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Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
I managed to upset my good neighbour!

Her trusty Toyota Aygo needed too much welding work to pass the MOT (the joys of living facing the sea) she sold it to the garage for scrap at 17 years of age and a nice 172000 miles.

Inevitably the search for a new car began with a slightly bigger boot and I commented why not get a new Sandero with a warranty and no MOT to worry bout for 3 years.
So new cars became the focus,

Of she went to the local Dacia dealer, tried it, liked it, sat down to order,

The price with a non white colour and a spare wheel, £14490!!!!

I had to apologise, my recent memory had them advertised from £10,495.

No longer the bargain car it set out to be.

I did a bit of digging -

Dacia now only sell the Sandero in top spec Comfort (despite the middle spec being the most popular according to the dealer)
Dacia now only sell the Sandero with the turbo charged engine not the naturally aspiring 1.0
A non white colour is a £595 option
A spare wheel has doubled in price to £300

What a shame the Sandero is no longer a bargain. I understand their are other factors at play such as inflation, shortages, energy costs for transport, etc but I can’t help feel this will cost them some buys as they inevitably move into the crowded middle market.

One thing I still don’t understand, if semi conductor issues still remain why not sell a bargain basement basic version of the vehicles?

Anyways she travelled to the nearest MG dealer on Friday and has ordered a MG3 excite in the black colour option she wanted brand new in stock for £12495 and they are throwing in a space saver,
The warranty was the big selling point as was the immediate availability of the car.
She did comment test driving the MG3 reminded her of her old Corolla, I’m not surprised with that 1.5 naturally aspiring engine and 5 speed gear box.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 21/05/2022 at 11:23

Sandero no longer a bargain? - SLO76
Used to like Dacia, but sadly they’re gotten greedy and prices are now too high. A good used option makes far far more sense at nearly £15,000 and depreciation will be far lower too. My Honda HRV cost £14,500 and it’s a vastly better car than a Sandero plus it’ll be worth a lot more in three years. That it’s more economical only rubs salt in.

Edited by SLO76 on 21/05/2022 at 12:29

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Engineer Andy
Used to like Dacia, but sadly they’re gotten greedy and prices are now too high. A good used option makes far far more sense at nearly £15,000 and depreciation will be far lower too. My Honda HRV cost £14,500 and it’s a vastly better car than a Sandero plus it’ll be worth a lot more in three years. That it’s more economical only rubs salt in.

Prices at the moment are ridiculous - but especially for second hand cars. I've seen many non-luxury brand, mid-spec cars going for 50% off the original list price at 7 years old!!!

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Brit_in_Germany

The EU fines the manufacturer €95 for every g of CO2 above the limit. With the limit at around 100g, this would mean a €2,000 fine for the Sandero. Presumably the UK has a similar policy.

edit: it seems the same rules apply.

obr.uk/box/new-car-emission-fines/#:~:text=These%2...s).

Edited by Brit_in_Germany on 21/05/2022 at 13:03

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Terry W

If these rules are being applied, Dacia have a problem.

AFAIK all of their cars are ICE with no hybrid or electric to reduce emissions across the range. The could pool sales with Renault to reduce fines, but Renault may suffer as a result.

Manufacturers with hybrid vehicles can pool the fleet to reduce overall emissions. Their strategy may be to promote lower emission small cars using price as an inducement, making Dacia seem relatively expensive.

Also worth noting that the original USP of Dacia was simple, basic and cheap. Remove the simple and basic and they can no longer be made cheaply!

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Brit_in_Germany

VW had a three figure million fine for being 0.5g above the limit for their fleet.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - SLO76

VW had a three figure million fine for being 0.5g above the limit for their fleet.

VW didn’t pay it, the ordinary working people who buy their cars did. It’s another tax on us.
Sandero no longer a bargain? - Engineer Andy

VW had a three figure million fine for being 0.5g above the limit for their fleet.

VW didn’t pay it, the ordinary working people who buy their cars did. It’s another tax on us.

Yep. The usual politican guff where the Plebs foot the bill, not those rich people in charge of the firms. And I guarantee that the vast majority of the money 'raised' by said 'fine' won't be of much (if any) benefit to said Plebs either.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - barney100

Ain’t that the truth. Where does this fine money go anyway?

Sandero no longer a bargain? - focussed

If these rules are being applied, Dacia have a problem.

AFAIK all of their cars are ICE with no hybrid or electric to reduce emissions across the range. The could pool sales with Renault to reduce fines, but Renault may suffer as a result.

Manufacturers with hybrid vehicles can pool the fleet to reduce overall emissions. Their strategy may be to promote lower emission small cars using price as an inducement, making Dacia seem relatively expensive.

Also worth noting that the original USP of Dacia was simple, basic and cheap. Remove the simple and basic and they can no longer be made cheaply!

Au contraire!

  • Available across continental Europe, the Dacia Spring Electric offers 140-mile range (WLTP)
  • The Dacia Spring Electric will be the most affordable electric vehicle in Europe, with car sharing and Cargo versions available
  • There are no plans for the Dacia Spring Electric to be sold in the UK
  • www.dacia.fr/achat-vehicules-neufs?model.code=S1E
Sandero no longer a bargain? - Xileno

Makes the Jogger even more of a bargain. I think when the first Sandero came out it was £5995 for the poverty spec version.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - focussed

Makes the Jogger even more of a bargain. I think when the first Sandero came out it was £5995 for the poverty spec version.

Was that the one that didn't even have a heater?

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
It had a heater

It didn’t have a stereo
Sandero no longer a bargain? - Engineer Andy
It had a heater It didn’t have a stereo

I remember something similar back in 1998 when I bought my old Micra. I looked at a new poverty spec 1L Suzuki Alto which the nearest dealership (in the Tottenham area of London - rather difficult for servicing for me in Herts) was flogging for all of £5K.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Brit_in_Germany

BEVs seem to be vital for manufacturers with inefficient engines in their product range. Each one sold is effectively worth €10k against the fleet fines. Tesla are getting paid to enter into "partnerships" with some makers to lower their averages. A crazy world.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Heidfirst

BEVs seem to be vital for manufacturers with inefficient engines in their product range. Each one sold is effectively worth €10k against the fleet fines. Tesla are getting paid to enter into "partnerships" with some makers to lower their averages.

You beat me to it - it's a very large chunk (all?) of Tesla's profits.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - barney100

Dacia no longer is the bargain buy which made the brand so popular.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - focussed

Dacia no longer is the bargain buy which made the brand so popular.

The sales figures for Dacia France indicate that Dacia are top of the sales charts for sales to private owners in France.

I think the figure was something like 100, 000 + units for year ending 2021.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Xileno

With Dacia moving their prices north, who will pick up the 'cheap and cheerful' baton now? The Chinese? I certainly wouldn't pay £15k for a Sandero, I would find the extra for the Jogger or buy something used instead.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - pd

With a lot of manufacturers finding they can make more money by selling less cars I do wonder what the immediate future for the cheaper end is.

It has always been hard to make a good return on budget cars.

Ford and Mercedes are two who have recently said they are looking to get out of the lower end. PSA/Stellantis have got out of the city car market.

The only flaw in this is not everyone wants a £50k car.......so there will be a gap there for someone if they can make the sums add up.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - badbusdriver

Ford and Mercedes are two who have recently said they are looking to get out of the lower end. PSA/Stellantis have got out of the city car market.

Mercedes have never been in that market.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - pd

Mercedes haven't been in the budget market but they are apparently looking at dropping the A, B class etc and even some of the lowlier models of the others and becoming a purely "luxury" brand rather than a mix of volume + luxury.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Rerepo

With a lot of manufacturers finding they can make more money by selling less cars I do wonder what the immediate future for the cheaper end is.

It has always been hard to make a good return on budget cars.

Ford and Mercedes are two who have recently said they are looking to get out of the lower end. PSA/Stellantis have got out of the city car market.

The only flaw in this is not everyone wants a £50k car.......so there will be a gap there for someone if they can make the sums add up.

Nice gap for the Chinese to move into.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - alan1302

With a lot of manufacturers finding they can make more money by selling less cars I do wonder what the immediate future for the cheaper end is.

It has always been hard to make a good return on budget cars.

Ford and Mercedes are two who have recently said they are looking to get out of the lower end. PSA/Stellantis have got out of the city car market.

The only flaw in this is not everyone wants a £50k car.......so there will be a gap there for someone if they can make the sums add up.

Nice gap for the Chinese to move into.

Certainly is - although with all the safety and emissions regulations I expect it's a lot more difficult than it once was.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Ethan Edwards

Stellantis have got out of the city car market have they,? Fiat 500e 24kw/h battery about 115miles range or 90 in real life. Isn't that a city car? Made by Stellantis? I have the 42kw/h big battery version but it's very much still a city car.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - pd

Stellantis have got out of the city car market have they,? Fiat 500e 24kw/h battery about 115miles range or 90 in real life. Isn't that a city car? Made by Stellantis? I have the 42kw/h big battery version but it's very much still a city car.

They've got our of their JV with Toyota and Peugeot and Citroen equivalents.

Will be interesting to see what if anything replaces the Panda.

As for the 500e I'll grant you it's a city car but not a budget one. It costs a b***** fortune for what it is.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Engineer Andy

With a lot of manufacturers finding they can make more money by selling less cars I do wonder what the immediate future for the cheaper end is.

It has always been hard to make a good return on budget cars.

Ford and Mercedes are two who have recently said they are looking to get out of the lower end. PSA/Stellantis have got out of the city car market.

The only flaw in this is not everyone wants a £50k car.......so there will be a gap there for someone if they can make the sums add up.

The main reason why many makes are either pulling out of the cheaper 'base model' or 'city car' end of the market or switching the latter to solely EV is because governments are forcing their hands by ever more stringent environmental and especially safety regs, meaning (especially the latter) they ALL, expensive and cheapo, have to have lots of extra gizmos that have nothing to do with how the car drives but which will up the cost of producing them.

At some point, they either cannot make a profit on them at the lower price or sell enough at a price that could turn a profit to justify making them - low numbers of sales are only for expensive cars.

I somehow doubt if the powers that be are that naive that they don't realise the damage to social mobility and the bank balances of the Plebs whilst further increasing the wealth and power of those whispering in the ears of the law-makers.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Big John

I still think the Sandero comfort lpg is still a lot of car for the money especially with the bonkers used car prices at the moment:-

8" Media Display, Bluetooth, smartphone replication, steering wheel controls, DAB, Rear Camera, Cruise control & speed limiter, Rear parking sensors, Height Adjustable Front Seat with Arm Rest, Split Folding Rear Seat, Boot Light, Leather steering wheel, Electric rear windows, Auto Lights and Wipers, Manual Air Conditioning, Anti-Intruder Automatic Door Locking, Keyless Entry, Electric Adjusting and Defrosting Side Mirrors, LED Headlamp, Front fog lights

That's a lot for £13.5k

I suspect the bobby basic has been dropped as so many technologies are now compulsory with any new car (automatic braking etc) meaning cars are already fitted with tech needed for higher spec toys such as cruise/ speed limiter etc. There is a huge amount of testing required for any model of car as well (WLTP, Safety etc. ) so manufacturers have been reducing the number of models available - that's one of the reasons 3dr models have all but vanished on many car ranges.

I was somewhat impressed when I sat in a Sandero Comfort a few weeks ago - at some point I might even test drive one. Not in any hurry as Mrs BJ's Panda still in surprisingly good nick.

Edited by Big John on 23/05/2022 at 22:33

Sandero no longer a bargain? - badbusdriver

I suspect the bobby basic has been dropped as so many technologies are now compulsory with any new car (automatic braking etc) meaning cars are already fitted with tech needed for higher spec toys such as cruise/ speed limiter etc.

The basic version was dropped because hardly anyone bought it. That was the case with the previous model too, only a tiny fraction of those sold was the basic one with the headline grabbing price.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Terry W

Selling cars based upon low price means (a) low costs, and (b) simple, cheap, basic design.

There is a constant tension between reducing cost, adding functionality and gizmos, competitors driving down prices to win market share.

The best place to be in most businesses is as innovator/technical leader, or dominant brand/image leader.

ICE is now a dying technology due to regulation. EV is the future (like it or not).

So manufacturers with limited funds to invest in new models and markets will start dumping old, low tech on which future profits are limited.

Over the coming 5 years there will be ever lower prices on high specification ICE to shift metal, exploiting generally old designs and time served tooling. There is no point in offering a low price, low profit, low spec car!

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
Update

They have reintroduced the essential mid spec Sandero trim in the UK

The price is higher, it’s now £12,595 in the solid paint colour

Now only comes with the turbo charged 0.9 litre engine with the 5 speed manual box

The next trim up called expression is £13595 (you do get a lot more kit) and can be had in both the manual or automatic gearbox with the 0.9 turbo engine
Sandero no longer a bargain? - dan86
Update They have reintroduced the essential mid spec Sandero trim in the UK The price is higher, it’s now £12,595 in the solid paint colour Now only comes with the turbo charged 0.9 litre engine with the 5 speed manual box The next trim up called expression is £13595 (you do get a lot more kit) and can be had in both the manual or automatic gearbox with the 0.9 turbo engine

The 0.9 has been replaced with the 1.0 turbo engine AFAIK

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
Thank you for clarifying
Sandero no longer a bargain? - _
The Sandero is still a "reasonably priced" car.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Blackcat na

It has perfectly acceptable performance for the class, with a decent amount of punch from low engine speeds. It's not the swiftest to reach motorway pace, but it'll sit there all day long without fuss once you're up there. For the same money, there's the TCe 100 Bi-Fuel.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - nlpnlp

Citroen are now offering a 1.2 petrol C3 OTR £12,995 Citroën Store | Vehicle offers Citroën Store C3 PureTech 83 S&S (citroen.co.uk) .

Pretty basic spec - DAB radio, electric front windows, rear reversing lights (!), etc.

If you can live without the bells and whistles, then you are getting a new, mainstream manufacturer then it seems like a decent deal.

Seems a slightly strange move from Citroen as there is going to be little money to be made and they have for the last few years been trying to push their more upmarket DS brand and higher spec own range.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Heidfirst

it's to get people that previously would have bought a C1 at least into the showroom.

As it is an in production model it's cheap for them to make, the risk is that some people who might have bought a higher trim say actually I don't need/want all the toys & buy this instead.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - catsdad

It’s an online order only offer so it’s not aimed at showroom sales. The “ basic” spec is actually pretty good. Sure it’s not got loads of bells and whistles but it has DAB, aircon, electric mirrors and other useful features.The engine is low powered though but OK in its market segment

What puzzles me is that the CO2 is well above 95g. Won’t this cost Citroen a fortune in fleet fines? Or did that limit get quietly shelved?

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
Dacia waiting times is now up to 6 months, if you order today as per dealers comments ‘you may have it in time for the January sales’.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - nlpnlp

Perhaps as it is fairly modest in the bells and whistles it does not need all the microchips that better specified cars do, so it is a way for Citroen to sell metal until they can get a supply of the precious semiconductor stuff.

Ii did get a Citroen C3 in 2007 - a 1.6 diesel and put 170,000 miles on it in 6 years. Eventually I got fed up of the poor main dealers, plastic oil dipsticks that broke, poor suspension, etc, etc. I promised myself that I would never buy a Citroen again. I had a Toyota after that that I took to 180,000 miles.

Cheap as Dacia and Citroen may be, I would rather go for a better more durable make, even if that means buying second hand.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
I’m not sure why, but the dealer tells me Dacia UK have blamed the Ukraine war as the reason why the waiting times have increased from 4 to 6 months
Why that affects Sanderos built in Morocco I have no idea?

Edited by daveyK_UK on 22/08/2022 at 22:30

Sandero no longer a bargain? - alan1302
I’m not sure why, but the dealer tells me Dacia UK have blamed the Ukraine war as the reason why the waiting times have increased from 4 to 6 months Why that affects Sanderos built in Morocco I have no idea?

A lot of parts come from Ukraine.

Sandero no longer a bargain? - Moodyman
I like the idea of Dacia, Renault’s version of early VW made Skodas. But…unlike early Skodas I get the impression Dacia are an inferior product. Seen too many with rusty rims and wheel arches. This shouldn’t happen on 6/7 year old cars.

I have a 30 year old Corolla which has less rust than some of the early Sanderos and Dusters.

Edited by Moodyman on 23/08/2022 at 05:47

Sandero no longer a bargain? - daveyK_UK
I haven’t seen any rusty ones, don’t see many rusty cars these days unless they are 15 years old + or it’s a Ford Transit van

Sandero no longer a bargain? - badbusdriver
I haven’t seen any rusty ones, don’t see many rusty cars these days unless they are 15 years old + or it’s a Ford Transit van

I also have not seen lots of rusty ones. Dacia's are very popular where I live, which also happens to be a Scottish town on the coast. So if there was a problem with Dacia's rusting, I think i'd notice!.

There was a problem with with rust under the boot on early Dacia's (2012-2013ish), but AFAIK that was dealt with within a year two.

Chances are if you see a car under 10 years old with noticeable rust, it will be a result of having poor quality body repairs following a prang and not due to lack of rust protection from the factory.