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old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

I have recieved a summons to go to court for failure to comply with insurance requirements..

it state on the 10/6/14 the vehicle did not meet contrary to section 22 rta 2006. a fixed penalty was sent to me with accordance to section 144a and 144c of the traffic act 1998 plus a valid payment was not recieved by the date specified..

I sold the car earlier in the year i could not remember the date i thought it was in May 2014... I even rang the lady i sold it to to find out if she still had it. She had then sold it on to someone else... I got a number for the gentlemen. Asked him if i could have a copy... No problem he said. I now had a B&W copy.

It states on the log book at the front the she had acquired the vehicle on the 01.06.2014 then sold it to the gentlemen had acquired it on 08.07.2014.

the letter i got through the post says i am required to appear at court on the 18/11/2014 to either pled guitly or not guilty. I can do this by post... ETC

I have always had insurance Tax and mot on all my cars. I do have one that is sorned. Which is on my drive which i have to sorn every year.. so i dont understand where the DVLA are coming from.... I sent the log book off etc when i sold it... I think i got something through the post and sent it back to the dvla, but cant remember what... Has you do i chucked out old papers etc.... relating to old cars.. Are you suppose to send things Recorded Delivery. I sent it via normal post probably second class. does the DVLA lose stuff....

So the question is what are the DVLA really saying to me... Do i need a solicitor?

Can i claim for false aligations. If they cant see the date on the log book at the front of their paper work what hope is there....

So what do i do now?

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Palcouk

When you seel a car, there is a section of the log book to fill regarding the seller/sold date, you give that to the purchaser and you fill in the purchasers details then send the log book to the dvla, after about two weeks they acknowledge, if no acknowledgement you phone the dvla to check whether they have received/processed

Its your responsibility to check whether DVLA received the log book.

Your own insurance details would show the dates that car was insured by you.

If a local court attend with your paperwork stating the date you had sold and showing the details of change of ownership registered 01/06/14 that being the case you were not the owner on 10/06/14

If you wish to pay for a solicitor do so but you wont be able to recover the costs, and any false aligation doesnt apply

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

Thank you Palcouk.

I was unsure why the DVLA wanted to me to go to court. In the first place..

I started a new job. In the public sector so i was worried about it.. If at all it would affect my job. I haved never done anything wrong. Dont get me wrong i have had a parking ticket and points for speeding once.

I did not know you have to chase the DVLA for acknowledgements. I just presumed once they had the paper work and the new owner got it is was all ok... It just goes to show that computers must spit these things out and nobody checks.. It wouldn't have been so bad if i could ring the DVLA or the courts but not sure if i can. Now they have decided to take it to court. It seems a waste of tax payers money to have it read in court. When other things are more important....

It just puzzles me.......

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - skidpan

I did not know you have to chase the DVLA for acknowledgements.

You don't. Within 2 weeks of sending off the V5C to the DVLA with the new owner details on it you will receive an acknowledegment informing you that its been sorted and you are no longer the registered keeper.

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

ok the next stage.. So i pledded not guilty. I went to the court and handed the paperwork in including a copy of the log book. which states the new owner was indeed on the 01/06. SO i popped a copy of this with the paperwork. I thought that would be an end to it.

Only to find out they still want to me to either pay the fine. Or go to court. They say they got the paperwork from the selling of the car after the date of the notice...

I know i sent it second class.. But surely how can you prove when they got it. I am not guilty of this and cant quiet believe that they are wasting my time and the courts time persuming this....

should i ask the new owner for a letter to take. Stating that the car was sold on the 1/6/14. Then resold on the date in july i think. I felt cheeky that i ask her for a copy of the log book in the first place. She had sold it not long after to someone else. Not only will it cost me half a day off at work and paying for car parking. Its the worrying.....

So whats my next step.Please can someone advise me....

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver

>>>>Only to find out they still want to me to either pay the fine. Or go to court<<<<

Bit confusing. Your say you went to Court. They cannot fine you without a hearing and a Guilty finding, or was the case a plea hearing and adjourned to a later date for full hearing.

You are alleged to have committed the offence on 10.6.14

Evidence in Log book of which you have copy says vehicle changed hands 1.6.14 so you were not the owner on 10.6.14. Can you persuage the owner to give evidence at Court as to that or at the very least a letter which the Court may or may not accept.

So on and prior to 1.6.14 you say you complied with Registration and Licensing Regs by sending off the V5 by post and you can give evidence on oath to this effect

The under the following:

Section 7 Interpretation Act 1978
References to service by post.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

it is down to DVLA to disprove that you didn't send it off.

You now consider your options. Fight with a Not Guilty or accept a fine.

Continuing the fight and you get another Court date arrive early and seek out the Duty Solicitor and see if he isprepared to help you

dvd

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

thanks Dwight van driver

I went to the court house to hand the not guilty plea and the paperwork, with a friend from work. I did not attend court for the first reading. They sent me another date in Jan to attend for a hearing. With the paperwork they sent a copy of the log book i sent in with the date on the top saying the 19th. I dont work for the DVla

I think the lady who bought the car will give me a letter saying that she took ownership of the car on the 1/6/14. But is that setting her up for the fine. I spoke to her this morning. She had taken it to a garage to have some work done on the car. So the garage had insurance on the car whilst in there getting fixed. She thought.

Anyway her son did not want the car, so she sold it on. He wanted a scooter...

I posted the DVLA paperwork for the car that week. I sold it on a Sunday. I know it was a 2 nd class stamp. I cant remember which day I put in the post box. But it’s not my fault that the post office or the dvla did not process it until the 19 th of June. Post goes missing and gets lost. I can’t believe that the dvla process all the mail they receive on the day they get it. Should I ask the DVLA to prove this.. I would like to see the posted date on the envelope I sent it in. But I bet they don’t keep it.

I am NOT GUILTY and don’t see why I should be bullied into paying for something I did not do.

How much will a duty solicitor cost?

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver
England and Wales Court Duty Solicitor (Free

In England and Wales, there are two duty solicitor schemes, which operate in parallel. The police station duty solicitor scheme enables a person who is arrested on suspicion of a criminal offence to consult with a solicitor, either in person or on the telephone (and frequently both) whilst in police custody. This right is most often taken up when the suspect is to be interviewed concerning their suspected involvement in the commission of a crime.

The court duty solicitor scheme allows a person that has already been charged with an offence to consult with and be represented by a solicitor at the Magistrates' Court on their first appearance if they do not have, or simply have not contacted, their own solicitor. The right to see the duty solicitor applies equally to those defendants who are in custody or on bail, but the right is not unlimited – if the defendant is on bail and is charged with an offence that does not carry a sentence of imprisonment the duty solicitor is not permitted to act. A client is only permitted to take advantage of duty solicitor assistance on one occasion in respect to each matter charged. This contrasts with the right to advice from the duty solicitor whilst at the police station, which applies irrespective of what the alleged offence may be, and will last for the duration of any investigation. Some matters have been largely taken outside of the duty solicitor scheme at the police station due to the advent of Criminal Defence Service Direct, a telephone advice service that deals with many minor offences where an interview will not take place.

The duty solicitor schemes in England and Wales are managed by the Legal Services Commission. Each magistrates' court that operates such a scheme will have one or more solicitors allocated to any given court session. The police station schemes have one or more solicitors on duty for each police station, or police area (occasionally covering a number of police stations), depending on how busy the scheme. The busiest schemes in the country, can have a number of solicitors on duty at any one time. The Central Manchester scheme for example has 4 solicitors on duty at any one time.

To act as a duty solicitor a solicitor must be a member of the Law Society's Criminal Litigation Accreditation Scheme [1]. To become a member of the scheme a solicitor must demonstrate a particular level of competence set by the Law Society. To demonstrate competence, a solicitor must pass a number of assessments.

As previously stated it will help your case if you have a witness/s that can show that you were not the owner on the date the offence was alleged to have been committed either verbally or in documentation.

Dont be put off by a Court appearance. If you plead not Guilty the Court Clerk will guide you through the system and give you a chance to present all your evidence.

dvd

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Avant

Very many thanks once again, DVD. It really is good of you to go to the trouble of giving us the benefit of your experience on matters like this.

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Armitage Shanks {p}

Totally agred. DVD; has been been giving us the benefit of his knowledge for many years.

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

thank you dvd.

So on the morning i go to court. i should ask for a duty solicitor. sorry to ask but i am not sure on what to do. Never had to do anything like this b4.

So before i go into court or when i am in court. If before lets say my case is being heard at 9.30am should i ask for one then or when i arrive which is at 9am?

many thanks cant wait for your reply *;0)

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver

Arrive at Court early.

There will be a " Court Usher" most likely wearing a black gown. Earhole him and ask him to put you in touch with the Court Duty Solicitor asap.

Dont fret. Stay calm. Being at Court is easier than going to the Dentist. Your will be guided through the system.

dvd

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - slkfanboy

The V5 related to the keeper of the car not the owner. The sale of a car could be provided by the production of receipt or maybe a bank statement etc.

The question of the effective date of letter is slightly confusing as I suspect is was the date the latter was sent, but recent rules may have changed this to the date reasonably the letter could be read. So maybe the 2-3 working days.

Therefore if the DVLA have the letter and you posted it before the 7th then there is no case to answer.

It's important to understand the legal principals. I suspect you need to prove ownership not keeper.

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver

ATTENTION HONEST CHOPS

Anything to report --- like an update

dvd

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

Going to court in the morning. Got a letter from the owner saying they had the car on the 1st of june. so i can hand this in at court. The lady said i could phone from court if the judge wants to speak to her.

I will let you know the out come.

Sorry i have not posted back earlier had a unplanned time in hospital over xmas.

Must admit i am very nervous not sure why. I suppose i have never been to court before. But not worried because i have done nothing wrong. A friend from work is coming with me. will they be allowed in the court room?

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver

Fear not Honest chops

Do not be overawed by the Court. You should find it quite friendly and if you ask you will be guided through the procedure.

As stated earlier try and have a word with the Court Duty Solicitor.

We await your next post.

dvd

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - honestchops

Well DVD

If you are attending a DVLA court hearing. You dont get a duty solicitor. I did ask. Only if you have a chance of going to jail...

Very nervous. I spoken to the dvla court Prosecutor they wanted me to plead guilty with a reduced fine of £50. I dont think this was fair. I plead not guilty. I did nothing wrong. The lady prosecutor called me back in after about an hour asking when i post the V5 it was on the 4th. I signed a witness statement and they then quash or is it overturn withdrew the charge.

They were not even interested in the letter from the new owner. The trouble the new owner went to. I feel what a waste of the courts time and mine.

Anyway i won. Justice wins the day......

I would like to thank everyone for helping me...

I took a work mate with me for moral support, boy them places well courts make you feel guilty even when you have done nothing wrong...

Its all over a good start to 2015

Ta Honestchops *;0)

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Dwight Van Driver

RESULT with a capital R.

Well done for sticking to your guns.

Think of it this way. You'd pay 40 -50 quid to watch a footie match. Today you had entertainment free and scored a goal against English justice, whilst not always perfect, best in the world.

dvd

je suis charlie

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - Bromptonaut

So they took you all the way to door of court and then withdrew charge on evidence they'd known all along? That is outrageous.

I know civil cases work that way but at end of day they're about money and commercial intersts so 'tactics' are fair game. 'Gaming' with unrepresented members of the public in low level Magistrates Court Cases is scandalous.

Your probably so glad it's over that you want to put it behind but I'd be pursuing complaints with DVLA (and CPS too if they were involved).

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - JimmyLemon

Well done. It's amazing a public body can feel so blase about wasting tax payers money like this. Even worse when they pursue unrepresented citizens without near certainty of their case. I will be keeping this in mind should my own issues escalate that far.

I'd definitely make an official complaint. Perhaps see your MP!

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - FP

Only just looked in on this again - I've been sweating over my income tax return.

Very glad for Honestchops about the outcome.

Apart from the result itself, I agree that the conduct of this case leaves a lot to be desired. The bit I dislike the most is the bargaining with the DVLA prosecutor, who must have guessed that their case was going down the pan, but still tried to screw £50 out of you.

Hopefully the OP will not be faced with something like this ever again.

old ford fiesta - fixed penalty notice now being sent to court - alastairq

<<<Today you had entertainment free and scored a goal against English justice, whilst not always perfect, best in the world.>>>

Now, I may be wrong here, but surely the goal was FOR justice, being done, rather than agin it?

Well done to the OP for sticking to your guns.