What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Simpler times - SLO76

Driving around in SWMBO’s Honda HRV today, I found myself being irritated by the constant bleeping from the utterly unnecessary lane departure system. Every time it sensed a line in the road (often where none existed) it bleeps an annoying warning at me, must’ve done it a dozen times or so on our short journey. The also completely unnecessary electronic parking brake also works counterintuitively and I find it takes far longer to operate the thing than a simple conventional handbrake.

The stereo and ventilation controls are unnecessary complex for a simpleton like me too. I find that despite liking the way the car drives and the fact that it’s a very well packaged small family car I wish it didn’t have all the pointless gadgets that do absolutely nothing for the driver appeal or long term reliability.

Anyone have a spare £5,000 to buy me this as a comfort blanket against today’s over-complexity?

tinyurl.com/3hjejd8v

[link shortened - mod]

Edited by Xileno on 22/06/2022 at 08:13

Simpler times - Adampr

I tend to agree on the gadgets. I think the only benefit of an electronic handbrake is having a slightly bigger unused bin in the centre console. When I test drove a car yesterday, the dealer said "do you know what lane keep assist is?" and I said "yes, where's the off switch?"

Simpler times - Adampr

Mind you, I learned in a mk 2 cav and I don't miss the understeer.

Simpler times - paul 1963

Fairly sure you can permanently disable the lane assist, you can on my car although I haven't as I don't find it that intrusive tbh. I agree about epb, my van has one and although I'm used to it now it's not as nice to use a old fashioned hand brake, stereo controls just need learning.

Surprised you never picked up on those minor irritations during your pre sale test drive?

Simpler times - _

On the Korando, to disable the lane keep assist and a lot of the other bits is in the dashboard menu.

Cannot permanently diable stopstart however.

Thevenga that I just bought as a runaround for youngrovergirl is very simple, enjoy driving it too,

Simpler times - Ethan Edwards

Bongs, dings, etc. Yes they've multiplied. On mine I've learnt how to disable lane departure temporarily only I'm afraid But it wasn't for audio reasons but to stop disconcerting "grabbing of the steering wheel" at unpredictable times.

No most noises relate to other cars , walls etc proximity. A different tone for front to back. And safety cameras, av speed cameras road works etc. Yes it's a noisy place with a great variety of tone. I let my Dwight Yoakam songs drown it.

Edited by Ethan Edwards on 20/06/2022 at 08:19

Simpler times - thunderbird

The also completely unnecessary electronic parking brake also works counterintuitively and I find it takes far longer to operate the thing than a simple conventional handbrake.

The availability of an EPB was a 100% essential feature when we bought our last car which resulted in buying the Octavia. With the wife's worsening arthritis engaging the manual handbrake was becoming ever more difficult (as was changing gear to a lesser extent).

But why is operating one difficult? The button in the Avensis we tried many years ago was in a dreadful location which was made worse by a totally useless salesman (it put us off EPB's for at least 10 years) but when we drove the Corolla a couple of years ago (I downloaded the manual before the drive) it was simple, no issue at all.

Its exactly the same in the Octavia.I set it to "auto" when we collected the car and that is where its been set ever since (except for a couple of occasions when we were parking). You come to a stop and it engages, you pull away and it releases, totally logical and since you have to do nothing at all how could it possibly be more difficult than a conventional handbrake. To temporarily disable it it you press a switch, not that difficult, to enable it you use the same switch.

I suggest you read the manual. But I suppose some bright spark at Honda could have cocked up totally.

Simpler times - Theophilus

Oh dear SLO, how is it that a young man like you finds it so difficult to adjust to modern times! It reminds me of my sister who has just had her phone land-line cut off by Virgin because she doesn't have fibre internet :-(

My wife and I (both in our 70s) have no difficulty at all in using the EPB in our Hondas - it's just a matter of having the confidence to drive off when it has engaged knowing that it will automatically release immediately on depressing the accelerator. Nothing needs to be touched or adjusted. I confess to some hesitation in trusting it when parking on a steep incline - I would far rather pull on the handbrake and leave the car in gear, but having said that its never let us down.

Lane control is a different matter - for some reason Honda seem to have implemented this differently in my wife's Jazz from my CRV. In the CRV it is off by default, and needs to be activated if (as very rarely) I opt ot do so ... on the other hand it is on by default in the Jazz (probably same as the HRV) and I have not discovered any way of permanently disabling it, and it is indeed quite intrusive when driving about town.

Simpler times - Andrew-T

Oh dear SLO, how is it that a young man like you finds it so difficult to adjust to modern times!

I don't think it is the ability to 'adjust to modern times', more the lack of an important reason to do so. I personally would trust an electronic brake less than a good old-fashioned, tried and tested, mechanical parking brake, which I understand and might possibly fix if it failed. Unless someone can convince me that an EPB has worthwhile advantages, or is more reliable, of course.

Simpler times - Theophilus

Sorry - can't find any way to delete a duplicate post!

Edited by Theophilus on 20/06/2022 at 09:39

Simpler times - Falkirk Bairn

In the 1980s early 90s I had 5 Cavaliers of different specs and overall they were fine - did a job.

However the cars broke down - needed towing/not fixed 1st time, sunroof leaked, the Vx dealers were appalling.

Final straw - Cavalier with 80K and coming up for 3 years needed replaced, car order sheet to be filled out. Car broke down on my driveway in the last week of July - local (useless) Vx dealer phoned to get the car picked up /fixed - Sorry we a too busy with August 1st new car regs - we will pick the car up in 7/8 days time.

In a protest ordered a Peugeot - bad move - back window leaked from day 1 despite being resealed/replaced a few times - 2 years & 60K it was knackered.

Simpler times - SLO76
“ Fairly sure you can permanently disable the lane assist”

You can, but I like to moan. Not sure if it’s a permanent thing or a load of button pressing and menu hunting every time you drive it however.
Simpler times - Bolt

I tend to agree on the gadgets. I think the only benefit of an electronic handbrake is having a slightly bigger unused bin in the centre console. When I test drove a car yesterday, the dealer said "do you know what lane keep assist is?" and I said "yes, where's the off switch?"

Cuts down on weight as well as the operating cables, but is automatic ie comes on on its own and releases on its own- just on release of clutch or accelerator press, iirc if operated while driving you have to reset by ignition off then restarting so nothing hard to it, just some don`t like gadgets

best thing is if you have week hands you don`t have to pull a lever or release one as mentioned, so are handy for those who can`t or find it difficult to use !

iirc the LKA can be shut off on steering wheel through dash display

Simpler times - Adampr

Lane Keep is different in different cars. In my Vauxhall, there's a switch that turns it off and keeps it off, the Kia I drove the other day had a switch that turned it off but you had to do it every time you start. In some, they hide it under menus and touchscreens. It's not the hardest thing in the world, but surely everyone turns it off immediately as it's a nuisance at best and liability most of the time.

Simpler times - Andrew-T

<< Cuts down on weight as well as the operating cables ... >>

If makers seriously need to cut down on weight, they shouldn't have loaded so many gizmos on board, which many drivers now believe they can't manage without !

Simpler times - JonestHon

SLO, can you please comment how different is the EPB in the HRV to yours's Avensis T27?

I agree that every time I get a hired car I aspire to get back into my IS250 as soon as poss.

The touch screens IMHO should not be anywhere near a car interior, I mean there are those who talk about getting an NCAP style test for in-car devices! this is nuts.

Bongs and dings? they have their space in certain situations, an off button is a must.

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-develo...e

Simpler times - Terry W

I find the stop/start on my Peugeot 308 annoying but easily disabled by the press of an accessible button. No lane departure but would probably want to disable that as well if fitted.

I thoroughly approve most off the tech now fitted to run-of-the-mill motors mostly absent or costly in the 1990s - EPB, 8 speed auto, air con, lighting, sat nav, central locking, ICE etc.

But the overwhelming benefit is reliability, and quality. A 10 year old car today drives better than a 2 year old 30 years ago - more reliable, faster, economical, safer, etc etc.

Basic fun car is best kept for the weekends - day to day in modern traffic - tech every time.

Simpler times - SLO76
“ SLO, can you please comment how different is the EPB in the HRV to yours's Avensis T27?”

It’s just the opposite way round. The Toyota it’s pull to release and push to engage, the Honda is the opposite and I find the Toyota’s button is in a better location. It also disengages more quickly in auto mode. It’s not really a big gripe, I just hate unnecessary gadgets.
Simpler times - Deryck

Anyone have a spare £5,000 to buy me this as a comfort blanket against today’s over-complexity?

tinyurl.com/3hjejd8v

I have often said I would like to go back to my old Mk3 Cavalier. I had the 91 "J" 1.6 with carb and managed toget 600 miles out of a tank of fuel on a regular basis - would be very useful with the current fuel prices. It never broke down, neither did the Vectra B I had after that, but the Insignia was by far the worst Vauxhall. Thus I thought I would try a Ford Mondeo. I am still trying to calm down when I get a bong as it was usually expensive on the Insignia

The Mondeo has lots of toys - some useful, some not so. The climate controls are a pain as it is mostly via touchscreen that doesn't like my fingers. I sometimes use the voice control in desperation.


EPB is fine as I have got used to it after the Insignia.

LKA is almost always off, stop start is usually off.

Park assist is nice if I am being lazy but the sensors do alert me to things being close to the side of the car which is useful in tight spaces even if not using the assist feature

High beam assist is OK-ish. I can live without it but have enabled it in the menu just because it is there

[link shortened - mod]

Edited by Xileno on 22/06/2022 at 08:14

Simpler times - elekie&a/c doctor
Being in the driving seat of a modern car is like being the pilot of an Airbus . Going through a check list of what to turn on and off before you start your journey. Haven’t had to set the flaps on my car , yet .
Simpler times - JonestHon
Being in the driving seat of a modern car is like being the pilot of an Airbus . Going through a check list of what to turn on and off before you start your journey. Haven’t had to set the flaps on my car , yet .

On Diesel Bemmers the swirl flaps cancel themselves without the driver assistance.

Simpler times - sammy1

"""High beam assist is OK-ish. I can live without it but have enabled it in the menu just because it is there"""

This is one of the best improvements, better than having to stamp on a button on the floor!. Also a fan of EPB nothing worse than a parking brake that was on its last notch and almost vertical.

Simpler times - Metropolis.
LOL!!
Simpler times - SLO76
Being in the driving seat of a modern car is like being the pilot of an Airbus . Going through a check list of what to turn on and off before you start your journey. Haven’t had to set the flaps on my car , yet .

That’s how I feel. I just want the basics of driving, not six different touch screen menus to turn the sodding radio on or a daft electronic parking brake I know is a costly looming liability as the car ages.
Simpler times - Xileno

Brother had one of the last Cavaliers before the Vectra took over. I think it was the 2.0. It went well and was a good comfortable motorway cruiser. I can't remember any problems, certainly nothing significant. In the end rust killed it, the rear arches got scabby and it failed almost every MOT as it aged and needed welding.

Simpler times - Zippy123

I wonder what the insurance companies will think if you have an accident because you switched off one of the safety features.

Imagine trying to claim for crossing a lane and hitting another car because you drifted over without realising and LKA could have saved you!

Whilst the 3rd party claim will be paid the insurance company may not pay your car's repair bills and may try to claim the 3rd party's bills from you as well?

Simpler times - RT

I wonder what the insurance companies will think if you have an accident because you switched off one of the safety features.

Imagine trying to claim for crossing a lane and hitting another car because you drifted over without realising and LKA could have saved you!

Whilst the 3rd party claim will be paid the insurance company may not pay your car's repair bills and may try to claim the 3rd party's bills from you as well?

Not unless it's a written condition in the insurance contract.

Simpler times - Zippy123

I wonder what the insurance companies will think if you have an accident because you switched off one of the safety features.

Imagine trying to claim for crossing a lane and hitting another car because you drifted over without realising and LKA could have saved you!

Whilst the 3rd party claim will be paid the insurance company may not pay your car's repair bills and may try to claim the 3rd party's bills from you as well?

Not unless it's a written condition in the insurance contract.

I'm not sure.

If the you disabled or downgraded your brakes you would be in trouble and that's not a specific term in your policy.

Simpler times - Adampr

That would be a modification, not the press of a button.

Simpler times - Chris M

Most accidents are caused by driver error and switching off a safety feature is just another error.

Simpler times - galileo

Most accidents are caused by driver error and switching off a safety feature is just another error.

Sometimes LKA is not a safety feature, but is itself a hazard.

Simpler times - Ian_SW

Most accidents are caused by driver error and switching off a safety feature is just another error.

Sometimes LKA is not a safety feature, but is itself a hazard.

The manual for my car lists a whole load of situations when LKA must be switched off. These include when it's raining, temperature is below freezing, the white lines are difficult to see, there are roadworks, the car is being driven on any road other than "highway or freeway" (presumably means trunk road or motorway), when the car is towing a trailer.

If the LKA was switched on in any of those situations and I were to have a crash, I could see insurance companies and police considering that in a similar way to using cruise control in unsuitable conditions.

That list of times when LKA must not be used accounts for about 75% of the time when I'm driving. I have tried using it in the remaining 25% of situations, such as in a dry motorway and it does work correctly, making the car feel as though it's driving in shallow ruts which keep it in the centre of the lane.

Fortunately on my car, the system remains in the state it was last in rather than defaulting to "On" every time I start the car, so reality I rarely use it. However, for a system which looks like (by the manufacturers own instruction) it should be switched off more often than it is on, having this default to on every time the car is started seems a bad idea.

Simpler times - RichT54

I have read several times that manufacturers need to include gadgets such as a Lane Keeping Assist System in order to get a good NCAP rating.

How does the evaluation actually work? Is all that happens is the manufacturer saying "Oh yeah, we've got one of them", box ticked and rating score goes up, or do they have to demonstrate that their system actually meets certain criteria?

Simpler times - Adampr

It's a load of rubbish. They put it on there to get NCAP points and couldn't care less if it actually works. If you leave it off, like Dacia have done on the Jogger, the motoring press get all up in arms about how a car's not "safe" when, in fact, a manufacturer has been brave enough to remove something that people pay for but never use.

Simpler times - SLO76

“ I have often said I would like to go back to my old Mk3 Cavalier. I had the 91 "J" 1.6 with carb and managed toget 600 miles out of a tank of fuel on a regular basis - would be very useful with the current fuel prices. It never broke down”


I flogged loads of em in the 90’s, they were our real bread and butter and rarely did they ever go wrong. I loved the simplicity and the decent running costs. The engines were excellent, even the 1.4 petrol could keep pace with traffic flow on the motorway. The best motors were the sweet spinning and nicely geared 1.6 petrol, the torquey 2.0 petrols and the indestructible Isuzu 1.7 turbo diesels that were much loved by the taxi trade. The 8v petrol units were all non-interference which meant that a snapped timing belt caused no damage, which was a big bonus when belt failure was a common issue in the 80’s and 90’s. The 2.0i GL was all the car you needed.

Simpler times - Steveieb

According to Clarkson , when he gets a visit from the men in the ministry to tell him what he’s allowed and not allowed to do on his Diddly Squat farm they always arrive in Vauxhalls !

So maybe it’s an ex ministry car SLO !

Simpler times - Crickleymal

The company I worked for between 1982 and 85 changed from Cortinas to FWD Cavaliers as company cars. My boss sent me down to get a computer monitor out of his car. "It's a red Cavalier" he told me. The key had the notches on the side of the key rather than on the edge as normal. There were 3 red Cavaliers in the car park. I opened all three before I found the monitor.

The next company had a 1.6 Cavalier as the pool car. Boy did that shift. Oddly it had a 5 speed gearbox at a time when they were only supposed to be 4 speed boxes. It's replacement a year later was nowhere near as fast.

Simpler times - bazza

Those mk 1 cavaliers were fantastic! Our company had a pool car 1.6 and we used to thrash the living daylights out of it, we were young and foolish. I remember seeing 100 mph in 3rd gear with the rev counter so far into the red it was scary! What a wonderful free revving engine. I also remember seeing 125mph indicated on an empty motorway in a 1.8CD, that was a nice car. Yes, that was the pinnacle of Opel Vauxhall, we had several Astra's in the late 80s and 90s , all great to drive and I would have one now if they still made those models!

Simpler times - Heidfirst

The 8v petrol units were all non-interference which meant that a snapped timing belt caused no damage, which was a big bonus when belt failure was a common issue in the 80’s and 90’s.

I had personal experience of this.

Also, a Cavalier was the only car that I have ever had to replace a clutch on at ~60k (mostly dual carriage/motorway so not hard on a clutch).

Simpler times - Chris M

"Also, a Cavalier was the only car that I have ever had to replace a clutch on at ~60k (mostly dual carriage/motorway so not hard on a clutch)."

A job that could be carried out without removing the gearbox.

Simpler times - Xileno

I've shortened the link to the advert in a couple of posts as it seems to be messing up the page width on my laptop. Probably as I've not blocked any of the ads!

Simpler times - Andrew-T

I've shortened the link to the advert in a couple of posts as it seems to be messing up the page width on my laptop. Probably as I've not blocked any of the ads!

I've suffered this problem on my desktop for the last couple of days (been away for a while) but haven't seen it today. The culprit seemed to be the 'internal' references to other HJ items ?

Simpler times - Sparrow

I suggest you look at your insurance terms and conditions. I'm in the process of renewing mine and have several quotes I'm considering. One says that all driver aids must be fully working. I'm not sure that would permit you to switch them off. Another says that I must make sure I have the manufacturer's latest safety affecting software version. Gosh. How do I comply with that? Does that mean I have to take it regularly to the dealer just to make sure I have the latest?

Watch out, it's not just the cars that are getting over complicated.

Simpler times - Andrew-T

I suggest you look at your insurance terms and conditions. I'm in the process of renewing mine and have several quotes I'm considering. One says that all driver aids must be fully working. I'm not sure that would permit you to switch them off. .

Surely the cover provided will apply to any car which has not had its maker's spec altered ? If the owner is able to make adjustments via the menu provided, that should be covered ?

Simpler times - primus 1

I like the safety kit on my car, stop start, lane keep, cross traffic and blind spot, to name but a few that my car has, I never turn any of them off, adaptive cruise is brilliant makes long trips a breeze, I like the auto tailgate, and mine even parks itself, ok, I’ve only used that feature twice, but if you had neck or back problems,then it could be useful, bring on the gadgets I say, I even wouldn’t mind a button for the handbrake instead of a lever.

Simpler times - Bolt

Surely the cover provided will apply to any car which has not had its maker's spec altered

driver aids can be fully working when switched off as the aid still works, just not visible to the driver, I doubt they can be turned off fully as the computers still need to know whats going on around them