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Any reason why he 'needs' a Mercedes, other than image? He would be paying a premium for the bedge and frankly very little else.
As SLO says, Mercs are not the paragon of reliability they were up until the mid 90s, and nor are they cheap to maintain as regards servicing and especially parts (particularly as the car gets older and parts become more scarece).
What is his expected annual mileage? What many people call 'high' is not as much as you think - often a decent, frugal modern petrol engined car can be a far better buy as they often aren't as heavy on the jungle juice as they previously were, cheaper to buy than diesels, and aside from the fuel cost, far cheaper to run due to their lower engine/emission system complexity and thus better reliability over the long term.
Edited by Engineer Andy on 20/02/2020 at 11:51
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I don't have the knowledge or experience to comment on the qualities of the proposed purchase ... but was intrigued by the subject heading "upgrading to auto".
Do forum members really regard it as an "upgrade" to choose an automatic ... surely more driver satisfaction will be achieved by purchasing a vehicle with a manual box. There may be very valid reasons for choosing an auto, but to my mind it doesn't constitute an "upgrade".
Edited by Theophilus on 20/02/2020 at 14:26
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I don't have the knowledge or experience to comment on the qualities of the proposed purchase ... but was intrigued by the subject heading "upgrading to auto".
Do forum members really regard it as an "upgrade" to choose an automatic ... surely more driver satisfaction will be achieved by purchasing a vehicle with a manual box. There may be very valid reasons for choosing an auto, but to my mind it doesn't constitute an "upgrade".
It depends - with all the extra traffic and thus stop-start traffic jams, having an automatic makes sense. Less pressure (at least compared to using a dual clutch or standard manual) on the components and a more relaxed drive, not riding the clutch or keep endlessly going into first, seocnd, stopping and repeating every few metres.
When I test drove an auto car a few years ago, it was very comfortable once I got used to not really worrying about clutch control and my left foot trying to press a phantom clutch when slowing down.
Obviously for those people wanting performance, DCTs can be better for those who don't have good clutch control. Not so good for steep gradients at slow speed or in heavy traffic, of course.
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Do forum members really regard it as an "upgrade" to choose an automatic ... surely more driver satisfaction will be achieved by purchasing a vehicle with a manual box. There may be very valid reasons for choosing an auto, but to my mind it doesn't constitute an "upgrade".
This is obviously going to come as a major surprise to you, but not everyone enjoys driving. Many just consider it a necessary part of everyday life to get from point A to point B. For those people, going from a manual to an automatic gearbox would indeed be an 'upgrade'. Even folk who do enjoy driving (and i count myself among them) but spend most of their driving time in stop start traffic are going to find that much more pleasant in an auto.
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Do forum members really regard it as an "upgrade" to choose an automatic ...
It 's usually an upgrade in price as a good autobox is more complex. Many can also be overridden manually if you want more 'driver satisfaction', although it will override your choice of gear if unwise. An autobox protects the engine from labouring or over-revving. I would never revert to a manual for the daily driver.
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I’m on my first auto in 52 years of driving manuals and I love it. I had always shunned autos on grounds of the complexity of breakdowns and the perceived lack of enjoyment in driving. However, after a trip to America a few years ago where all cars are auto, I suddenly saw the point. I don’t miss changing gear at all and I quite enjoy observing how the auto box shifts between the gears as we negotiate the usual challenges of driving.
My only concern is the reliability aspect as my auto is a DSG. However, I got comfortable on that issue by buying new and not having to worry about it for the first three years. In year 4, I have bought an extended warranty and if I decide to keep the car for a 5th year I shall opt for the extended warranty again. At £375 it seems a good bet against gearbox failure and, of course, all other major components are covered too.
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I’m on my first auto in 52 years of driving manuals and I love it. I had always shunned autos on grounds of the complexity of breakdowns and the perceived lack of enjoyment in driving. However, after a trip to America a few years ago where all cars are auto, I suddenly saw the point. I don’t miss changing gear at all and I quite enjoy observing how the auto box shifts between the gears as we negotiate the usual challenges of driving.
My only concern is the reliability aspect as my auto is a DSG. However, I got comfortable on that issue by buying new and not having to worry about it for the first three years. In year 4, I have bought an extended warranty and if I decide to keep the car for a 5th year I shall opt for the extended warranty again. At £375 it seems a good bet against gearbox failure and, of course, all other major components are covered too.
I am no fan of the DSG. But in your case, assuming you don't flog it, it will probably last just fine. You bought the car new and you know how it has been driven for its entire life. Which is an entirely different prospect than buying used and not knowing how it has been treated!.
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I've had autos for years, Volvos and Mercs... very used versions I hasten to add... and have had no gearbox problems. You never need a clutch which has to be something of a bonus. How anybody designed an auto box is beyond me, pure genius.
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basically he lives in Sheffield, where hill starts and crawling in traffic takes its toll, he does around 15000 miles per year also with regular crawls through glossop... he would like a bit of prestige with his next car but is struggling for a nice car with a torque converter gearbox...
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basically he lives in Sheffield, where hill starts and crawling in traffic takes its toll, he does around 15000 miles per year also with regular crawls through glossop... he would like a bit of prestige with his next car but is struggling for a nice car with a torque converter gearbox...
By 'prestige', I presume he means either 'German' and/or 'Sports saloon', rather than than just 'luxury' or high engineering quality?
If so, that rules out all oriental brands (a shame). If he is ok to spend quite a lot of money buying and running a sports saloon like the one he suggests, why is he concerned with fuel economy? Surely he'll spend more in insurance and maintenance than on fuel, and 15k miles per year isn't really that much in the grand scheme of things - normally 20-25k miles is the crossover point for petrol to diesel for equivalent performance.
TBH any German sports saloon is going to cost quite a lot to buy and run, whether they are a diesel or petrol engined car. That he is looking at a car nearly 12 years old says he cannot afford to run one. If something big goes on it, it could cost several thousand Pounds to get it repaired and back on the road, otherwise he'll have to get rid of it and lose a huge chunk in depreciation.
Unfortunately, the type of driving (including terrain) means that whatever car he uses won't get anywhere near the average mpg, epsecially an automatic. Whilst a torque converter one will be more reliable, it'll get far less mpg being driven in those circumstances. A dual clutch box would be IMHO vulnerable to failure which again could cost a fortune to repair/replace in comparison to the cost of the car. To much of a risk if you ask me.
To me, if he must have an auto, that rules out all VAG cars as well. Other backroomers may correct me on this, but aren't most BMW ZF auto boxes of the TC type? Not sure about the reliability of their diesel engines though, and again, the same issue over older DPF-equipped cars kicks in.
Shame they won't likely consider a Lexus. Whatever they get, don't get one on low profile tyres as it'll give an overly firm ride and go through tyres, rims and suspension components in no time on our wonderfully pothole-ridden roads.
It also is a bit difficult given no budget for buying and annual spend on running costs (fuel plus servicing/maintenance and insurance. What age range/insurance profile is he (i.e. has had had loads of claims, speeding tickets and/or lives in a high risk area for claims?). He could buy something a bit less 'prestigious' that's a lot newer and a bit more expensive to buy but less to insure and run.
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I’d sooner recommend a Honda Civic 1.8 auto or Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv to him than a diesel Merc. Both will pretty much match the economy of the Merc and both will almost certainly outlast it too. Leave badge snobbery I’ll til the budget matches his ambition.
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I’d sooner recommend a Honda Civic 1.8 auto or Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv to him than a diesel Merc. Both will pretty much match the economy of the Merc and both will almost certainly outlast it too. Leave badge snobbery I’ll til the budget matches his ambition.
I would as well but it sounds like the OP's son's heart is set on something German.
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Hi, Thanks for all the replies....He is currently running an ageing 1.9 tdi golf but would like an auto for the reasons mentioned earlier...I have steered him away from DSG otherwise he would just get an auto golf or audi as the current golf has served him well...I have done all the better the devil you know and all that but.....I will get him look at the Japanese options see what he thinks. Thanks again.
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If budget fits tell him to have a drive in the Mazda 3 or a Mazda 6 before ruling them out on badge alone. Both are very pleasant things to row down a twisting B road.
Edited by SLO76 on 21/02/2020 at 00:47
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Totally agree with SLO. Mazdas look fabulous too and have a gorgeous distinctive design.
Mercs tend to be autos because that's what their buyers expect. And as most are, Merc never really bothered to make the manual a brilliant thing to use.
Hi..Any chance of a few links to what are considered a good spec and worthy of a viewing within his budget of £8k it may help in his / our search...Thanks again.
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Where roughly is he? I’ll take a wee look for a few nearby worthies.
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Where roughly is he? I’ll take a wee look for a few nearby worthies.
Hi. He lives in Sheffield, works in Doncaster. We are in Northwich. Thanks.
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SLO, have you forgotten about this?
I did! It’s an age thing.
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Bit more money but this approved used Civic will be offering reliable service in a decade. Decent on fuel, very practical and easy to flog at the end. These are excellent used buys and the straightforward engine and transmission have no vices.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191212528...9
Really rate these big cars. Mazda offer German dynamics with Japanese reliability plus there’s a bit of style. A car supermarket so be careful when checking it over. Look for a full history and be very thorough with the paintwork.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200206700...2
Possibly a bit bland looking for him but brilliant little cars, a joy to drive and very reliable.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200207707...9
Not a huge fan of used Mercs but this one is less of a risk than a diesel. I’d buy only if it has a dealer or specialist history and there’s a Merc specialist nearby to maintain it.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200215734...2
Cheaper option but loads of kit and very long lived.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190430747...5
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Do you think the fact that they were posted on the 23rd Feb. might have something to do with it?
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Do you think the fact that they were posted on the 23rd Feb. might have something to do with it?
((chuckle)) :-)
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Spotted this big fella too. Nice combination of torquey diesel motor and torque converter auto plus big comfy leather seats. Nice to drive and well able of doing big mileages. Approved used too and a far safer place than a Merc that’s 4yrs older.
I just found a great car on Auto Trader:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200124653...9
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Thanks for that...plenty of sensible food for thought, I will keep you updated...
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That's a superb Accord there SLO, lots of pics to get a feel for the car too, sitting on Goodyears too if i'm not mistaken, not some unheard of junk, all good signs.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2020 at 07:47
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Spotted this big fella too. Nice combination of torquey diesel motor and torque converter auto plus big comfy leather seats. Nice to drive and well able of doing big mileages. Approved used too and a far safer place than a Merc that’s 4yrs older. I just found a great car on Auto Trader: www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200124653...9
Why recommend that car nice as it may look. 3 years ago your advice was "but if you're spending £4K or less then forget turbocharged hot hatches, luxury executives and DPF equipped diesels of any kind". I appreciate its £8000 but it still meets all of your criteria for not buying and any 8 year old car is going to have issues. Parts for a model that was never popular are going to be expensive.
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“ Why recommend that car nice as it may look. 3 years ago your advice was "but if you're spending £4K or less then forget turbocharged hot hatches, luxury executives and DPF equipped diesels of any kind". I appreciate its £8000 but it still meets all of your criteria for not buying and any 8 year old car is going to have issues. Parts for a model that was never popular are going to be expensive.“
It’s a low mileage approved used car with a full history and Honda diesels are generally reliable with few cases of DPF problems if regular longer runs are applied. It is at the bottom end of where I’d recommend a diesel but I’ve confidence in this particular model and engine plus it suits the car better than the petrol. It’s one of the few diesels I’d buy at this money.
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I have had the odd auto over the years and recently changed a manual Skoda for an auto Peugeot.
I would not contemplate going back to a manual - auto is hugely preferable around town, and there is absolutely no difference on a motorway.
The only occassion where I have used the paddle change to good effect is in hilly open driving where going uphill toward a sharp bend it can be better to manually change down to 2nd or 3rd rather than wait until mid-corner for the car to do it for you. This is hardly a game changer!
MPG - no real difference on a motorway. Around town 3-5 mpg worse - but if I did nothing other than town driving, it would be around fiver when I fill the car up every 3-4 weeks.
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I have never owned an auto, simple reason, I have always found manuals way better to drive. Wife had an auto Cortina back in the 80's and hated it, she assures me it always tried to run away from her when going down hill, perfectly normal in my experience for an auto but she did not want another.
But back in February this year we had a Volvo XC40 on a 2 day test and that was an auto, no manual option on the 2 litre petrol. We both agreed it was great and its currently on our wish list.
Last week we tried a Corolla 2 litre Hybrid with a CVT, a transmission I had never tried before but normally they are a bit marmite in reports. They have obviously come on a long way, this one drove great but unfortunately the car fell slightly below our expectations in other areas.
Pretty sure our next car will be an auto but it will have to be a good one.
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I also recall borrowing my bosses Cortina, probably late 1970s.
Totally gutless, slurring between gear changes, 3 speed box (I think), horrible!
2018 Peugeot 308 atuto - 8 speeds, gear change barely perceptable, no perfomance penalty vs manual, minor mpg difference - like chalk and cheese.
In truth performance is far more easily accessible than a manual - foot down, go VS foot down, clutch up, one hand on steering wheel, one ready to shift gear, foot hovering over clutch, clutch down, gas off, shift gear, clutch up, gas down ... second gear .....phew!!
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