Got metal in the oil, get a sample tested. The basic test does a spectrographic analysis. That will point at what is wearing eg bore, bearings etc.

Like I said, its ferrous metal.

I THINK that implies that it could be coming (in rough order of probability) from the cams, the oil pump, or the crankshaft, with perhaps the piston rings as a trace source.

It wont be bores or bearings because they aren't ferrous.

(They could of course be wearing as well, and probably are, but most of what I'm seeing seems to be ferrous)

I don't know if a standard oil-analysis could distinguish between these three sources, but I'd bet not.

It MIGHT be possible if the detailed metallurgy of the three sources was different, and they could resolve those differences, and they knew what they were for this particular car.

Edited by edlithgow on 26/01/2014 at 09:13

Analysis would help with quantifying the metal(s) present in the oil. The level may or may not be indicative of wear, or maybe of contamination, when the oil was last changed.

My post was probably a little out of order as I'm obviously out of my depth here. After all, I've only been a diesel technician/diagnostician/maintenance manager on industrial plant (1.5mW and up) for 25 years, before moving on to new challenges.

Spectrographic oil analysis is just one of many condition monitoring systems available, and it is widely used.

I can assure you that finding traces of metals (some of which can be identified as to their probable origin by trace markers - piston rings aren't made of the same material as camshafts, oil pump elements, vac pump vanes and so on) would not on its own cause me to order the stripping down and examination of an engine. EG. If I found traces of copper, tin, lead or antimony I would be looking for a journal failure, not RE bearing wear or oil pump failure, similarly chrome moly van steel would have me looking elsewhere and chrome nickel likewise.

The thought of stripping an engine down on such a whim is usually the preserve of land rover anoraks.

They should market it to oil companies they have been spending millions of dollars on labs and chemists to think they could get the same result for a few pounds.What a load of rubbish people will buy anything with the right amount of advertising.

Personally I would like to know why some posters on here think the oil and car makers are ripping us motorists off. When I bought my first car, a 1964 Ford Anglia the schedule included 1000 mile or monthly checks, a 3 monthly or 3000 mile lubrication service (including oil change) and a 6 month or 6000 mile major service. The schedule even included a decoke at a specific mileage.

40 or so years later a majority of cars need an oil change annually or 10,000 miles and a major sservice every 2 or 3 years.

So by reducing the required maintenance by over 70% they are ripping us off, I don't think so.

OK, we all hate spending money but with todays labour costs just imagine what we would be paying for a 1964 service schedule.

I've also been told (by a professional mechanic here who I tend to believe) that the longer service intervals (particularly on German cars, which here tend to die young after an expensive period of terminal care) are a marketing gambit and significantly reduce service life.

I ran a German car for well over 100,000 miles doing an oil change every 10,000 miles. Only used the manufacturer specified mineral 10w/40 oil, nothing special. Car was in perfect condition mechanically when I sold it at 7 years old. It would have been 25 years old this May but I think it finally died last November.

With the modern fully synth oils there is no reason why oil change intervals cannot be increased, whether you want to do so is another matter especially when oil is not that expensive, at £21 for 5 litres for mine and the wifes cars its peanuts compared to the rest of our motoring expenses.

Most cars are killed by their owners not doing the basic maintenance needed or ignoring small faults which if left have a habit of becoming serious faults.

Metal particles in your oil is not a small fault, its serious.

I believe the average age of scrapping cars in the UK has reduced, over several decades, from 14 years to 12 - this despite the better rust-proofing. This is mainly due to the economics of repair along with the changed attitude that youngsters no longer want to start with an "old banger".

"Rip-off" is just an emotive name for "profit".

Just think how bad things would be if firms didn't make profits - they certainly wouldn't employ all those people so much more strain on Unemployment Benefit - sales would be much lower so far less govt revenue from VAT - firms only pay tax on profits so even less govt revenue.

The net result would be 50% income tax for the few people left working.

In reality, there's no such thing as excessive profit - if a product/price is excessively profitable then competition steps in to sell a similar product cheaper, but still make a profit.

In the modern world, every economic model except consumerism has failed - even the Viking system of old failed eventually, ie pillage!

Does it matter where the metal is coming from?

The engine needs a complete strip down, full examination and reconditioning as appropriate.

I must say I'm surprised to see such enthusiasm for an engine strip-down coming from a UK discussion board. Much more what I'd expect from the US.

When I was in the UK, an engine strip would have been FAR beyond most amateur mechanics comfort zone, and the cost of getting it done commercially would have been completely uneconomic for the vast majority of cars.

I'd doubt that's changed, though perhaps the shameful UK Govt scrappage scheme means that the disposable banger concept is no longer so viable.

I've done some fairly major spannering when I was younger, and wouldn't completely rule out a DIY engine strip, though I'm not very keen or confident.

IF I could find someone I'd trust to do it (not that simple in the Yook, very difficult here) labour charges are much lower here so a professional job would be much cheaper, BUT this car has zero market value. Its worth something to me, because no-cat simple manual gearbox cars are a scarce resource, but it'd be very easy to get into silly money territory.

Well yes. Its b******s. That was rather my point.

I'm not claiming this as PROOF that oil doesn't have a shelf life, of course, since it clearly isn't, but it does tend to reinforce my scepticism.

This is just about recommendations, which are quite likely to be an arbitary number rather than research-based. I havn't seen any reports of formal research on this.

Anecdotally, and 4WIW, I've seen a post somewhere by a retired Mobil oil technician to the effect that the (5-year for Mobil) shelf life recommendation came from the marketing department, but 20+ year old oil tested exactly the same as when new. I don't know what tests he was talking about, though.

That'll apply to most people/cars, and I suppose it may be one of the reasons for the short shelf life recommendations, so they don't have to confuse the alphabetically challenged with API grades, etc.

Doesn't aply to my car, though, since API SD was originally specified, and none of my old oily plunder stuff is anything like as old a spec as that.

That said, I think you have to go a rather long way back before they claim actual damage will result from obsolete spec oils in even a new car, though performance might not be optimal and the catalyst life might be shortened.