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Evolution not revolution - Steveieb

Looking around at how car designs have changed I can see the advantage of owning a Golf or Audi saloon way past their sell by date.

The designs haven’t changed much over the years . Take a Mk 5 Golf coming up to 19 years old and it still looks fresh.

Yet take a two year old Honda Civic and it bears no relationship to the latest model. Might as well be a new Chinese brand and the rapid model design change must upset many owners ?

Evolution not revolution - Chris M

"Yet take a two year old Honda Civic and it bears no relationship to the latest model."

Well that's no bad thing is it?

Evolution not revolution - Ian_SW

The latest generation Civic and its predecessor are more similar looking than they initially apear. They only seem different because with the previous generation Civic it was very difficult to see beyond the truly hideous nose and tail they put on it.

Interestingly the current model Civic is also surprisingly similarly shaped to the Honda Civic 5 door hatch back from the mid 1990s which was also a Rover 400. It isn't very similar in shape to the three generations of Civic in between though...

Evolution not revolution - John F

Rover was a classic example of repeated revolution resulting in a descent to failure. The SD1 disaster on wheels was unrecognisable from its P6 predecessor which in turn was unrecognisable from its successful P4. In stark contrast, BMW evolved successfully to become a major purveyor of saloons for the middle classes.

As an Audi owner I'm biased, but I think the sleek Audi A6 which appeared in 1994 still looks good after nearly 30yrs - and without badges would probably be recognisable as an Audi A6 throughout its 30 year evolution. I still have an article (called 'Three of a Wunderkind') comparing it with a BMW 5 series and a Mercedes E280 - much the same in size and performance; both of which look positively dowdy with their old fashioned 'three box' style.

Evolution not revolution - Andrew-T

As an Audi owner I'm biased, but I think the sleek Audi A6 which appeared in 1994 still looks good after nearly 30yrs - and without badges would probably be recognisable as an Audi A6 throughout its 30 year evolution.

One reason I still like to have a 205 around is exactly that. The crazy prices some people now (apparently) pay for a decent GTi confirm the 'iconic' status of the design, which is just 40 years old. Nearly all the bog-standard versions have now gone to the scrapyard in the sky, but I am gradually refurbishing a GR which I bought from the woman who got it new in 1991. It must be unique, with one owner, full set of servicing bills, and black paintwork (extra £120 when new).

Unfortunately the shell was too small to accommodate all the extras which designers started to add to cars after about 1990. The 306 which evolved from it suffered from the same problem a decade later

Evolution not revolution - badbusdriver

As an Audi owner I'm biased, but I think the sleek Audi A6 which appeared in 1994 still looks good after nearly 30yrs - and without badges would probably be recognisable as an Audi A6 throughout its 30 year evolution. I still have an article (called 'Three of a Wunderkind') comparing it with a BMW 5 series and a Mercedes E280 - much the same in size and performance; both of which look positively dowdy with their old fashioned 'three box' style.

The design of original A6 was itself simply an evolution of the seminal C3 100/200, a car that really was groundbreaking. It is only the small wheels which date it from about 12 years before the A6 appeared. Audi design since then has been very much evolutionary rather than revolutionary (except the original TT and A2).

The 1995 (W210) Merc E Class certainly wasn't their finest work, but the W124 is right up there. A beautifully proportioned, modern, yet subtle design (like the 190) and so much nicer than anything MB makes these days.

As for the 5 Series, I'm a sucker for the E12 and E28, even though they were not particularly innovative in their day. I just like the style of the older versions.

In general, I prefer revolutionary designs. But sadly, for the most part, they don't sell very well.

Evolution not revolution - Engineer Andy

Looking around at how car designs have changed I can see the advantage of owning a Golf or Audi saloon way past their sell by date.

The designs haven’t changed much over the years . Take a Mk 5 Golf coming up to 19 years old and it still looks fresh.

Yet take a two year old Honda Civic and it bears no relationship to the latest model. Might as well be a new Chinese brand and the rapid model design change must upset many owners ?

The problem with revolution (in every sense) is that those implementing it have to get it right for the very most part, otherwise it will end in (likely very expensive) failure.

Sometimes it works - the Ford Focus and Mondeo, changing from the old Escort and Sierra, the Honda Civic (2001-05) from its predecessor (especially with the inclusion of the legendary 3dr Type R), Nissan going to the Qashqai from the Almera when no-one else thought crossover SUVs would sell well, similarly Toyota with their 1st-gen hybrid Prius or the 'soft-roader' Rav4.

Sometimes it obviously doesn't work - the 'copy & paste' way IMHO Ford adopted both the small-capacity turbocharged petrol engine and dual clutch gearbox with seemingly not much R&D, the FIAT Mulitpla, Mercedes dropping their once legenary build quality to cut costs in the mid-late 90s.

Ironically, some makes - like Honda - have fallen significantly because they've been too cautious (the 2006- late 2010s period) and now are struggling to catch up to those makes that have been bold and pushed ahead, such as VAG and Hyundai/KIA. And the Chinese (like when they caught up to now dominate the PC component and mobile phone market) are starting to rise rapidly from low beginnings.

Just a few examples over the last 30 years.

Evolution not revolution - sammy1

BMW saloons have remained basically the same. Change the headlights and the readily recognised grill and you are there. The new supersize front grill is not a hit with me. I don't see how you change the fundamental shape of the mass produced car. Saloons coupe hatches estates and SUVs all have the the basic shape of their different marques.

Evolution not revolution - Steveieb

Thanks for your contribution Sammy, but I can’t see how your argument applies to the Honda Civic ?

Evolution not revolution - Adampr

I think, in some cases, it might just be luck. I've read before that one of the reasons modern cars look so essentially similar is that the need to meet safety rules can only result in X many shapes. I wonder if the Audi and VW looks, which were already quite 'blobby' by the 90s translate more easily into a modern design.

Right up until the current, new, model I think civics have followed an evolution since the first Joe 90 looking one in about 2007. The previous model was quite a boring box (brilliant car though) that wasn't as popular as it should have been. Before that, they were much pointier and, presumably, not pedestrian friendly.

With the exception of the 2007ish Civic, which caused an almighty splash, Honda's styling has been a disaster for years. In the 90s, they had a string of very handsome and stylish cars. Since then, probably the S2000 is the only one that's really looked good.

Evolution not revolution - Engineer Andy

I think, in some cases, it might just be luck. I've read before that one of the reasons modern cars look so essentially similar is that the need to meet safety rules can only result in X many shapes. I wonder if the Audi and VW looks, which were already quite 'blobby' by the 90s translate more easily into a modern design.

Right up until the current, new, model I think civics have followed an evolution since the first Joe 90 looking one in about 2007. The previous model was quite a boring box (brilliant car though) that wasn't as popular as it should have been. Before that, they were much pointier and, presumably, not pedestrian friendly.

With the exception of the 2007ish Civic, which caused an almighty splash, Honda's styling has been a disaster for years. In the 90s, they had a string of very handsome and stylish cars. Since then, probably the S2000 is the only one that's really looked good.

I think that whilst some of car design is obviously down to regulations and aerodynamic / engineering advances, which steer (pardon the pun) manufacturers in a particular direction, I think that a good deal is down to 'what is fashionable' - one make tries something new, and all it needs is someone in a position of significant influence to either push or stop others from following, and voila...

Ironically it isn't always because that look is appealing to the masses. Big front grilles (most of which serve little practical purpose these days) and headlamp clusters, for example, or the rear quarter arrangement between the rear seat windows and back window of hacthbacks, which if I recall started with the mk2 Almera 20 odd years ago.

As regards 'modern' (21st century) Hondas, the design of the 2001-05 5dr wasn't the best looker, but was very practical and made a geart use of its footprint as well as being reliable, but the 3dr, especially the Type R, was and still is (unmodded) a great looking car, similar to the 2013-18 Seat Leon SC (3dr) and equivalent Golf 3dr.

The main downside of the Civics of that era was the cheap-looking dash plastics (spray-on obvious fake metal). I personally wasn't a fan of the Civic (in all guises - I like that 'Joe 90' reference) that followed it, at least in the styling dept, the one after that was better externally but not inside (dash mainly). The more recent versions were the other way around - better interior, not so good exterior, plus, of course, issues with the ordinary turbocharged petrol engines.

I agree that the S2000 was certainly a car that stands the test of time - in all senses of the word. A far better dash usage of a digital display than those later Civics in my view.

Evolution not revolution - sammy1

Thanks for your contribution Sammy, but I can’t see how your argument applies to the Honda Civic ?

The civic has grown in size and with the full hatchback reminds me of a Skoda Octavia. Style is in the eye of the beholder and with mine and other comments on far eastern cars my money goes to the Skoda.. I have driven the latest Octavia Challenge and it is a very nice piece of kit. Again as I said before the basic shape has been around since the hatch was first dreamed about sort of half an estate that you could get a washing machine in