Not a dickie bird said so far about the illegality of riding 2 up on an illegal e-bike.

Around my way they do it on E-scooters as well, do as they please all the time, shoot in front of cars at junctions and often race across pedestrian crossing, but what they can do about them I don`t know as there are more on the road than ever, never seen one in the dark with lights on and rider usually has dark clothes on so very hard to see

Two police officers in Ely Cardiff served with gross misconduct notices for following 2 lads on a reported £4000 e-bike who were sadly killed. The police were nowhere near the scene of the accident when they fell off. Not a dickie bird said so far about the illegality of riding 2 up on an illegal e-bike. I suppose that is the job of the coroner. The police these days don't seem to have the support of their commanders

It just means they are being investigated to find out exactly what has happened. They have not had diciplinarys yet.

Yes that is correct. Does little for police moral I would suggest. Just what do we pay the pay the police to do when they see wrong being committed sit in they car eating Haribo sweeties. I love that advert!

They're being investigated/dealt with under the protocols shared between the force managers and the Police Federation.

What's wrong with that?

Like everything else in the public sector lets do something to slow the whole process of efficiency and common sense down so nothing gets done.

So you're a dead efficient private sector employer.

There have been massively well publicised deaths involving your staff. There is, at its lowest, a possibility that SOPs were not followed. How do you deal with gathering evidence etc?

Things often take a long time in the public sector, mainly because of the public.

We have a litigious, blame seeking culture. Anything that goes wrong is the responsibility of someone (police, doctors, etc).

The public sector is risk averse. They understandably put in place procedures to minimise the risk of blame. For the police this includes body cams, statements, evidence collection, documentation, review processes etc etc etc.

All very commendable - no one should be arrested or convicted without sound reason. However, it takes time, drags resources away from more hands on policing, makes them disinclined to pursue minor offences as the effort required is disproportionate.

The days of Dixon of Dock Green when police were respected members of the community upholding the law are long gone. More recent Sweeney inspired policing with apparent authority to maim the crims as they saw fit has also long passed.

Allocating blame to the police for death or injury in the appropriate pursuit of wrongdoers is effective acceptance of illegal activity. If they are inhibited from giving chase because of the risks we should repeal the laws as they are never going to be enforced.

We do need to understand the reasons for the deaths of those on e-bikes and scooters. If they were riding illegally modified machines or foolishly I have limited sympathy.

Things often take a long time in the public sector, mainly because of the public.

We have a litigious, blame seeking culture. Anything that goes wrong is the responsibility of someone (police, doctors, etc).

The public sector is risk averse. They understandably put in place procedures to minimise the risk of blame. For the police this includes body cams, statements, evidence collection, documentation, review processes etc etc etc.

All very commendable - no one should be arrested or convicted without sound reason. However, it takes time, drags resources away from more hands on policing, makes them disinclined to pursue minor offences as the effort required is disproportionate.

The days of Dixon of Dock Green when police were respected members of the community upholding the law are long gone. More recent Sweeney inspired policing with apparent authority to maim the crims as they saw fit has also long passed.

Allocating blame to the police for death or injury in the appropriate pursuit of wrongdoers is effective acceptance of illegal activity. If they are inhibited from giving chase because of the risks we should repeal the laws as they are never going to be enforced.

We do need to understand the reasons for the deaths of those on e-bikes and scooters. If they were riding illegally modified machines or foolishly I have limited sympathy.

"""We do need to understand the reasons for the deaths of those on e-bikes and scooters. If they were riding illegally modified machines or foolishly I have limited sympathy."""

Regrettably someone in one of the lads family bought the e-bike costing a reported £4k. It does make one wonder how it is legal to sell these things. Only a couple of days after the accident the police issued a GPS showing their vehicle half a mile away and no longer following and no other vehicle was involved.

Why do the police have to make this enquiry sound so dramatic "" gross negligence" I do not think so. Nobody takes any responsibility these days for their actions it is always someone else's fault. This particular incident sparked a full scale riot and those in charge are adopting an approach so as not to inflame the situation I expect this will give the police officers doing a lawful job moths of sleepless nights before it is resolved

I believe the line usually trotted out when the boot is on the other foot is "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear".

In any case, I think we would all rather live in a country where things are thoroughly, even tediously, investigated rather than simply accepting that anyone who dies whilst committing a crime is wholly responsible.

Regrettably someone in one of the lads family bought the e-bike costing a reported £4k. It does make one wonder how it is legal to sell these things. Only a couple of days after the accident the police issued a GPS showing their vehicle half a mile away and no longer following and no other vehicle was involved.

There are differing reports as to what exactly happened and in what order. The police say the van was half a mile away at the time of impact but there are at least two pieces of camera footage showing the following the bike at first quite close quarters and later (?) from a distance.

Presumably the bike hit something solid. There are reports of a bus but others say no other vehicles; a wall or solid fence?

Why do the police have to make this enquiry sound so dramatic "" gross negligence" I do not think so. Nobody takes any responsibility these days for their actions it is always someone else's fault. This particular incident sparked a full scale riot and those in charge are adopting an approach so as not to inflame the situation I expect this will give the police officers doing a lawful job moths of sleepless nights before it is resolved

The phrase you used earlier was not gross negligence but gross misconduct. The former is around apportionment of blame etc in court proceedings either criminally such as for manslaughter or in a civil court when seeking compensation.

The latter relates to employment. An employee found to have committed gross misconduct will have done something so serious that the employee/employer relationship is irredeemably broken. In that circumstance the employee can be dismissed forthwith and without compensation. Gross misconduct might be theft, lying, falsifying records etc. If there is a suspicion of offending at that level then the employer will want a full investigation with all facts etc unearthed. While, in a Police context, the type and seriousness of offending been addressed is relevant even people in stolen vehicles or those, as here being driven illegally and perhaps recklessly have rights to life etc.

We cannot, as a society, simply right their deaths off as collateral damage for their own stupidity etc.

... Misconduct or negligence is only mincing words. ....

Not really - one is a sin of commission, the other a sin of omission. Think about it. Legally different.

NO we cannot, but what will change if society gives young people the tools to kill or injure themselves or worse still innocent members of that same society. Yes young people steal cars and motorbikes but they are not freely available to most.

Too much to deal with at once, but there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from going on eBay and marketplace and buying a car, motorbike or scooter from a private seller.