Fair point, though I'd rather have both. In days of yore, types weren't ultra low profile and wide, and thus could get ok-ish grip in spite of them being many years (or decades) behind current tyre tech. Perhaps insurers could give discounts for people who've gone on accredited courses for driving in snow and icy conditions.

It's not sensible to inflict such laws on the private motorist. But there would be considerably less disruption if such laws applied to commercial vehicles. They should be either shod with suitable tyres or, in the case buses and heavy artics with smooth tyres, be obliged to carry snowchains and a driver able to fit them. They are the vehicles which effectively close major roads when they reach a slightly hilly stretch.

Overpowered cars (which is nearly all of them), turbos that increase low down torque, wide tyres and aggressive throttle maps to make cars feel more powerful all aggravate heavy footedness.

Probably why (hope I'm not temptin fate here) I seem to do ok driving in snowy conditions, even on summer tyres (though not driving anything really powerful, RWD, auto or shod on wide, low profile tyres) - I'm generally a light-footed (not Captain slow) driver. Probably why my average for getting through a set of tyres is around the 40k miles mark, and mostly that's me getting rid of them due to them ageing, not wear.

Front wheel drive cars are okay in snow when driven sensibly, assuming it is not too deep, and if you carry a spade in the car, you should be okay. Maybe it should be mandatory to carry a snow shovel?

A shovel is more efficient for shifting snow but a spade is good for breaking up ice/frozen slush. We add a spade to both cars if driving in snow.

Ten years ago when we had heavy snow, my little Ford Ka was scuttling up and down hills, passing countless expensive rear wheel drive cars unable to move. I stopped to help dig out several. The only time I got into trouble was because I had to stop, the road being blocked by a Mercedes. Once stopped, getting going again required that I remove snow from the road in front of the car.

Many years ago i was living in Wigan and working at a local garage. One winter i got a loan of a Fiat Cinquecento (899cc) to come home to Noth East Scotland for Christmas and new year. It also happened to coincide with a lot of snow, but the little Fiat was unstoppable on its dinky little tyres which, if memory serves, were 145's!. These days, that would be considered a space saver tyre, but they worked a treat in the snow. Even further back i had a MK2 Fiesta diesel which was similarly brilliant in the snow, i found that if (in the unlikely event) i couldn't get through a snow drift going forwards, i could just turn it round and it would reverse through pretty much anything!.

Ten years ago when we had heavy snow, my little Ford Ka was scuttling up and down hills, passing countless expensive rear wheel drive cars unable to move. I stopped to help dig out several. The only time I got into trouble was because I had to stop, the road being blocked by a Mercedes. Once stopped, getting going again required that I remove snow from the road in front of the car. This year I was stationary for three hours 1km from home because two lorries had collided. There was a very long queue of cars on the dual carriageway. I couldn’t do my usual short cut because it was blocked by a 4 by 4 style vehicle stationary on the slope. The same day the M3 was blocked, and I heard that was due to lorries jackknifing. Front wheel drive cars are okay in snow when driven sensibly, assuming it is not too deep, and if you carry a spade in the car, you should be okay. Maybe it should be mandatory to carry a snow shovel? Anyroads, my next tyres will be Michelin CrossClimates or similar. Unfortunately my current tyres have 4.5mm tread left after 20,000 miles. Then again, snow is uncommon down here.

Sounds like my experience in Jan 2003. Many similar comments on the other thread:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/128379/one-snowfla...d

PS. My current car's (rubbish) OEM tyres also had the same wear as yours but after 40k miles, but changed them as they were also 6.5 years old and were getting very hard, leading to a poor ride quality, excessive noise and, worst of all, a couple of hairy moments when the back end stepped out whilst cornering at relatively low speeds in light rain.

If yours are younger or a newer design (that may last longer before that happens), then they'll probably be ok (are these the ones you swapped your 'dodgy' tyres for or was that another Backroomer?) for the time being.

What are automatics like in snow? Presumably clutch control is no longer in the driver's hands? (or feet)

TC (don't know about the latest CVT's) are lovely, having infinitely variable progressive power fed in, automated manuals are not in the same league and dual clutch boxes being a posh automated manual about the same.

My automatic Landcruisers have been the best vehicles i've ever driven in poor conditions apart from double drive manual tipper lorries (unstoppable), SWMBO automatic Forester XT isn't as nice as despite being TC auto as it wants to take off like a scalded cat at the merest touch of the throttle which close maneuvers er interesting.

We don't get a lot of snow where I am, too close to the sea(!), so not a huge amount of experience in either our current Jazz or the Hyundai i30 turbo diesel before it. But what little I did experience showed me that missing the clutch pedal was no problem at all pulling away. I can use as little throttle as I deem necessary and it is fine. Using the gears manually to slow down is also fine, even on the Jazz. Even though it doesn't actually have gears, it's stepped ratios work the same way, i can put it in sport mode, which will hold it in a lower ratio anyway, but I can also use the paddles for further control. Biggest problem with the i30 was the Eco tyres, which were utterly hopeless on ice and snow, despite being fairly narrow with a tall sidewall.

What are automatics like in snow? Presumably clutch control is no longer in the driver's hands? (or feet)

Better than manuals - no clutch to suddenly create wheelspin and "automatically" change up to the highest gear.

Everything Steve has stated is sensible and achievable too. Lots of other sensible comments too, eg tyre sizes.

My present car came with 215/40/17 tyres. It's an obscure size, not a great range of tyres and what is available is stupidly expensive. Lower down the model range is size 185/60/15 ... a much more popular size, better range of tyres and much more wallet friendly prices. The spare that came with the car was this size so it must fit all 4 wheels. So I've changed and put on Michelin CrossClimate tyres. Any good in the snow? - others say so, I've yet to see any in my corner of Kent (on the coast) so I can't say. But, crucially too, these tyres are 3 mountain peaks certified with the relevant symbol embossed on the side so there must be a winter capacity.

The problems over the past few days were cars getting stuck in snow, I'd like to see an analysis of the tyres on these cars, and whether any cars were able to keep going whilst others around couldn't.

For HGV's I'd think chains would be a the simplest answer, but not being an HGV driver others may have a better solution.

After Brexit has been absorbed and normal legislative life has began again I'd like to see changes to tyre law so that there is a blanket ban of sales of less safe tyres altogether, and to encourage (force) tyres like the CrossClimate or the new Bridgestone Weather Control A5 or similar to be factory fitted to new cars so to reduce the likelihood of vehicles getting stuck every time a few inches of snow falls.

If the snow and ice is that bad, no law is going to make tyres grip better, I think there are more than enough laws as it is without making laws to do the impossible

although there is one law I would like to see come in and that is to outlaw second hand part used tyres as some are not too clever and can be dangerous, but that's my opinion

Everything Steve has stated is sensible and achievable too.

I profoundly disagree. He said this....

"Normal" people with "normal" cars and tyres could switch to sensible all-season tyres all year round. Those who insist on rubber bands slithered over their 20+ inch wheels can stump up for winter wheels and tyres,....... Take the decision away from the style over substance idiots and make M&S tyre mandatory in the winter.

We (a couple of pensioners) have three cars, only one of which has winter tyres and which gets used when conditions are bad. It would be stupid to enforce M & S tyres on our other two cars.

I don't think there's much evidence for significant ecological salt damage, either.

Edited by John F on 04/02/2019 at 11:57

Does anyone know why truck drivers don't like fitting chains?

Try doing it. I was hitchhiking through the Spanish French border coming back

COMING rom Portugal in 1974 and in the snow in the mountains nobody wanted to fit them.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 04/02/2019 at 07:02

What, in your humble opinion is a “normal” person and car?

Think he means people who are not interested in driving or motoring, but need to travel on roads through necessity. Some of those will drive irrespective of the conditions, and these days they don't have a simple rear wheel drive car with a live axle to teach them to slow down.

Mud and Snow tyres are designed to work well in, um, mud and snow. Gritting of the roads would still be required to deal with ice as you need studded tyres for this.

Your first paragraph is very Jeremy Clarkson - full of gammony attitude but short on facts - grippy tyres are available. Some people just prefer tyres which give better economy.

And all weather tyres are a compromise. They have less grip in dry, warm weather than a standard tyre. Which seems to contradict your attitude in the first paragraph.

"They have less grip in dry, warm weather than THE BEST standard tyre" - but still more than enough grip away from race tracks.

How many owners refuse to pay the high prices for the BEST standard tyres, preferring something cheaper and less capable?

Mud and Snow tyres are designed to work well in, um, mud and snow. Gritting of the roads would still be required to deal with ice as you need studded tyres for this.

Your first paragraph is very Jeremy Clarkson - full of gammony attitude but short on facts - grippy tyres are available. Some people just prefer tyres which give better economy.

And all weather tyres are a compromise. They have less grip in dry, warm weather than a standard tyre. Which seems to contradict your attitude in the first paragraph.

To be fair to all-season tyres, especially the best in class (essentially the latest), many appear to be as good as similar non-performance summer tyres from the previous generation (say 3-5 years ago) in non-winter conditions, but FAR superior in winter conditions, never mind snow and ice.

Tyres are always going to be some sort of compromise, but they have improved a great deal in the last 20 years or so, especially all-season tyres, that have experienced marked improvements in performance, mpg and life just in the last 5 years. I'm not surprised that they are rapidly gaining in popularity.

Even the use of winter tyres has grown in the UK, as more people are aware how good having two sets of tyres can be for use in more northerly and remote areas. Websites like this have helped, but I think it's been the public's greater access to useful information from the likes of YouTube, the excellent Tyre Reviews website and other forums that have ensured people are far more aware of what the situation is, making more informed choices.