I think the buying public's perception plays a significant role in all of this. Joe Bloggs who knows nothing about cars will naturally associate a "used" car as one that's been owned and run by someone else.
That is a good point and I suspect is spot on. The dealer can't advertise them as 'new' even though, for all intents and purposes, they are, but if they advertise the car as 'used' or '2nd hand', many potential buyers wouldn't even look.
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The dealer can't advertise them as 'new' even though, for all intents and purposes, they are, but if they advertise the car as 'used' or '2nd hand', many potential buyers wouldn't even look.
Why should the dealer advertise them as used or 2nd hand. They have been no more used than a new car but since they have a previous name on the V5C they obviously cannot be sold as new.
A few examples.
Dad bought a pre-reg Almera in Feb 1997. It had just reached the end of its 6 month embargo along with dozens of identical cars at the dealers. All consecutive reg numbers form the north east and a mixture of Primera and Almera. Real bargains, chaper than year old used cars on the same lot. When he got the V5 he was the 5th name. Registered to Nissana dn than moved between 3 other dealers. But the car had only done 8 miles and when he evetually traded it the dealer was not interested other than dad being the first private owner.
Bought a Puma from Motorpoint. German import pre -registered. 10 miles on the clock. Bargain.
When we got the Leon was brand new and registered to us after the finance application had cleared. It had 40 miles on the clock thus was probably more used than the 2 pre-reg cars above.
All 3 cars were sold correctly. Pre-reg is a term used for well over 20 years now and why some don't understand it is beyond me. I blame Mrs Thatcher and her education cutbacks.
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Why should the dealer advertise them as used or 2nd hand. They have been no more used than a new car but since they have a previous name on the V5C they obviously cannot be sold as new.
A few examples.
Dad bought a pre-reg Almera in Feb 1997. It had just reached the end of its 6 month embargo along with dozens of identical cars at the dealers. All consecutive reg numbers form the north east and a mixture of Primera and Almera. Real bargains, chaper than year old used cars on the same lot. When he got the V5 he was the 5th name. Registered to Nissana dn than moved between 3 other dealers. But the car had only done 8 miles and when he evetually traded it the dealer was not interested other than dad being the first private owner.
That's absolutely crazy. It wouldn't be easy to sell on with 5 previous owners.
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That's absolutely crazy. It wouldn't be easy to sell on with 5 previous owners.
So are you suggesting I am a liar when I say that the Honda dealer was not in the least bit interested how many garages had passed it between them before dad bought it. As far as they were concerned traders did not matter to them, all that mattered was dad was the only private owner/user.
But even if they did have an issue the discount he got when he bought it would more than have offset any lowering of its value. He got about £4000 off, he got £2800 in PX when it was almost 7 years old. They put it on the forecourt at a very high £4200, no idea what they got.
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I think he was implying that it was crazy for the dealers to do that, decreasing the value of the car.
One issue for pre-reg cars is that the manufacturers guarantee has been ticking so there is a loss in value there.
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Am I right in thinking the OP has changed his screen name?
Yes.
I think he's changed his name because Avant called him out by name, with a comment of :
If you've nothing sensible to say, Auto Steve, then don't say anything at all.
This way he can pretend that Avant was talking to someone else.
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One issue for pre-reg cars is that the manufacturers guarantee has been ticking so there is a loss in value there.
Not an issue when you save thousands but it is an issue if a brand new car via a broker is no more expensive.
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Am I right in thinking the OP has changed his screen name?
Yes.
I think he's changed his name because Avant called him out by name, with a comment of :
If you've nothing sensible to say, Auto Steve, then don't say anything at all.
This way he can pretend that Avant was talking to someone else.
No. I changed it to avoid having any conversations with people like you RobJP.
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Am I right in thinking the OP has changed his screen name?
Yes.
I think he's changed his name because Avant called him out by name, with a comment of :
If you've nothing sensible to say, Auto Steve, then don't say anything at all.
This way he can pretend that Avant was talking to someone else.
No. I changed it to avoid having any conversations with people like you RobJP.
Utter failure in that case. In addition to the Subaru Forester, we've got 2 BMWs. A 2015 Z4 20Si, and a 2013 325d Touring. All 3 privately owned.
We've had 3 series (saloon, estate and coupe), 5 series (estate), X3, X5, Z3, first-gen Z4 convertible, Z4 Coupe (the really gorgeous one) - all told probably 15 BMWs over the years.
Never had a proper M car yet, though I have been tempted in the past. A previous generation M3 saloon (the one with the V8 engine). But when push came to shove, I decided I'd have resented the 20mpg and constant filling with petrol.
That 'BMW enthusiast' enough for you ?
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Utter failure in that case. In addition to the Subaru Forester, we've got 2 BMWs. A 2015 Z4 20Si, and a 2013 325d Touring. All 3 privately owned.
We've had 3 series (saloon, estate and coupe), 5 series (estate), X3, X5, Z3, first-gen Z4 convertible, Z4 Coupe (the really gorgeous one) - all told probably 15 BMWs over the years.
Never had a proper M car yet, though I have been tempted in the past. A previous generation M3 saloon (the one with the V8 engine). But when push came to shove, I decided I'd have resented the 20mpg and constant filling with petrol.
That 'BMW enthusiast' enough for you ?
Nice. Fair play to you.
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I think he was implying that it was crazy for the dealers to do that, decreasing the value of the car.
Yes that's what I meant.
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That's absolutely crazy. It wouldn't be easy to sell on with 5 previous owners.
So are you suggesting I am a liar when I say that the Honda dealer was not in the least bit interested how many garages had passed it between them before dad bought it.
Not at all. You have misinterpreted my comment.
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The dealer can't advertise them as 'new' even though, for all intents and purposes, they are, but if they advertise the car as 'used' or '2nd hand', many potential buyers wouldn't even look.
Why should the dealer advertise them as used or 2nd hand. They have been no more used than a new car but since they have a previous name on the V5C they obviously cannot be sold as new.
A few examples.
Dad bought a pre-reg Almera in Feb 1997. It had just reached the end of its 6 month embargo along with dozens of identical cars at the dealers. All consecutive reg numbers form the north east and a mixture of Primera and Almera. Real bargains, chaper than year old used cars on the same lot. When he got the V5 he was the 5th name. Registered to Nissana dn than moved between 3 other dealers. But the car had only done 8 miles and when he evetually traded it the dealer was not interested other than dad being the first private owner.
Bought a Puma from Motorpoint. German import pre -registered. 10 miles on the clock. Bargain.
When we got the Leon was brand new and registered to us after the finance application had cleared. It had 40 miles on the clock thus was probably more used than the 2 pre-reg cars above.
All 3 cars were sold correctly. Pre-reg is a term used for well over 20 years now and why some don't understand it is beyond me. I blame Mrs Thatcher and her education cutbacks.
If you'd been reading from the start of the thread that the OP suggests pre-reg cars be advertised as 2nd hand, as that is, in his opinion (not mine) what they are.
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I bought my Mondeo in 2009 pre reg.It was 4 months old and had 65 miles on the clock.I got £9500 off list price.I still have it today and it's been a good un.
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What is far worse are cars that are passed off as "Brand New", but have actually been sitting around in a disused airfield or some dockside somewhere for 6 months or more.
It would make far more sense if all cars were ''Pre Reg" with a registration number allocated at the date of manufacture.
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If you'd been reading from the start of the thread that the OP suggests pre-reg cars be advertised as 2nd hand, as that is, in his opinion (not mine) what they are.
Yes I had read form the start of the thread but since I am not particularly bothered about the OP's opinion I wrote about our experience which have all been good.
But regarding the OP's opinion I cannot understand what he finds so difficult to understand about the difference btween the commonly used terms, "New", "Pre Reg", "Used", etc. The one term that is open to abuse is surely "2nd Hand". This term is commonly used for cars with many owners but to some would possibly indicate the buyer or seller would be the 2nd owner.
In my youth the term "Pre Reg" did not exist since such cars were not on the market. The first one we had in the family was dads Almera in 97 and despite the fact the desription was new to us it was obvious enough what it meant and easy enough to understand. To break it down into simple English its an abreviation for "Previously Registered". Is that clear enough.
But not all Pre Reg cars are bargains. When we bought a Micra in 2005 we found a deal on the internet for brand new 1.2 S Micras (including metallic paint) for £6300 on the road, a 29% discount. It was September and they would be registered on a 55 plate with the buyer as the first owner. By chance the dealer was only 15 miles away so we went down to finalise the deal and as we parked spotted a row of 05 plate Micras with "Pre Reg" stickers on the screens. I said to the salesman that I would be interested in a pre reg one if the price was right but they wanted £700 more for one than a brand new one. Guess which we bought.
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But not all Pre Reg cars are bargains.
Too right they aren't.
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But not all Pre Reg cars are bargains.
Too right they aren't.
OK, I think we get the point .... you don't like the idea of pre -reg cars. It's obviously a bit of a bugbear with your goodself. We all have pet hates and our own preconceived notions.... rightly or wrongly.
Me, I don't warm towards BMWs and drivers of said cars who seem to think that non BMW drivers should doff their cap and feign deference towards them.
I seem to find if there's a car up my ass checking that my rear wiper blade is in good condition when I have the temerity to venture into the outside lane of a dual carriageway or, heaven forfend, lane three of a motorway, it's very often a BMW urging me to get out of his way due to their greater importance..... noticeably more so than other, more humble, means of transport.
There's absolutely nothing about ownership of a BMW that endears me to them, or, in fact, any aspect of the whole BMW "thing". I ventured into a BMW showroom once. Strangely I never returned.
I'm even less keen when drivers of the said marque seem to want to drop the fact that they drive a BMW into polite conversation at every opportunity. Whether or not it's supposed to garner admiration or awe I'm not sure. Often mere mortals have it drilled into them that the aforesaid driver owns this or that model with the engine size and details of the spec. and performance and what a lovely motor car it is and how superior it is over more modest wheels. Other times the poor recipient of the diatribe is subject to casually dropped in reminders that they'll get the 'Beemer' out and go here ot there in the 'Beemer' or describe how many admiring glances at their 'Beemer' they apparently receive
Well, as I say, we all have out strange little predilictions and quirks. Yours happens to be 'pre-reg' cars. And mine .........well you'll have to try and guess :-)
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OK, I think we get the point .... you don't like the idea of pre -reg cars. It's obviously a bit of a bugbear with your goodself. We all have pet hates and our own preconceived notions.... rightly or wrongly.
Me, I don't warm towards BMWs and drivers of said cars who seem to think that non BMW drivers should doff their cap and feign deference towards them.
I seem to find if there's a car up my ass checking that my rear wiper blade is in good condition when I have the temerity to venture into the outside lane of a dual carriageway or, heaven forfend, lane three of a motorway, it's very often a BMW urging me to get out of his way due to their greater importance..... noticeably more so than other, more humble, means of transport.
There's absolutely nothing about ownership of a BMW that endears me to them, or, in fact, any aspect of the whole BMW "thing". I ventured into a BMW showroom once. Strangely I never returned.
I'm even less keen when drivers of the said marque seem to want to drop the fact that they drive a BMW into polite conversation at every opportunity. Whether or not it's supposed to garner admiration or awe I'm not sure. Often mere mortals have it drilled into them that the aforesaid driver owns this or that model with the engine size and details of the spec. and performance and what a lovely motor car it is and how superior it is over more modest wheels. Other times the poor recipient of the diatribe is subject to casually dropped in reminders that they'll get the 'Beemer' out and go here ot there in the 'Beemer' or describe how many admiring glances at their 'Beemer' they apparently receive
Well, as I say, we all have out strange little predilictions and quirks. Yours happens to be 'pre-reg' cars. And mine .........well you'll have to try and guess :-)
Reading that actually made me laugh out loud!
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Same thing happened to me when I was looking to by a car in late 2005 - the lowest any Mazda dealer went to was £12k (list price around £13k or so) for a Mazda3 1.6 TS 4dr (new - would be ordered so I'd have to wait up to 3 months); the brokers could do the same car for £11.4k. Motorpoint were selling effectively pre-reg 1.6 TS2s (next model up) sourced from Cyprus (RHD) for £10.2k - all they were was unused rental cars with only 15 del miles on the clock.
Who cares how many owners it had (one previous one on the V5C), as it was only built in Oct 2005 and I was looking at buying it in early Jan 2006. It was as new (confirmed in person) and I snapped it up (it was also in the colour and trim style I wanted as well) the same day and picked it up a week later, PXing my old Micra with them at the same time. The huge discount paid for some very nice optional extras and I still had over £500 left over from the broker's price, and got a better equipped car (including climate control - nice!) to boot!
Still going strong 12 years later. I would only worry about the number of owners if it had been passed around after a few thousand miles for each one, as that would indicate some significant design flaw that couldn't be rectified (yet or at all), or some element of the car that the owners couldn't live with, e.g. overly firm ride.
Similarly I'd be wary of cars, even ultra low 'delivery' mileage or ex-demo cars that had been sitting outside (unused) in all weathers for many months, as they might need to have their brakes refurbished and maybe even an engine reconditioned in some extreme cases.
I chickened out of buying such a car last year - Motorpoint were selling a presumably ex-demo Scirocco 2.0 TSI 180 GT (from a main dealer?) with only 900 miles on the clock, for £17k. The possible issues with that engine's timing chains (rattling and knock on issues) and it being registered 9 months before gave me second thoughts - it may have been fine.
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