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Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor

I treated my car to an oil change today. I've been doing them myself for around 5 years now....

Today, I treated the car to a Liqui Moly Molygen (I'd never heard of them before) using their Engine Flush beforehand.

I'm pretty convinced the car, before draining everything, including their Engine Flush, that was 4.3litres worth of old oil in the engine....

Yet, when I came to filling up with the new oil (I fill up checking dipstick at regular intervals, always giving enough time for the oil to settle first), it seems that the amount of new oil I put in was less than 4 litres (I'd guess around 3.8litres)......

Could there really have been around 1/2 litre of old oil lying at the bottom in the sump before refilling?

Makes me wonder if, for the next oil change, I should drain the oil with the front of the car jacked up higher than the rear (i.e. on front ramps)?

Any ideas as I'm pretty peeved that it seems that over 10% of the 'new' oil in my car's engine is still of the old stuff.......

Edited by JezUK on 23/07/2021 at 14:09

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - SLO76
Wouldn’t be overly concerned. The car is 19 years old and given you 5 years good service. Whatever you’re doing regarding maintenance is obviously working well.
Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - elekie&a/c doctor
What about the filter, did this get replaced?
Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that (I always change the filter when doing an oil change).

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Andrew-T

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that (I always change the filter when doing an oil change).

Then we must also assume that you run the engine to check for leaks, and then the dipstick after the oil has settled ?

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor

Yes, I did :)

Edited by JezUK on 23/07/2021 at 17:33

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor

She's given me 10 years great service. Hopefully two more years so we can get to 100,000 miles covered during my ownership (147k total).

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - sammy1

Was the dip stick up to the full mark Before you drained it and at the full mark after you started it up to fill the filter? Annoying but nothing to worry about. If you put flush through it all that would have drained out Car sounds like a good old work horse worth giving it a treat!

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - bathtub tom

Oil filter, camshaft sump? I've seen some camshafts run in a sump of oil.

I won't mention a certain car that doesn't have a dipstick, but a tap on the sump that you open and if no oil comes out, you put some in!

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - edlithgow

Oil filter, camshaft sump? I've seen some camshafts run in a sump of oil.

I won't mention a certain car that doesn't have a dipstick, but a tap on the sump that you open and if no oil comes out, you put some in!

I'm not sure what you mean by "camshaft sump". I suppose an OHV pushrod engine could be so described.

I'd have bet money a 2002 Honda Accord was OHC. Certainly the VTEC I ran for a while recently was.

Do you mean the camshaft runs in its own subsidiary sump? Not heard of that but I could see some attraction since it'd start up in an oil bath.

Re the car you wont mention, but did, how about mentioning it by name?

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - bathtub tom
I'm not sure what you mean by "camshaft sump". I suppose an OHV pushrod engine could be so described.

I forget which car it was, but it han an OHC that sat in a bath of oil. I wondered why the oil got dirty so quickly after a change and found out when I had to have the head off.

Re the car you wont mention, but did, how about mentioning it by name?

A very old Wolseley, probably pre WW1.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Bolt

Was the dip stick up to the full mark Before you drained it and at the full mark after you started it up to fill the filter? Annoying but nothing to worry about. If you put flush through it all that would have drained out Car sounds like a good old work horse worth giving it a treat!

I wouldn`t call it a treat, an older engine if running properly should not be flushed as it moves crud around the engine and could block oilways if your unlucky, I can never understand why people bother on a good engine, if its running ok leave it...as long as it gets clean oil it should last another 100K or more

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - brum

Even after draining there is always a significant amount of old oil still in the engine. That's why manufacturers state two quantities, service fill and dry fill. Typically 0.5 litres difference on smaller engines, more on larger. Oil is lying in every nook and cranny, oil pump, galleries, camshaft space, hydraulic tappets, tensioners, oil seperator, on all internal parts.

That's why a diesel engine turns the oil black almost instantly after an oil change

Unless you strip an engine completely and clean all the parts and galleries, you cannot remove all the old oil.

But its not important to remove every last drop, what is important is regular oil changes to dilute any residue and keep the average level of contamination low, refresh the additives, detergents etc.

If you want to keep an engine ultra clean, change the oil even more regularly. Like washing your clothes.....

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Andrew-T

Even after draining there is always a significant amount of old oil still in the engine.

A lot will depend on thoroughness - how long it is allowed to drain and how hot the oil is.

I don't know what method they used, but when a local garage did the last oil change with filter on my Pug 207 diesel, I was surprised to find after driving the half-mile home that I had to look carefully at the dipstick to see the oil. Usually diesel oil is dirty straight away - or it hasn't been fully drained.

I'm pretty sure that they didn't bother to flush the engine, or they would have charged. :-)

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - John F

I too wouldn't bother flushing. Anyway, in modern engines with oil changes at least every 10,000 miles there shouldn't be any crud to dislodge. I always position the car with a slight tilt to where the drain plug is, ensuring that it really is at the lowest point. Also, I leave it to drip for several hours, usually overnight, ensuring that all the dirty stuff sticking to the sides ( like in a tomato sauce bottle) eventually flows to the bottom and drips out. This way, the new oil should be almost invisible on the dipstick for many miles hence.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor
Great reply John F.

I too will do my next oil change with the drain plug at lowest point. I think this is why I believe some oil remained (1/2 litre left inside sounds a lot).

Our drive is one an incline when I did it and I will admit that maybe the sump plug wasn’t 100% the lowest point, maybe level at best.)
Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor
The method I used was pretty much as is in my Haynes manual.

In the case of this new oil I’d bought came with a surprise can of engine flush. I’ve never used this oil before, and it came highly recommended, plus I don’t expect to keep this car for more than another two years, so thought what the heck, give it a go!

You’re recommended to add this flush to the old engine oil and let it idle for 5 to 10 mins which is what I did. (Old oil was at halfway between marks on dipstick so I was safe to add this without risking over filling).

Afterwards I let the old oil drain for what seemed like 30 mins, with oil cap off and oil filter removed (once the sump oil had been let out first).

Even after 1/2 hour, there were still oil drips coming out of sump hole but by 30 mins I wasn’t going to wait any longer.

I’m glad I used the engine flush, I’m confident my car will benefit from it, though would be more thoughtful we’re it a lot newer .

Edited by JezUK on 24/07/2021 at 14:05

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor
Thanks Brum, that’s all really good to know :)
Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - edlithgow

Your numbers don't give much basis for confident arithmetic. You don't say how you know the sump had 4.3 litres in it, you don't say what the volume of flushing additive was, and its not possible to asses the accuracy of you "guess" that 3.8 litres brought it to the full mark.

Fortunately none of this matters much, though its best to get as much of the old stuff out as possible.

I let it drain overnight at least, longer if I don't need the car.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - brum

I let it drain overnight at least, longer if I don't need the car.

Pointless exercise, may actually cause more damage than good as it coukd take significantly longer to prime the pump and circulate the oil to everywhere. In the case of the Ford Ranger with 3.2l engine it would be disastrous

4wheeldriveguide.com/ford-ranger-3-2-oil-pump-prim.../

Do you want a turbo spinning up without oil pressure/flow in its bearing for 5 seconds?

Do you want a hydraulic chain tensioner to be drained down when starting?

Unless you can physically turn the engine upside down and shake it about, you're just not going to shift the last 0.5 litres so the 50cc you drain overnight is insignificant. And you might find airborne dust has found its way into the open sump plug/ filler cap.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - edlithgow

I let it drain overnight at least, longer if I don't need the car.

Pointless exercise, may actually cause more damage than good as it coukd take significantly longer to prime the pump and circulate the oil to everywhere. In the case of the Ford Ranger with 3.2l engine it would be disastrous

4wheeldriveguide.com/ford-ranger-3-2-oil-pump-prim.../

Do you want a turbo spinning up without oil pressure/flow in its bearing for 5 seconds?

Do you want a hydraulic chain tensioner to be drained down when starting?

Unless you can physically turn the engine upside down and shake it about, you're just not going to shift the last 0.5 litres so the 50cc you drain overnight is insignificant. And you might find airborne dust has found its way into the open sump plug/ filler cap.

Re the above "do you wants?" I'd be out of luck if I did, since I dont have a Ford Ranger, turbo or hydraulic chain tensioner, nor do I particularly want any of them.

Re airborne dust working its way against gravity into the engine. I plug the drain port loosely with paper towel. I do this mostly for a wicking effect since the drain port is poorly designed, but it may defeat anti-gravity dust demons too.

Re pump-priming, this gets into a controversial area, since oil pumps are often (and have been recently described on here), as non-return devices. It also gets perilously close to the/a core question in the long unresolved thin v. thick oil debate, but 4WIW, after an oil change I take the plugs out and spin the engine over on the starter for a bit.

Possibly another pointless exercise, but its only once every half decade.

Re you're just not going to shift the last (whatever arbitrary number you like) its my oil change and I'll try if I want to.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor
Well the arithmetic is so basic, I didn’t feel the need to give all the figures, but since you seem to doubt me on such omissions of data let me oblige……

Oil can is 5l (unopened).

Engine capacity is 4.3 l to maximum dipstick mark (service manual).

1 l between dipstick marks.

Oil level was 3/4’s from bottom mark.

Flush was 300ml (as written on side of can - didn’t verify if true, but I took their word for it).

After oil change, and given plenty of time to settle into sump, oil was measured (many times) and was at top mark of dipstick.

Quantity of oil left in can 1.2 litres (indicated by marks on side of oil can whilst can placed perfectly horizontally on flat brick wall surface..).

Therefore only 3.8 litres of fresh oil was poured into the engine.

No leaks under car,

Took car for drive 20 min drive, parked, approx. 2 hours later checked oil level again. Oil still at top dipstick mark…..

Warm day, ambient temperature I’d say was about 62f. Light wind.

Time of oil change, 9:26am

Date, 23rd July 2021.

Location, East Sussex.

Around 650 above sea level.

Sorry, I don’t have the coefficient of evaporation for the engine flush………

Let me know if I’ve restored your confidence in my arithmetic or if I’ve missed other data which might help you assist me further…..

Edited by JezUK on 24/07/2021 at 14:30

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - sammy1

Your figures seem to check out. Explanation could be build up of sludge in the engine over the years that the flush did not remove or volume stayed in the engine and did not drain

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - brum

Your figures seem to check out. Explanation could be build up of sludge in the engine over the years that the flush did not remove or volume stayed in the engine and did not drain

Was the car level when draining? Was the oil filter removed after the sump plug replaced? It would help if you knew how much you drained.

I decant the drained oil into an old empty container so get a rough idea how much came out not forgetting there's an unknown quantity still in the removed old oil filter and still coating the catch container and some spillage.

Even then I've realised the markings on oil cans are very approximate, especially the lowest one as containers are not perfectly square.

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - Turkish_Emperor

Hi Brum,

Yes, as mentioned previously, our drive is on an incline, I'd say at best the sump plug and sump base were horizontal. For future oil changes, I'm going to have sump plug as lowest point.

I did take the old oil to the Council Tip, unfortunately I didn't do anything more than tip the old oil into the big container there. Had I a spare gallon container, I would have poured it in there first (must remember this for next time).

Lots of good advice there from you once more, so thanks once again :)

Honda Accord 2002 2.0i petrol - Oil change on car, was 1/2 litre old oil still in? - edlithgow

Yeh, thats better.

A few years ago, having noticed ferrous metal settling on the dipstick and confirmed it using a magnetic pickup tool down the dipstick hole, I took my oil pump apart to see if it was the source.

Seemed OK, but the pump pedestal had casting voids in it which were completely full of semi-solid sludge.

I dunno how general such voids are in engines (this in a 1986 Charade, sort of) but their existence would limit what can be achieved with a flush, unless it was run for much longer than is normally advised.