a nicer handling car with much nicer steering feel.
The older seventh gen cars are even better made, have a better rear suspension set up and handle and ride better than the later cars. The 1.6 VTEC is a strong long lived engine that's quicker and better on fuel than the Focus and has one of the best gear changes you'll find on any car. We had one for years without hassle, though the rack was rattling and getting sticky when I traded it. Steering racks (can go at as little as 60k) and worn gearbox bearings (usually well beyond 120k) are common failures.
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Eighth gen 1.8 Civic is a good car with loads of room, plenty of go and a near bombproof chain driven engine but it's dearer to buy and dearer for parts. Anything you find around your budget will have heavy mileage on it and the Focus while slower and worse on fuel is a nicer handling car with much nicer steering feel. The older seventh gen cars are even better made, have a better rear suspension set up and handle and ride better than the later cars. The 1.6 VTEC is a strong long lived engine that's quicker and better on fuel than the Focus and has one of the best gear changes you'll find on any car. We had one for years without hassle, though the rack was rattling and getting sticky when I traded it. Steering racks (can go at as little as 60k) and worn gearbox bearings (usually well beyond 120k) are common failures.
My plan for next weekend is to drive a Mk2 Focus, Mazda 3, 7th gen Civic and make a more informed decision then.
Thanks a lot for the advice, really appreciate it!
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When you look at the Honda Civic, try out the magic rear seats that either fold away complete with seat base or lift up allowing for high loads. Just sourced a Honda Jazz for my sister that has the same (albeit smaller) arrangment and it's amazing.
Good luck with your search
Edited by Big John on 03/12/2016 at 22:14
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