Also is there not a 4% variable on speedos and how do we find out the calibration of cameravan? Or should I put up and shut up.
I believe ACPO guidelines allow 10% + 2 mph over limits as a margin, so forces which follow those guidelines would not prosecute for 35 in a 30 ( 30+3+2). I note that court reports in my area for 'speed camera' offences often list 36 in a 30 / 47 in a 40 etc but not lower speeds.
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Your speedometer must overead by law. At 30 mph it has to show between 30-32 mph. I don't think you will get very far with the variation of speedo's as the chances are at indicated 36 your speedo was showing 37-40mph.
As regards who was driving then the RK has an obligation under s.172 of the road traffic act to furnish the authorities with the information of the driver. Unless your wife can demonstrate that she really cannot say if it was you or her at the wheel then one of you will take the wrap.
Speed awareness course and a little more care in the future might be the best course of action.
Good luck
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>>Your speedometer must overead by law.
Really? I understood it must not read under at all or read over by more than 10%.
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>>Your speedometer must overead by law.
Really? I understood it must not read under at all or read over by more than 10%.
Same thing in practice - it must not under-read, but since it's not cost-effective to make it accurate to umpteen decimals they all over-read - but it must not over-read by more than 10% at a set speed, I think 30 mph.
Which means that if you keep your speedo at or below the limit then you'll never commit a speeding offence.
Edited by RT on 23/04/2013 at 15:51
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Is there not a risk that we 'guess it' with no ill intent (we've both clear clean licences) and in doing so someone takes a wrongful hit?
I was brought up to believe Civil = Balance of Probs / Crim proof beyond reas doubt.
Also is there not a 4% variable on speedos and how do we find out the calibration of cameravan? Or should I put up and shut up.
The point about Huhne and all the other's doing podge was that the Conspired to pervert the course of justice. Either they knowingly put up the wrong driver or try some other dodge (car cloned, or driven by a foreigner who's now in darkest Peru).
If you put forward the one you think more likley then you're unlikley to have any trouble.
Unless you run off with a bi-sexual collaeague of course :-)
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I suppose I'm also way off target moping about my:-
1. Stolen Goods (£1,500) 2008, crime number & indifference & premium hike
2. Burglary in progress 2000 - one & three quarter hours to turn up from station 1 mile away
3. Stolen Goods (£2,100) 2013, crime number & indifference & premium hike
4. Illegal drugs offered to (my) elder teenage kids & drink "spiked"
(oh put up and shut up)
Edited by JOGON on 24/04/2013 at 20:06
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If we spent even more taxes on policing, we could have more police - if we spent a fortune on policing we could have sufficient police numbers to lock down a British city at short notice like the military-like police did in Boston.
The problem with more police numbers is that they'll be policing the laws we don't like as well as those we do !
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If we spent even more taxes on policing, we could have more police - if we spent a fortune on policing we could have sufficient police numbers to lock down a British city at short notice like the military-like police did in Boston.
The problem with more police numbers is that they'll be policing the laws we don't like as well as those we do !
I understand that in the USA tax levels are lower than here: they may spend more on police because they spend less on other things*, also, local police chiefs/mayors are subject to election and can be replaced if voters aren't satisfied.
* I make no comment as to whether this is a good or bad thing, views obviously differ.
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Your wife needs to think about the particulars of the journey and who could have been driving at that point. The fact it was a holiday day makes it more likely you would remember what you were doing. Obviously it would be better for one of you to do the speed awareness course but if you genuinely don't know who was the driver then you can't name. The Huhne case has scared a lot of people about naming when they're not 100% sure!
If your wife genuinely doesn't know then she would have a defence to failing to name providing she can show she used reasonable diligence to try to work it out.
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I suppose I'm also way off target moping about my:-
1. Stolen Goods (£1,500) 2008, crime number & indifference & premium hike
2. Burglary in progress 2000 - one & three quarter hours to turn up from station 1 mile away
3. Stolen Goods (£2,100) 2013, crime number & indifference & premium hike
4. Illegal drugs offered to (my) elder teenage kids & drink "spiked"
(oh put up and shut up)
Some sympathy on numbers 1-3 but none are excuses. Where police listen to and list community concerns speeding is nearly always in the top 3 The hypocrisy of many of those raising the subject while being cavalier about limits in other folk's back yards is obvious.
Frankly I'd be surprised if any late teen who's been to a nightclub has not been offered E. In my day it was 'Charlie'. Drinks spiked with what? I'm afraid some kids think adding Vodka to soft drinks, even those of a designated driver, is a giggle. OTOH by time the driving limit is broached most would be aware they were getting tipsy.
Sedatives such as GHB (ie the 'date rape' drug) are more serious. My two, particularly my daughter are very careful about keeping drinks in sight and not accepting stuff from strangers. So are their friends.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 25/04/2013 at 14:48
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Brompt
>The hypocrisy of many of those raising the subject while being cavalier about limits in other folk's back yards is obvious<
Please, please no finger wagging.
I had "supposed I was way off target"- did you see the bit where I'd said put up and shut up.
The point I was (perhaps clumsily) trying to make was that this slick automated system harvests revenue.
The other items I listed which "cost" the force to process.
And so they "didn't".
So reversing the argument:- items 1-4 ought not to be policed?
36 in a 30 no housing 1/3 mile before village should be absolute offence.
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JOGON,
Apologies, the hypocrisy comment was not aimed at you. My target was those citizens of my own village who turn up when the Police are visiting the Parish Council and demand action on speeding. Same folks don't slow down in next village.
Of course the other items should be policed although 'soft' drug enforcement is a hiding to nothing and I doubt teenagers spiking their mates drinks is a prority. Administration of sedatives with intention of non-consensual sex is another question of course.
And the revenue from Cameras only comes form those who don't play the game and observe the camera. Indeed when my wife was caught I told her it wasn't for speed it was for failing to observe a chuffin great van parked on the verge and with a camera stencilled on it's rear.
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I agree with Brompton..there is consderable hypocrisy regarding our own 'speeding'...and everyone else's.
Trouble with 'speeding' is, everybody takes the speed limit is as a personal attack on their own skill, and liberty.
Very few drivers or riders ever consider the effect their speed has on the ability of other road users to cope with those same drivers or riders.
People complain about 'traffic-calming' measures..humps, bumps, 'give-way' islands that create choke points.....or even, the odd parked car.
What they fail to admit to is, the reason for these measures stem from drivers' inability to behave in a reasonable manner behind the wheel/handlebars.
So..despite enjoying riding and driving in extremis... I now always advocate every village, or even, vaguely residential area, being thus equipped.
And if they create a high level of inconvenience, we only have ourselves..as drivers and riders, to blame........which..of course...very few of us will actually do?
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I agree with Brompton..there is consderable hypocrisy regarding our own 'speeding'...and everyone else's.
Trouble with 'speeding' is, everybody takes the speed limit is as a personal attack on their own skill, and liberty.
Very few drivers or riders ever consider the effect their speed has on the ability of other road users to cope with those same drivers or riders.
People complain about 'traffic-calming' measures..humps, bumps, 'give-way' islands that create choke points.....or even, the odd parked car.
What they fail to admit to is, the reason for these measures stem from drivers' inability to behave in a reasonable manner behind the wheel/handlebars
It could be argued that driver behaviour these days is an example of the Law of unintended consequences: back in the days before seat belts, crumple zones and airbags, those who drove at speeds incompatible with road conditions and/or their skill suffered pain and injury when their luck ran out and they crashed. Now, criminals will drive like lunatics to escape police secure in the belief they'll survive. Many other drivers have the same mindset, which is why they use mobile phones, daydream, fail to observe and tailgate at 70mph.
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Thank you folks, Brompt ignore my feigned indignation.
Very helpful comments.
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Hull sent an offer to deal with this by going on a £75 course. These are around the UK and so I'll take it in my home town.
If we ever visit Hull again it will be via M62 with cruise control.
The York>Bishop Burton>Beverley road, whilst allowing stops, visits and food has too many National Limit/50/40/30 changes (perhaps out of necessity) to make it worthwhile.
Again, thank you for helpful comments
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Did the speed awareness course.
Realised some lack of knowledge of highway code etc and as a follow up booked on a RoSPA Advance Driver Course.
Bit more aware, driving more defensively and keeping to limits/conditions. Also trying to avoid / minimise distractions and going for calmer cooler music, if any.
Delight in being safer, saving fuel and cheating 'them' out of traffic fine revenues.
ps
The (afternoon) course was £75 Kirklees Council but held Leeds.
circa 30 delegates
Isn't that £18,000 per week?
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Also did the speed awareness course here in wales, £85, 22 of us that day and "instructors " 2 said 4 courses a DAY in cardiff, mostly full,at up to 30 people at a time.
Some of the excuses were sad, "beat the sat-nav" uphill, downhill, late, distracted while on phone, Self "driving without swmbo" (who monitors speed) sat nav with alerts had failed that morning!
Actually thought the course was dull, not much teaching and mostly dragged out for nearly 4 Hours. (was that the punishment?)
Since though, driving a lot slower, and enjoying the 10% fuel savings..
Asked insurance co and told does no count for anything, so no need to advise.
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Oldroverboy
Thanks - helpful. Usually no need to notify insurers.
The RoSPA courses are cheap and a good idea + they've a mass of free data on their site. So it still looks an earner but less public backlash cos it's educating rather than 'auto-points+cash fine'.
Do the maths on that Cardiff course tho'
4 x 30 @ £85 x 5
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Isn't that £18,000 per week?
Only if they're running two a day all week.
For your event the gross charge was £2250. Once you build in room hire, admin, possible tea & biccies and fee to ROSPA or whoever to provide the trainers it soon adds up.
No reason why the Council shouldn't make a profit provided it's ringfenced to road safety.
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No reason why the Council shouldn't make a profit provided it's ringfenced to road safety
Here i wales it goes to www.gosafe.org
but maybe some one knows how may days courses are held in cardiff
Speed Awareness Course
All four Police Forces in Wales are committed to road safety and the edu<*** src="http://www.gosafe.org/media/imageresize.ashx?img=Anita.jpg" alt="" width="250" height="166" align="right" />cation of drivers. The course costs £85 to attend and is offered as an alternative to the £60 fine and 3 penalty points. Motorists are only eligible providing they have not exceeded the speed limit by more than 10% + 9mph and have not completed a Speed Awareness Course within three years. Those exceeding the limit by over 10% + 9mph will be dealt with by way of a fixed penalty or court process.
The service providers for the courses are registered with the Association of National Driver Improvement Scheme Providers (ANDISP). All instructors are appropriately qualified DSA Approved Driving Instructors. Visit www.dft.gov.uk/DSA for further information. A Speed Awareness Course can be attended in any force area where the National Scheme (NDORS) has been adopted, irrespective of where the offence occurred.
The course is a four-hour classroom-based workshop and is designed to explore the reasons why people exceed the speed limit and aims to help develop a strategy to prevent further lapses. At the end of the course, drivers should be able to identify: -
• What causes drivers/riders to speed
• The consequences of misusing speed
• Speed limits whilst driving/riding
• Potential hazards on the road
There is no formal written test but drivers are expected to have a positive attitude. Courses are offered in the medium of Welsh and English and disabilities are catered for.
Up to 20 people may attend a course and every driver will be given relevant leaflets relating to road safety.
Only one course can be undertaken in any three year period and is not mandatory. The course provider will write to an applicant with details on how to book a course. Once a course is successfully completed, the file on that incident is closed and no further action taken. Each driver is notified of this in writing by the relevant Police force.
An offender has to complete the course within 4 months of the date of offence, failure to attend may result in prosecution.
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