Scotland Independence Referendum

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 12:42
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

Are there any Scottish folk on here who could give us their thoughts on this? From my viewpoint down here in Southern England it is very difficult to take Mr Salmond and his arguments seriously.

Sterling-zone?

Seriously?

Come off it.

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 14:01
Scotland Independence Referendum - Bromptonaut

Not Scottish but I'm unclear why it should be seen as so far fetched. At the moment the practicalities are lost in a political fug over whether the basic principle of Scottish Independence is right or not.

Only after a referendum will either side get real about the practicalities.

While I'm surprised that Salmond does not have an apparent plan B there are precedents for such arrangements. The obvious one is the parity of exchange between the UK and Irish currency which carried on for decades. In practice E,W S & NI will remain in a loose federation even after and Scots independence.

Why is a Sterling zone so impossible there while it's not in question under 'Devo-Max'.

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 14:03
Scotland Independence Referendum - Ordovices

I have spent much of my working life in Scotland and I have found little enthusiasm amongst the ordinary working folk for independence. However, this is still a foray into tiger country, I think there is a genuine risk that apathy and complacency could see the nationalists do better than expected, especially when they're supported by such high profile jocks such as Sean Connery, Billy Connolly and Ken Loach (none of whom live in Scotland AFAIK).

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 16:22
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

Not Scottish but I'm unclear why it should be seen as so far fetched

Why is a Sterling zone so impossible there while it's not in question under 'Devo-Max'.

I'm not questioning the mechanics of such an arrangement, of course it's possible. My problem with it is how it undermines Salmonds basic argument.

For years he has said he wants independence, but he's quite happy for a Canadian in London to set his independent nations interest rate for him. Unsurprisingly he doesn't verbalise it that way, because he'd sound stupid if he did.

Salmond also wants his independent Scotland to be in the EU, which is an oxym**** in itself. For the first time ever, the Commission President has been helpful to Britain and explained an independent Scotland would need to re-apply for membership, then join the Euro. Meaning an Italian banker in Frankfurt would then set the interest rate for Salmonds independent nation.

So talk of a Sterling Zone for a Scotland still in the EU, is an irrelevant debate anyway.

. The obvious one is the parity of exchange between the UK and Irish currency which carried on for decades

Yes when the Irish still used the Pound, the British Chancellor (who no Irish resident could vote for) would decide Irelands interest rate and give them 24 hours notice. For Salmond to want a similar arrangement is very bizarre.

It just seems very rich of Salmond to bait & goad the English for decades, bang on about it being 'Scotlands oil' and all the rest of it, but when it comes to the crunch he wants to cherry pick all the stuff he likes about being in the union, but get rid of everything he doesn't.

The man is not credible and never has been.

Edited by jamie745 on 27/11/2013 at 16:23

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 17:34
Scotland Independence Referendum - Andrew-T

With you all the way on this one, Jamie. We must just hope that enough intelligent Scots vote. Presumably Messrs Connery, Connolly et al. will have to take up residence if they want to? Or maybe they are just paid to act for the cameras.

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Wed 27 Nov 2013 18:52
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

Well the bill says only residents of Scotland, who are British, EU or Commonwealth citizens can vote in this referendum. If Sean Connery is able to vote by virtue of a Scottish holiday home, when he lives in Barbados 364 days a year, I don't know.

There is maybe a realistic concern that complacency could lead to the nationalists doing well, but I'd still be incredibly surprised if Scotland voted to leave the UK. There seems to be a solid 25% support base for it, and even that's dropped since the EU told them they'd have to join the Euro.

The way I view independence is simple; You have your own armed forces, your own currency, your own head of state, your own public services and everything else.

The only thing they should inherit from their days as part of the UK, is their per capita share of the national debt. Only fair, considering the previous Prime Minister who racked up most of the debt was elected to do so three times in a Scottish constituency.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 09:01
Scotland Independence Referendum - gordonbennet

Hmm, wonder if English resident voters will get a referendum for their devolution.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 16:48
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

Hmm, wonder if English resident voters will get a referendum for their devolution.

Don't be silly. We'd have to be some kind of persecuted minority to get fair treatment from the British state. The people who live here and bankroll it have been treated with contempt for years.

Didn't John Prescott once tell us English isn't a real nationality?

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 21:38
Scotland Independence Referendum - galileo

Hmm, wonder if English resident voters will get a referendum for their devolution.

Don't be silly. We'd have to be some kind of persecuted minority to get fair treatment from the British state. The people who live here and bankroll it have been treated with contempt for years.

Didn't John Prescott once tell us English isn't a real nationality?

Every time I receive forms where the ethnicity options include 'Irish', 'White British', etc, I cross out 'White British and write 'ENGLISH'. I hope the problems this causes the issuers annoy them as much as they have annoyed me.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 22:10
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

Every time I receive forms where the ethnicity options include 'Irish', 'White British', etc, I cross out 'White British and write 'ENGLISH'. I hope the problems this causes the issuers annoy them as much as they have annoyed me.

Quite. I don't object to only appropriate option being 'White British' but it's when the options are White British, White Welsh, White Scottish & White Northern Irish is when I get annoyed. White-everything-but-English.

I also don't understand why St Georges Day isn't a Bank Holiday, but St Andrews Day is a Bank Holiday in Scotland and St Davids Day is a Bank Holiday in Wales.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 21:38
Scotland Independence Referendum - galileo

Hmm, wonder if English resident voters will get a referendum for their devolution.

Don't be silly. We'd have to be some kind of persecuted minority to get fair treatment from the British state. The people who live here and bankroll it have been treated with contempt for years.

Didn't John Prescott once tell us English isn't a real nationality?

Every time I receive forms where the ethnicity options include 'Irish', 'White British', etc, I cross out 'White British and write 'ENGLISH'. I hope the problems this causes the issuers annoy them as much as they have annoyed me.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 22:01
Scotland Independence Referendum - gordonbennet
Every time I receive forms where the ethnicity options include 'Irish', 'White British', etc, I cross out 'White British and write 'ENGLISH'. I hope the problems this causes the issuers annoy them as much as they have annoyed me.

Galileo, good for you.

I do similar, also on ethnicity forms there is sometimes one tick box for white european (approved?), but loads for people of other colour...i object strongly to those and always voice my disapproval there and then (surprising how many who work at these places agree with me), i'm white British so i'm OK apparently am i tick here, but if i happened to be a certain shade of black or slightly Asian or whatever these cheeky blighters want to know the ins and outs of the cats backside, no way matey, do your own spying.

Those other forms, the ones that require your social status, you know the ones, where those who work for a living manually are down at the very bottom...well for the last 40 years now i've been crossing out all possibles and writing across all ''scum of the earth lorry driver''...there so if anyone reading works for the parasite state and has noticed it was me.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 22:33
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

I do similar, also on ethnicity forms there is sometimes one tick box for white european (approved?)

That's usually linked to the EU trying to claim there's a sense of European identity. They can say 'x amount of people say they're European' when in reality nobody goes on holiday somewhere and says 'I'm from Europe.'

well for the last 40 years now i've been crossing out all possibles and writing across all ''scum of the earth lorry driver''.

Most of the ones I see have a never ending plethora of jobs I've never heard of in alphabetical order. Upon deeper inspection - and insurance companies are the worst - most of the jobs turn out to mean the same thing.

That joke of a 'class survey' done by the BBC earlier this year, I went back and put different answers in it to see what it'd say. Interestingly they bump you down the social scale if you're self employed. Well I can think of self employed electricians who earn far more than what I do.

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Fri 29 Nov 2013 10:50
Scotland Independence Referendum - Bromptonaut

Every time I receive forms where the ethnicity options include 'Irish', 'White British', etc, I cross out 'White British and write 'ENGLISH'. I hope the problems this causes the issuers annoy them as much as they have annoyed me.

I doubt it annoys them at all though it might make them think about design of forms.

Although I'm white British I've no problem with disclosing my ethnicity (or my gender/sexuality etc). It's not as if they have a prurient interest in my life. Either they're commercial outfots looking to target their product or government monitoring the provision of its services.

Having done a bit of this stuff it's not someting you can ever get right. On the one hand people object to having multiple boxes for the White & British but on the other there are parts of the UK where self identifying as British is likley to say quite a lot about your culture - NI is the obvious one.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 23:27
Scotland Independence Referendum - Avant

"I also don't understand why St Georges Day isn't a Bank Holiday, but St Andrews Day is a Bank Holiday in Scotland and St Davids Day is a Bank Holiday in Wales."

I agree with you in principle, but unfortunately St. George's Day is on 23 April - too near to Easter and to the two bank holidays in May.

I'd rather see a bank holiday on or near Trafalgar Day (21 October) instead of the Socialist Workers' Holiday in May.

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Thu 28 Nov 2013 23:50
Scotland Independence Referendum - jamie745

I agree with you in principle, but unfortunately St. George's Day is on 23 April - too near to Easter and to the two bank holidays in May.

Then scrap one of the Bank Holidays in May and put it in October?

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Fri 29 Nov 2013 07:11
Scotland Independence Referendum - wrangler_rover

I realise that throughout history, the Scots have ben badly treated by English and many still resent the fact.

Scotland has benefits over England in it's own parliament, tuition fees etc.

With these benefits and the "Anyone except England mentality" held by some Scots in sporting events, if there was a referndum in England to the effect "Do you want to keep Scotland in the union?" The outcome may be that a substantial number of English would vote for Scotland to be given independence.

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Wed 4 Dec 2013 14:05
Scotland Independence Referendum - concrete

My two penny worth, for what it's worth! Born in Scotland, Scottish father, Irish mother. Dad in RAF so moved around, settled in England after dad retired and got a decent job. Lived most of my working life in England. Worked a lot of my working life in Scotland in construction. Scotland is a great country with great people, but so is Ireland and England. Can't speak for Wales, only been once but I am sure it's the same. People are much the same eveywhere with the same interests and worries and you get treated how you treat other people. Most Scots I know and work with don't have any time for 'Slippery Salmond' (there nickname-not mine). They see it as an ego trip. Most are fairly happy with the independence as it stands although they complain as much about their politicians as we do here. Most are aware that to untangle the current arrangement is a can of worms of unintended consequences. If it ain't broke-don't fix it still holds true.

As for the sporting banter, this must be taken with a large pinch of salt. If you rise to it they will rag you forever. A bit of banter back about there sporting past usually quietens the situation and is taken in good part too. The Scots have a rare sense of humour, it is much more fun to go with it that to bridle against it, then when it is your turn to take the michael they take it on the chin. Altogher a sound race who can see Salmond for what he really is- an opportunist shister. Cheers Concrete

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