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still trying to crack the old chestnut - concrete

I am unsure exactly how to proceed in replacing my car. The lease expires in a few months so I need to think about a replacement. So far so good, except I need several features that seem incompatible. I tow a caravan and need to tow 1500Kg. The vehicle will do about 10k per year, except now our youngest and his wife are finally producing children I suspect that will increase as they live in Sheffield and we are in Kent. Not enough miles really for a diesel, but towing with a diesel seems far easier. Even diesel engines are becoming smaller. It is harder to get a above 1500 to 1600cc these days. the same with petrol. Ideally a larger petrol engine would suit if it has the guts to tow as well as a diesel, but again these are fewer every year. Towing also depends on vehicle weight. Therefore even a very powerful engine in a light bodied vehicle is no good. Difficult problem to solve and compromise is inevitable I think. If any one has cracked this one please enlighten me. I know a few forum member do tow so their experience may be useful. Cheers Concrete

still trying to crack the old chestnut - oldroverboy.

do you need a car, or a crossover/suv.

The new Ssangyong Korando will pull 1500 kg petrol and 2000kg diesel.

Petrol engine is 1.5 turbo 160ish donkeys braying away...Diesel. 1.6 or 2.2 litres

Much improved on old model and 7 years warranty/

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Metropolis.
How about the new Mitsubishi Outlander? It is now available with a 2.0 litre petrol engine, although i am not sure about towing specs. Of course there is also the PHEV, again would need to check towing figures!
still trying to crack the old chestnut - badbusdriver

Typing in to Google, "best car for towing 1500kg caravan" gives this from caravanhelper.co.uk,

www.caravanhelper.co.uk/best-car-for-towing-1500kg.../

Not sure if any appeals (they do seem to be mainly diesel). However, looking beyond that website, i did come upon this,

www.thetowcarawards.com/tow-car/honda-cr-v-6/

Seems to fit your weight and petrol powered requirements (obviously they are not overly keen on it, but it may work better with 1500kg than the stated 2000kg max), though not sure about lease rates.

Edited by badbusdriver on 01/10/2019 at 19:30

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Brit_in_Germany

1.6 GDI Kia Sportage? They quote a maximum towing weight of 1900 kg.

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Wee Willie Winkie

The 1.6GDi Sportage is painfully underpowered, even without dragging a plastic shed behind it.

Edited by DieselBoy on 01/10/2019 at 20:45

still trying to crack the old chestnut - badbusdriver

The 1.6GDi Sportage is painfully underpowered, even without dragging a plastic shed behind it.

I think he means the T-GDI, the GDI has a max (braked) trailer weight of 1400kg, but the T-GDI manages 1900kg in either 2wd or 4wd. This could well be a good shout, with 174bhp and 265nm of torque from 1500-4500rpm (161nm @ 4850rpm for the GDI).

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Wee Willie Winkie

Ah, okay. I'll wind my neck in then!

still trying to crack the old chestnut - RJ414i

Ford Focus Estate 2l Diesel?

still trying to crack the old chestnut - bazza

The obvious choice would be a big Skoda superb 2.0 TDI estate, that will do it all for you and a very good car as well, when it's on lighter duties.

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Avant

Or an Octavia, if you don't need the space in the car. Both this and the Superb can be had with 2.0 petrol or diesel engines. If you don't want VAG, the Volvo XC40 or Honda CRV could do the job.

What are you driving at the moment? Does it do the job?

still trying to crack the old chestnut - SLO76
Assuming the budget fits I’d body-swerve another never ending lease or PCP if there’s no company allowance funding it and I’d buy a good approved used Honda CRV 1.6 DTEC Auto for around £15k instead. It has plenty of power, decent economy, is very well made and has a great reputation for reliability and longevity. Space inside is vast yet it’s easy to park with built in parking sensors.

Borrow £15k over 5yrs at 2.9% APR and it’ll cost £268.61 a month and £16,116.60 in total, vastly cheaper in the longterm than paying a lease forever and you’ll actually own something that has value at the end of it. As a big family car it’s hard to beat and very relaxing.
still trying to crack the old chestnut - Nomag

Well we tow a 1400kg caravan too but our requirements are otherwise a little bit different.

Key here is what the OP said about weight of the towcar, not just its power output. We have had the same caravan 11 years, started out towing it with an Octavia Estate 2.0 TDI, then an S-max 2.2 TDCi, now a Sorento 2.2 AWD.

All three of these had plenty of power to tow the van. However, the S-max was more stable a tow car than the Octavia, by some margin, and the Sorento better still, because of it's weight to caravan weight ratio. If you are going to carry on towing, you have to prioritise this, because even if your towing mileage is low, you want the most stable towcar possible. Believe me journies with the caravan are so much more relaxed now than when we had the Octavia.

The Sorento is our first auto, and personally I do not want to tow with a manual car again, just so much more relaxing and less stressful with the auto.

So if you do plenty of long runs, I'd recommend a nice heavy diesel auto. 4wd is nice for towing in slippery conditions, but hardly essential unless you're camping in muddy fields on a regular basis.

We looked at the (then new) 1.6 twin turbo CRV when we ended up the Sorento, but I felt I was getting more for my money at the time with the Kia (especially the warranty). I was also a bit nervous about the twin-turbo setup and smaller capacity of the Honda, the single turbo 1.6 diesel was well proven but the twin turbo less so. I guess it might well be worth a look now. BTW our Sorento has been a great tow car. Now has 70k miles on the clock (15 plate).

still trying to crack the old chestnut - expat
The Sorento is our first auto, and personally I do not want to tow with a manual car again, just so much more relaxing and less stressful with the auto.

You might want to fit a transmission oil cooler. A lot of autos have an oil cooler built into the radiator and that can be a big problem if it springs a leak. You don't want coolant in your auto box or auto transmission fluid in your coolant. It can get very expensive. Best to have a separate additional transmission cooler. This is especially important if towing.

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Will deBeast

You don't give a budget so it's hard to say what would suit.

If there's no real restrictions, my top recommendations would be:

  • VW Toureg
  • Kia Sorento/Hyundai Santa Fe
  • Ford Mondeo

still trying to crack the old chestnut - SLO76

You don't give a budget so it's hard to say what would suit.

If there's no real restrictions, my top recommendations would be:

  • VW Toureg
  • Kia Sorento/Hyundai Santa Fe
  • Ford Mondeo

Wouldn’t go recommending a Ford Powershift auto to anyone, especially with the added pressure of towing. It’s a very fragile gearbox.
still trying to crack the old chestnut - concrete

Thank you so far chaps. Some good comments. I do intend to buy this time around and keep it for a long time. I did this with my Skoda Superb diesel and maintained it well and it paid off. It does seem though that all the good, weighty cars for towing are diesel. I take the point regarding towing with a saloon car. The Surpeb was fine but my current Volvo XC60 is light years ahead for towing and auto too. Although diesel is demonised I might have to just go with it anyway. I take the point from SLO about the Honda. I like Honda and had three Accords in succession until the company switched to diesel and at the time Honda did not have one. Excellent cars all round. Pity they no longer make the 2.0 diesel, I would have settled of that. ORB is right about the Ssang Yong. They are well built solid jobs for towing. The official testers do not like the way they drive and handle, whatever that means. But I ignore most of that. they used to slate some cars for drive and handling and I found them to be very good comfortable cars to drive for everyday use. I think I shall start arranging test drives. Someone did say the Peugeot 5005 was a good tow car too. So plenty to go at. I shall come back with my findings and conclusions in due course. Cheers Concrete

still trying to crack the old chestnut - SLO76
“Pity they no longer make the 2.0 diesel,“

Assuming you mean the older 2.2 DTEC? The new 1.6 twin turbo is more powerful and fuel efficient. Reliability so far has been spot on too as Honda have learned from the first diesel which was the 2.2. Not much to fear from the big Kia either but depreciation is higher and they’re bad for rot underneath so I’d favour the big Honda for longterm ownership.

Edited by SLO76 on 04/10/2019 at 20:10

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Metropolis.
I still don’t see how any of these beat a petrol Outlander. Why buy a diesel with DPF and the eco lobby gaining footholds in governments across europe. I wouldn’t pay attention to the caravan club either as they come out with some very strange advice, like the Kia Rio at one point being towcar of the year.

Side note, sorry but ‘big’ isn’t how i’d describe a honda CR-V. It’s well packaged ie spacious inside for its size, but still based off the civic. Drove one recently and wasn’t impressed by the fidgety ride even on the motorway and the road noise was much worse than my 15 year old Discovery. By British standards a Discovery or Mitsubishi Shogun (not the Sport) can be considered big. CR-V is more comparable to a Rav 4, eclipse cross, ewok, are compact 4x4s. Apologies if this is a rant, but it’s a bugbear of mine when jacked up hatchbacks get described as big 4x4s.
still trying to crack the old chestnut - Manatee
I wouldn’t pay attention to the caravan club either as they come out with some very strange advice, like the Kia Rio at one point being towcar of the year.

The Caravan and Motorhome Club, as it is now, employs some utterly clueless people.

I couldn't believe my eyes in 2016 when the Citroen C4 Cactus was named Towcar of the Year in the under £20,000 category. There is scarcely a caravan on the market that you can tow with this and carry any rear seat passengers or luggage.

I thought they must have made a mistake with the weights so I wrote to them -

The Club tested the car with a 825Kg caravan and gave it the win. I am astonished that this car has won and that there is no mention under “Caravanability” of the fact that towing the caravan used for testing was at the expense of a large chunk of the car’s own payload allowance. The nearest the comments come is to say that “loadspace for a family is restricted”. In fact, you probably wouldn’t be able to carry the family at all.

The Club quotes a kerb weight of 1143Kg, presumably after weighing it. From the Citroen brochure, the maximum laden weight (MLW) of the car alone is 1610Kg. The maximum gross train weight is 2210Kg. The maximum towing weight (MTW) is 825Kg.

Perhaps you have already seen the problem. If the car is loaded to its maximum of 1610Kg, including the 55Kg maximum noseweight which must come out of the MLW, the heaviest caravan that can be towed without exceeding the MGTW is 655Kg.

Put another way, if one were to tow a 825Kg caravan, then the available payload in the car would be 2210-1143-825=242Kg.

That 242Kg has to include the driver and passengers, any luggage or possessions, and the 55Kg noseweight. My wife and I together weigh 146Kg (we are not especially heavy people) so we would only have 41Kg to play with for other contents. A further passenger would have to be well under 7 stones not to break the MGTW limit, with no other items in the car at all.

I think a mistake has been made. Perhaps someone from the Club would like to comment?

Their reply was-

The Citroen Cactus was the best towing vehicle in its category, despite its GTW limitations. Please note that the Peugeot 2008 was also restricted on its towing weight based on the GTW.

which is just ridiculous, especially as they made no mention in their report of the limitations.

So I replied -

Thank you for your reply.


Can I just add, for your information, that the [Caravan Club] matching tool that might alert members to the limitations of this car will not currently help, as it is using an incorrect value for GTW (2435 rather than 2210) and the noseweight limit figure is not populated.

Also, neither the GTW or noseweight limit are populated at all for the Peugeot 2008.

Answer came there none, so I gave up. Do not rely on anything the CMC says or writes about towcar suitability, check for yourself.

Edited by Manatee on 05/10/2019 at 09:42

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Engineer Andy

Maybe the Caravan Club has some useful guides. Just a thought.

still trying to crack the old chestnut - badbusdriver

I still don’t see how any of these beat a petrol Outlander. Why buy a diesel with DPF and the eco lobby gaining footholds in governments across europe. I wouldn’t pay attention to the caravan club either as they come out with some very strange advice, like the Kia Rio at one point being towcar of the year.

Side note, sorry but ‘big’ isn’t how i’d describe a honda CR-V. It’s well packaged ie spacious inside for its size, but still based off the civic. Drove one recently and wasn’t impressed by the fidgety ride even on the motorway and the road noise was much worse than my 15 year old Discovery. By British standards a Discovery or Mitsubishi Shogun (not the Sport) can be considered big. CR-V is more comparable to a Rav 4, eclipse cross, ewok, are compact 4x4s. Apologies if this is a rant, but it’s a bugbear of mine when jacked up hatchbacks get described as big 4x4s.

I guess it depends on what you are used to or indeed comparing it to. Coming from an Audi Q7 or a Range Rover yes, a CR-V isn't that big. But it's a good chunk bigger than our Jazz and i'd certainly describe it as a 'big' car, if not the biggest. As for comparisons to the Outlander petrol, well i'm not sure what your criteria are, but the stats don't really support it as being a better choice than a CR-V either in current petrol form, or the last gen twin turbo diesel SLO is referring to.

The Outlander produces 150bhp @ 6000rpm, 144lb/ft of torque @ 4200rpm, and weighs 1540kg.

The current CR-V produces 190bhp @ 5600rpm, 179lb/ft of torque from 2-5000rpm, and weighs 1600kg.

The previous shape CR-V twin turbo diesel produces 160bhp @ 4000rpm, 258lb/ft of torque @ 2000rpm and weighs 1658kg.

I don't know how the towing weights compare, but those bare figures show the Outlander petrol as being the lightest in weight (so, in theory, less stable) as well as having less torque (much less then the diesel) at much higher rpm than either CR-V.

BTW, going back to the size of the CR-V, it is 9.5cm shorter, but 4.5cm wider than the Outlander. So in terms of it's 'footprint', or the amount of road space it takes up, the Outlander is very slightly smaller than the (current) CR-V, but is in turn slightly bigger than the previous one.

still trying to crack the old chestnut - Heidfirst

Just how much do you tow?

Have you thought about a 2019> Toyota RAV4 AWD?

Rated to tow up to 1650Kg braked. 2.5l n/a petrol engined hybrid & owners on the ToyotaOwnersClub forum seem to be getting impressive mpg (at least when not towing). The Volvo probably has the classier cabin though & unless you are willing to be flexible on colour/trim, grade etc. delivery may be longer than you need it to be with your existing lease expiring.

Edited by Heidfirst on 08/10/2019 at 18:06