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Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - focussed

Honda have just announced that their Swindon plant will close in 2022.

A consequence of the recent trade deal signed between Japan and the EU where Japanese imports into the EU will become tariff free perhaps?

Or something else maybe?

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Engineer Andy

Partly (its not Brexit BTW), but I think that it's poor sales of the Civic due to the not-so-appealing exterior looks (it's rather large too compared with rivals) and a general downturn in both the C-sector market and Europe generally.

Not helped by them being very expensive to buy. I think that Toyota and Mazda's new rivals will sell well because they are far better looking and match or better the Civic in other aspects.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - pd

I can't help but think the primary reason is absolutely no one seems to be buying Hondas in Europe.

The current sales make local production pretty much unsustainable on this current scale.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Mike H

I can't help but think the primary reason is absolutely no one seems to be buying Hondas in Europe.

Bit of a sweeping statement there, and certainly not true in the area of Europe where I live! We have a very good small Honda dealer here in Austria, which does good business. All the models are popular, particularly the CR-V of all ages thanks to its AWD. We took a hybrid out for a test drive last Friday, and when things are clearer with regard to Brexit, we'll probably be buying one.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - pd

I can't help but think the primary reason is absolutely no one seems to be buying Hondas in Europe.

Bit of a sweeping statement there, and certainly not true in the area of Europe where I live! We have a very good small Honda dealer here in Austria, which does good business. All the models are popular, particularly the CR-V of all ages thanks to its AWD. We took a hybrid out for a test drive last Friday, and when things are clearer with regard to Brexit, we'll probably be buying one.

The overall sales figures tell a different story. Over 300k per year ten years ago down to 130k a year now.

OK, so not no one, but the economics of making and selling 300k+ cars in a region are very different to selling 130k.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - andrew bairsto

They are selling well in Germany .

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - daveyjp

Making products not enough buyers want, general Global downturn, Japanese/EU free trade deal.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - oldroverboy.

Just doing as per Nissan.. Need jobs in Japan, Uk has poorest worker protection.

simples

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Engineer Andy

Just doing as per Nissan.. Need jobs in Japan, Uk has poorest worker protection.

simples

All that means is that in some of these other EU nations (e.g. France), firms can't sack bad workers or make people redundant because of legit reasons such as falling sales or, yes, bad workers (e.g. those who expect big pay rises for doing no more than last year or when sales/profits are down and efficiency is lower than equivalent plants elsewhere).

I'd rather not subsidise poor quality qorkforces or failing brands. Why should an owner or government subsidise a failing business model or plant. Remember BL? Honda sales have not been great in the last decade and their hey days of the 1990s and early 2000s are well and truly gone.

I would put good money on the Civic Type R selling in greater numbers per year than the latest standard Civic (all bar the latest Type R, which sells only a tiny fraction of the old model from 15+ years ago). Even the Jazz sells far less than it used to - and can't compete with the other superminis and small SUVs with their bland and slow HR-V.

I don't think it helps when the Civic isn't exactly a looker, is very large for a C-sector car and is priced up there with the likes of Audi. And it's soon going to have far more competition with cars that look much better and go at least as well from the Far East as well as from Europe.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Warning

Just doing as per Nissan.. Need jobs in Japan, Uk has poorest worker protection.


I have read Japanese business books and their ideology is to build factories, in hard pressed areas, where they have the most benefit to the local population. They are far more loyal to workers and believe in jobs for life.

I am unclear, if the EU-Japan trade deal is the cause or the referendum result.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Warning

I test drove a 2013 Civic, it was an enjoyable car to drive. No car has made me feel, that I would love take her all the way from Dover to Scotland. It was a car, I would want to tour Britain with. However, the car was small for my needs.

I hired a VW Golf on holiday, I wondered why people fuss over it?. It was n't anything special to drive. The Civic was nicer.

I don't like the styling of the new Civic, with its zig zag style tail light. The Qashqai is the best looking SUV style car. The Honda CR-V looks stodgy by comparison.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - lordwoody

The Qashqai is hideous.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Warning

consequence of the recent trade deal signed between Japan and the EU where Japanese imports into the EU will become tariff free perhaps?

It will put Britain at a disadvantage, if they are subject to tariffs and cars coming in directly from Japan are duty free.

I suspect those jobs might have gone over time, but Brexit has only hastened their decision.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Warning

How much does it cost to ship a car from Japan to Europe versus say one built in Britain to the rest of Europe?

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Brit_in_Germany

Probably cheaper to ship a car on a purpose built transporter than shipping the components to build a car.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - daveyjp
Swindon Hondas are shipped to the US as well as Europe.

As US is so large it makes no difference delivering to the east coast from Southampton or west Coast from Japan.

KiaHyundai ship from the far east and in the grand scheme of costs it isn't expensive.

Edited by daveyjp on 18/02/2019 at 18:59

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - T Lucas

Or we could all put our fingers in our ears and keep just repeating "its nothing to do with Brexit"

How very surprising.....not.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Steveieb
Such dissapointing news especially as a relative works there and has enjoyed a rewarding job in management.
But it's not surprising especially after the British Government treated Honda over the Rover sale. And the cost of regularly redesigning the Civic after successive models bombed.

But centralising product ranges may have had an effect, robbing Swindon of the more popular Jazz and transferring CRV production to Canada.

Does anyone know where Jazz production has gone to ? I saw a newish one yesterday built in Japan reading from the VIN plate but rumours are that Mexico is another source but what is the first letters of the VIN code ?
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Engineer Andy

If backroomers can read the Telegraph article (it is behind their paywall) today by Andrew English (link below), then I suggest you should:

www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/comment/dont-blame-brexit.../

It goes into far more detail about the reasons than HJ has (reporting the news only, which is fair enough).

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - SteveLee

The trade deal with the EU was clearly going to have this effect, why would the Japanese continuing manufacturing here when they don't need to? The hastily cooked up trade deal was all about the EU torpedoing the UK economy for having the audacity to (try) to leave the EU. This is the mentality of the people we're dealing with - why on earth are we continuing with trying to deal with these dangerously fanatic people, I do not know - just walk away already.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - toblerone

The trade deal with the EU was clearly going to have this effect, why would the Japanese continuing manufacturing here when they don't need to? The hastily cooked up trade deal was all about the EU torpedoing the UK economy for having the audacity to (try) to leave the EU. This is the mentality of the people we're dealing with - why on earth are we continuing with trying to deal with these dangerously fanatic people, I do not know - just walk away already.

Hardly hastily cooked up. Negotiations between the EU and Japan commenced in 2013, before there was any intention to hold a referendum in the U.K.
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Falkirk Bairn

Honda has problems with their range here - or rather lack of range - handful of models.

In Japan they have the UK models + Kei cars (660cc or less)+ US models + Japan only medium cars + vans +MPVs- huge range overall.

Some USA cars made it here in the past BUT 3 litre+ petrol only limited their appeal.

Honda were pioneers in hybrids - lost their way for 10 years

Honda built brilliant engines - but only recently have they made turbo engines for UK cars.

5 Hondas in 25 years & sad that they will no longer be made here - off the 5 - 3 were great (odd minor repair in 90K miles) & 2 were/are brilliant in reliability - zero repairs only tyres, brake pads, wipers & servicing)

PS Decline in sales not helped by them sacking really good, family owned dealers - really only chain dealers left in Honda stable although I can name 3 independents in rural Scotland

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - sandy56

Honda have been struggling to sell their cars in Europe for years. In 2016 they only had ~1% of the market and made little in profit. In the USA they have had numerous recalls and the new CRV has had problems and people are turning away. They are struggling in CHina, like most car makers.

They are doing the sensible thing in bringing UK production back to Japan. The fact is the new CIvic has not sold well anywhere.

Was Brexit a factor, of course it was, but their problems started long before that.

Edited by sandy56 on 19/02/2019 at 08:00

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Catfood
Does anyone know where Jazz production has gone to ? I saw a newish one yesterday built in Japan reading from the VIN plate but rumours are that Mexico is another source but what is the first letters of the VIN code ?

Honda Jazz production has gone to Honda's Yorii Plant in Japan.

automotivemanufacturingsolutions.com/focus/yorii-f...o

Edited by Catfood on 19/02/2019 at 08:48

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - nick62

Never mind, all the UK owned car companies can bring overseas production back onshore.................. oh wait!

JLR don't even build the i-Pace in the UK.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Oli rag

Never mind, all the UK owned car companies can bring overseas production back onshore.................. oh wait!

JLR don't even build the i-Pace in the UK.

JLR are Indian owned!
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - oldroverboy.

So, allegedly.. JLR are short of space in the Uk..

Could they take over the factory?

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - keybored

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Leif

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Our being part of the EU didn’t stop them negotiating a trade deal that harms our car industry. So much for friends.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - alan1302

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Our being part of the EU didn’t stop them negotiating a trade deal that harms our car industry. So much for friends.

They started negotiating before the referendum so the UK was fully aware about it and had we been staying the same deal would have been in place.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Leif

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Our being part of the EU didn’t stop them negotiating a trade deal that harms our car industry. So much for friends.

They started negotiating before the referendum so the UK was fully aware about it and had we been staying the same deal would have been in place.

Exactly my point. Our being a member didn’t prevent this damaging deal.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - alan1302

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Our being part of the EU didn’t stop them negotiating a trade deal that harms our car industry. So much for friends.

They started negotiating before the referendum so the UK was fully aware about it and had we been staying the same deal would have been in place.

Exactly my point. Our being a member didn’t prevent this damaging deal.

You said so much for friends...if the UK was staying in the UK we would have been happy with the deal as well...the UK could veto it if still a member though...although as we would not do so.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Leif

Honda Swindon has been on borrowed time for several years, so yes it's nothing to do with brexit but you remainers just keep telling yourselves the opposite.

Our being part of the EU didn’t stop them negotiating a trade deal that harms our car industry. So much for friends.

They started negotiating before the referendum so the UK was fully aware about it and had we been staying the same deal would have been in place.

Exactly my point. Our being a member didn’t prevent this damaging deal.

You said so much for friends...if the UK was staying in the UK we would have been happy with the deal as well...the UK could veto it if still a member though...although as we would not do so.

The point I was making was that this deal was created while we were a member, and it makes the UK less favourable as a manufacturing base for Japanese companies. Previously we were seen as a gateway to the EU. Removing tariffs means Japan no longer needs us.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - mss1tw

Honda don't even supply to the UK commercial market (No vans, huge potential market against Vauxhall/Nissan/Renault junk), and their motorbike range lost the plot a long time ago

(Own an 03 CRV and a 98 Africa Twin)

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - focussed

Where we are in France there isn't a Honda car dealer in our nearest largish town we have to travel about 35 miles to get the Accord serviced. The Honda dealer we use is just a three man and girl in the office operation - like a small fast fit garage in the UK.

One salesman/manager, one clued up workshop technician / workshop manager and he also does parts sales - one car washer/valeter who helps out in the workshop - one secretary/ receptionist and that's the sum total of their staff.

When we eventually change the Accord it will be either be Toyota, Suzuki, Kia or Hyundai we shall look at - all local dealers. There are actually more Honda Marine dealers and lawn and garden dealers than there are Honda car dealers. There are very few Honda motorcycle dealers around, Honda is not a popular bike over here - it's Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki & BMW mostly.

Honda france are not helpful to deal with with regards to homologation and certificates of conformity for registering UK imported vehicles - to tell the truth, they are a pain in the a*** as many expats have found when trying to register uk bikes in France.

A pity really!

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - daveyK_UK
New Honda electric city car looks good

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - daveyK_UK
To the comment ‘JLR need space’ - expect castle Bromwich site to close in the next 2 years, that’s the rumour within the company
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - SLO76
The trade deal is the main reason though I find it hard to believe it’s cheaper to manufacture in high cost Japan than it is in the UK and then they have to ship the things around the globe to come back again.

Honda have been half hearted about the European market for some time. They really tried in the late 90’s into the 00’s with most things covered from supermini to supercar via family hatch, Estate, saloon, two seater, MPV, 4wd and luxobarge. But then they seemed to give up. Aside from the Jazz, Civic and CRV they stopped trying, things like the Accord became special order only then they were dropped.

Today their cars are well made and should be longlived but there’s no Estate car, no diesel option on their SUV, no affordable hot hatch or sports car. The Japanese decided the European commercial vehicle market was too competitive to bother with so largely they stay out but it sadly looks as though their cars are heading the same way with ever decreasing choice.

I hope things reverse, the idea of having no Honda option would be very sad but as far as UK production is concerned the day they moved Jazz and CRV production away was the beginning of the end. They were looking to this new EU negotiated trade deal which torpedoes our Japanese owned UK built car industry which the rest of Europe were rather jealous of. Thank EU!
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - catsdad
Its a world-wide issue. Europe is not a growing market so addressing Asia and the US from Japan will probably reduce shipping miles. Presumably they believe they can achieve economies of scale by consolidating production. I've seen reports this week that Swindon is running at 50% capacity. It would have been nice to see this filled by another product but it wasn't to be.

As for the range, worryingly couldn't the same point be made about Toyota and Nissan in UK? The only European groups with a wide range are Citoen/Peugeot and VAG, although there several clones in there concealing a pretty narrow range.

I regret the lack of a Honda estate option but I believe estate cars are disproportionately popular in Europe and the UK in particular. I guess we will need to get used to global tastes as UK and European share of the markets declines.

Longer term, autonomous vehicles will reduce ownership rates as people opt to buy transport as a service and this will probably reduce vehicle variety further. Who cares what their glorified taxi will look like? The biggest vehicle supplier then will probably be a company we've not yet heard of and some familiar names will be just memories........
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - SLO76
“As for the range, worryingly couldn't the same point be made about Toyota and Nissan in UK?“

Not so much. Toyota have almost everything covered, city car, supermini, small hatch, family saloon and estate, small SUV, large 4wd, sports car, luxury saloons, hybrid, diesel, and looming near supercar in the new Supra. It’s quite a comprehensive range and the new Corolla and Camry all look promising.

Nissan aren’t as complete but they’re still covering more bases than Honda with struggling Infinity luxury brand included.
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Catfood

Honda’s previous CEO was an accountant not an engineer. That’s when Honda started to go wrong.

Hopefully they will come back with more interesting offerings, however, they need to strengthen EV product range.

Honda is very strange company and lately they are more interested in making jets and robots(to be used in nursing home)

http://www.hondajet.com/

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Falkirk Bairn

How things change

1995 I bought a Honda Civic - my first Japanese car (made in USA)

Salesman at the time said it was the best job he had had in 30 years in the motor trade - huge range of cars - small Civics, Civics, Accord saloons/estates, Preludes, MPV, even Legends although he said he had never sold one.

2017/18

Different Garage, different salesman

Hard times - limited range - Jazz, Civics, HRVs, CRVs

Jazz too slow 1 litre out of Civic would make a difference. Honda put a 1.5 NA but in only 1 model.

Civic - too big (almost Accord size) & style was not everyone's taste

HRV - poor engines, no 4x4, poor Mexican quality

CRV - priced too high & no diesel

NSX a talking point - 1 x white one in the garage - owned personally by the director & not for sale.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Steveieb
Turn the clock back 15 years when Honda decided to call it a day and abandon F1.
Just after spending 1million on a wind tunnel at it HQ at Brackley.
Along came Ross Braun and bought the company for 1 yen together with the services of Jenson Z Button for a year and bingo suddenly we have a F1 champion team.

So who will be the saviour to rescue the Swindon plant?

Looking forward 5years I guess the only Japanese car maker left in Europe will be Toyota France who will find it too expensive to sack the French workers.

SLO is dead right the EU have landed a killer blow on the UK by rushing through the trade deal just at a crucial time in the negotiatiations. So don't let's blame the Japanese ?
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - SLO76
The trade deal also opens up the Japanese market to our products, in particular our huge financial industry which accounts for far more here in the UK than the car industry. Always beware the attention seeking headlines, there’s always another side to the story.
Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - alan1302
Turn the clock back 15 years when Honda decided to call it a day and abandon F1. Just after spending 1million on a wind tunnel at it HQ at Brackley. Along came Ross Braun and bought the company for 1 yen together with the services of Jenson Z Button for a year and bingo suddenly we have a F1 champion team. So who will be the saviour to rescue the Swindon plant? Looking forward 5years I guess the only Japanese car maker left in Europe will be Toyota France who will find it too expensive to sack the French workers. SLO is dead right the EU have landed a killer blow on the UK by rushing through the trade deal just at a crucial time in the negotiatiations. So don't let's blame the Japanese ?

Was it rushed through?

They started negotiations when the UK was a member of the EU - and the UK seemed happy with it then.

Also Swindon has been running at about 50% capacity for years which would never be sustainable.

So you think Suzuki will stop producing cars in the EU as well?

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Engineer Andy

Ironically, with the deal, Japanese car firms have no incentive to produce cars in the EU any more to get round the import rules. Whilst they are better at setting up factories and instilling a decent work ethic in staff (e.g. comparing those in Nissan's, Honda's and Toyota's UK plants with those current and former ones for EU/US brands), they still aren't quite up to Japanese/Korean standards, and, of course employ home workers which helps the economy. There's little difference in the cost of shipping parts and shipping cars.

Apart from Kia/Hyundai, sales of the major Japanese car manufacturers has seen a steady decline over the last 20 years, not helped by incomplete range lineups and poorly thought-ou/styled cars that don't appeal to the more style-conscious European public. IMHO Mazda bodged up on their diesels and don't have any sportier engines in their EU range (they do in North America and Down Under) as well as limited their ranges/sub-models, until the new Corolla (the GT86 is never going to be a mainstream car, nor is the new Supra, and neither are made by them anyway), Toyotas?Lexuses aren't what you'd call 'drivers cars' as well, and Hondas (as well as being an incomplete range) boring and very expensive.

Very few younger people are filling the gaps in the OAP market as, well, those people pass away. Young people want nippy/quick and stylish cars that handle well. And well, that isn't Japanese - only Mazda are in a position to turn things around in a reasonable amount of time, but ONLY if their new generation diesels are reliable and the SCCI engine is too and delivers on its promises for extra mpg and power and can quickly replace the dull-but-worthy current N/A Skyactiv-G engines. We''l have to wait until the back end of the year (when the new Mazda3 gets that engine) and beyond (mpg and reliability in the real world) to find out.

Toyota/Lexus could also do so if they take the significant improvements from the new Corolla and quickly apply them across the board as each car gets revamped - but as we see from their (same platform?) SUVs etc, they still are very much more miss than hit on the styling and driver experience. I think they and Honda have only kept a reasonable market share because of their reliability and decent dealer networks (which plays well with the older, more conservative driver - the odd styling doesn't).

Subaru are back down to their pre-WRX days with little for the average (nonrural/farmer) driver to look to (not helped by them being expensive to buy and run, even the standard cars), Mitsubishi are slowly going the same way and anyway are now essentially part of Renault-Nissan (hardly a boon for reliability), Suzuki don't really have much of a mainstream foothold in Europe except for motobikes. Infinity is just a fancy Nissan with complex Renault and Mercedes bits and sell next to no cars in the EU anyway.

I bet KIA/Hyundai are laughing their heads off at all this. Kudos to them for making the best of a below par world (and especially EU) market - they haven't got everything right, but have made far better business and engineering/design choices than most makes from that part of the world. Give them another 10 years and I could easily see them surpass (for a long time) Toyota's sales in the EU and even beyond.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Steveieb

The decision will bound to upset the "this will see me out brigade", who proudly boast that their Honda was made in Swindon , no matter where it was built.

No comment yet from HJ who is their number one fan , even though it took two days to replace the heater matrix on his beloved Jazz !

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - alan1302

The decision will bound to upset the "this will see me out brigade", who proudly boast that their Honda was made in Swindon , no matter where it was built.

No comment yet from HJ who is their number one fan , even though it took two days to replace the heater matrix on his beloved Jazz !

If people think their car was made in Swindon how will this decision affect them?

2 whole days? Is that not reasonably quick? It could only have been quicker had it been 1 day.

Honda. - Honda to close Swindon plant in 2022. - Bolt

If people think their car was made in Swindon how will this decision affect them?

It wont, but some people have funny ideas about owners of Hondas, I have owned Civics for years and will stay with them due to the fact their isn't a motor that can replace it.

it does everything I need with ease and is reliable and economical, so it wont worry me where its built, I also know several other Honda owners that have said the same thing.

though if they disappeared altogether then would have to go for another make but the closest I could get to what I need would be the Avensis estate but I'm not that keen on the shape, the Civic is one of a kind and will keep mine as long as possible

I was surprised when I bought my first Civic 2010 the amount of comments about its rear screen and body shape being ugly, but one thing can be said for Honda is they are different and imo that's a good thing, too many cars look similar today