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DS the early years - badbusdriver

Fair to say the Citroen DS is an icon of car design and it also probably wouldn't surprise many people to learn that such a complex car (for its time) had some teething problems. But after reading an article (Classic & Sports Car, June edition) on one of the oldest surviving DS's, I learned that these teething troubles went far beyond what I was aware of!.

Apparently Citroen, at the time, were obsessed with secrecy, so while engineers were familiar with their own 'aspect' of the car, very few had any understanding of the whole car. Dealers knew nothing whatsoever about it, and in most cases, refused to do anything with a broken down car. Citroen had a team of trouble shooters who would be dispatched to deal with DS problems. Cars they were unable to fix were, if possible, towed away under cover of darkness save anyone seeing the new flagship as unreliable.

But the issues themselves were numerous. Hydraulics, predictably, caused many headaches, leaking all over the place, including into the radiator. The clutch juddered, engines mangled their valve gear, the Italian made carbs were incompatible with French petrol. The low pressure pump generated so much heat it boiled the engine coolant. Steering ball joints cracked, fuel tanks collapsed due to an internal-external pressure differential. There was only a key lock on the drivers door on early cars, so if it was parked drivers side next to a tall kerb, when the suspension 'settled', you couldn't get in!. Even the wind up clock didn't work properly. When things were at their worst, the troubleshooting team would be taking up to 200 calls per day and members would be forever getting on trains or planes with a briefcase containing hydraulic rubbers and sometimes a length of hydraulic line round their shoulders!.

Things weren't much better abroad. In the US, the special Citroen hydraulic fluid was banned and ordinary Lockheed fluid used as a substitute. But this had inferior lubricating quality causing its own issues including, in the semi-auto version, locking the car in gear. Castor oil was added as a remedy, but in colder climates the oil crystallised into clots which blocked all hydraulic orifices. In the humid climates of the French overseas territories, dampness entered the hydraulic system causing the fluid to emulsify!.

It wasn't really till 5 years after the official launch (1955) that Citroen finally got on top of all the problems and the DS went on to become the icon it is.

DS the early years - Xileno

Always liked them, if I had storage I could easily imagine having one as a fun car. Rust and complexity were the big problems.

I remember the DS was covered in The Car's the Stars TV series in the late 90s, here is the link:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNB2RCqMLQ

DS the early years - SLO76
Much as I often criticise the firms later offerings, Citroen have built some Truly brilliant cars over the years.

Citroen AX GT
Citroen Saxo VTS 16v
Citroen BX Turbo Diesel
Citroen CX Turbo
Citroen XM 2.1 TD
Citroen ZX Volcane 16v/ Turbo diesel
Citroen Xantia turbo diesel 1.9/2.0/2.1
DS the early years - Will deBeast

I'd add the Traction Avant to that list. I've always hankered after a 6-cylinder.

DS the early years - FiestaOwner
Apparently Citroen, at the time, were obsessed with secrecy, so while engineers were familiar with their own 'aspect' of the car, very few had any understanding of the whole car. Dealers knew nothing whatsoever about it, and in most cases, refused to do anything with a broken down car. Citroen had a team of trouble shooters who would be dispatched to deal with DS problems. Cars they were unable to fix were, if possible, towed away under cover of darkness save anyone seeing the new flagship as unreliable.

But the issues themselves were numerous. Hydraulics, predictably, caused many headaches, leaking all over the place, including into the radiator. The clutch juddered, engines mangled their valve gear, the Italian made carbs were incompatible with French petrol. The low pressure pump generated so much heat it boiled the engine coolant. Steering ball joints cracked, fuel tanks collapsed due to an internal-external pressure differential. There was only a key lock on the drivers door on early cars, so if it was parked drivers side next to a tall kerb, when the suspension 'settled', you couldn't get in!. Even the wind up clock didn't work properly. When things were at their worst, the troubleshooting team would be taking up to 200 calls per day and members would be forever getting on trains or planes with a briefcase containing hydraulic rubbers and sometimes a length of hydraulic line round their shoulders!

The DS was way ahead of it's time. I suppose it's not surprising that some of the earlier cars were problematic.

I see that today's car manufactures still repeat some of the same faults. Hyundai still produce cars with clutches that judder. My 2004 Clio only had a key lock on the passenger(!) door so if you parked the passenger side close to a wall and the central locking failed, you couldn't get in the car. Many dealers still don't have the knowledge on how to diagnose and fix their cars.

However to me the DS has always been a bit special. It's a car that always attracts my attention (even as a young kid it the early 1970's). There's just never been another car like it.

The DS is the one car I'd love to own (subject to having access to a good specialist and a healthy bank balance for maintenance).

DS the early years - Engineer Andy

What's sad is how the marque came back in the last 10 years and has again essentially disappeared. The DS3 (when under the Citroen badge) was a great-selling car (I used to see them everywhere, now very few around) because it looked great, handled well and was quick in the more powerful versions.

And yet when Citroen decided to rebadge them as 'DS' with the rest of the range, sales plummeted. Note sure why for the DS3 - perhaps reliability issues finally surfaced, or the marketing campaigns were poor. The other 'Nu DS' cars never received particularly good reviews.

Very strange.

DS the early years - Bromptonaut

And yet when Citroen decided to rebadge them as 'DS' with the rest of the range, sales plummeted. Note sure why for the DS3 - perhaps reliability issues finally surfaced, or the marketing campaigns were poor.

Most Citroen dealerships were reduced from DS/Citroen to Citroen only. IIRC they're not even supposed to service DS models, at least during the warranty period.

Last time I was in Perrys in Milton Keynes they were having to direct a DS owner to Aylesbury.

DS the early years - corax

I never realised how different a DS was to drive until I read this.

www.tradeclassics.com/the-citroen-ds-a-top-ten-cla.../

DS the early years - Engineer Andy

And yet when Citroen decided to rebadge them as 'DS' with the rest of the range, sales plummeted. Note sure why for the DS3 - perhaps reliability issues finally surfaced, or the marketing campaigns were poor.

Most Citroen dealerships were reduced from DS/Citroen to Citroen only. IIRC they're not even supposed to service DS models, at least during the warranty period.

Last time I was in Perrys in Milton Keynes they were having to direct a DS owner to Aylesbury.

I can't even recall ever seeing a DS dealership in the recent 'split'. A shame about the DS3 - I really liked the styling and performance.

TBH the idea of having a 'premium' sub-brand bearly worked for the best example (Lexus) - I don't count the plethora of VAG brands as they haven't shared dealerships and then split off, but what they've done by amalgamating already established brands from various nations and finding a specific market is by far the best solution.

DS the early years - lucklesspedestrian

Saw a DS cabrio in Hexham the other day. SWMBO just looked at me with a mixture of bemusement and faint pity when I started shouting and pointing and trying to explain what a wonderous thing it really was.

DS the early years - badbusdriver

Saw a DS cabrio in Hexham the other day. SWMBO just looked at me with a mixture of bemusement and faint pity when I started shouting and pointing and trying to explain what a wonderous thing it really was.

Been there!, its tricky being a lover of classic cars but not knowing anyone else who'd 'get' why you are excited!.

Still in the case of the DS (cabriolet or otherwise), being such a beautiful thing, I'd be surprised if anyone other than the visual equivalent of being tone deaf couldn't appreciate what they were looking at.

Them DS cabriolet's (Decapotable) though?, big money!. They do vary, but I saw one recently in a classic car mag for £250k.

DS the early years - Sofa Spud

While the DS was one of the most innovative cars ever, meaning that teething problems were hardly surprising, the engine and (I think) transmission were carried over from the old Traction Avant models, so at least those bits should have been fixable by any mechanic familiar with French cars.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 21/07/2021 at 21:30

DS the early years - badbusdriver

While the DS was one of the most innovative cars ever, meaning that teething problems were hardly surprising, the engine and (I think) transmission were carried over from the old Traction Avant models, so at least those bits should have been fixable by any mechanic familiar with French cars.

Yes, which is a little sad. Citroen had actually planned an air cooled flat 6 for the car(!), but didn't have the necessary funds to develop it. And so it ended up with the, already old hat by then, (and fairly uncouth) Traction Avant 4 pot. It did eventually get the option of a reasonable power output with the fuel injected 2.3 making around 140bhp.

But I can't help wondering what might have been, if the air cooled flat 6 had made it into production?!.

DS the early years - Steveieb
Robbie Coltrane is the most local follower of the DS and owns nineteen.
One was destroyed in a Comic Strip he starred in .
Mike Brewer restored one in his programme and the radio he bought cost £1500 and then a lot more to make it digital.
Always reminds me of General de Gaule
DS the early years - Xileno

What about this beauty, perhaps almost too perfect a shame to use it.

www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1346307

DS the early years - mcb100
How about an electric DS -

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/citroen-d...o
DS the early years - badbusdriver
How about an electric DS - www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/citroen-d...o

Yes please!

DS the early years - ExA35Owner

I remember learning in school that the French would pronounce DS as déesse - which seems very appropriate for such an amazing car.

DS the early years - badbusdriver

I remember learning in school that the French would pronounce DS as déesse - which seems very appropriate for such an amazing car.

And that French pronunciation means 'Goddess', so yes, very appropriate. Incidentally, the French pronunciation of the ID (the more basic version of the DS) translates as 'idea'.