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What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Hi all.

New to the forum and have a dilemma.

I currently own a 2015 plate Nissan Qashqai 1.5 dci and its coming to the end of its finance ageement in June 2018 and I will be handing it back. To be honest it’s a nice car to drive but with endless problems I have had with it well I don’t want it.
I have two kids and normally Work journey is a 14 mile 30-45 minute stop start traffic with a top speed of 40mph.

I am looking at an estate car next as I am 6ft4” and need the boost space for kids, shopping and holidays etc...

I have narrowed it down to the Skoda Octavia Estate as it supports my height and has good room all round. My dilemma is I want a automatic next as the stop start weekly driving is killing my clutch foot.

Do I pick a 1.5 tsi petrol DSG or a 1.6 or 2.0 tsi DSG, not sure as the car size says diesel but my driving warrants a petrol. I don’t think I am getting the benefits of the diesel as my highest mpg during the week is 43mpg.

Oh one last thing, I only have £20k max to spend and preferably like a 1 year old car with warranty left, oh and the car needs rear air vents for the kids.

Any help would be most grateful?

Thanks

Paul
What fuel next - badbusdriver

If you were planning to purchase new and get rid of it before the warranty was up, i'd say go right ahead with the 1.5tsi. But, automated dual cluch gearboxes, from any manufacturer, don't have a great reputation for reliability. So in your case, assuming you plan to actually buy this car, and want to keep it for more than a couple of years, i'd be looking for something else. If it has to be automatic, something with either a torque converter auto, or a cvt (such as a hybrid of some kind).

What fuel next - SLO76
As BBD has already mentioned VAG’s DSG gearbox has a rather poor reputation for longevity. It is however a good thing in operation with smooth changes and no detrimental effect on economy or performance plus the latest TSi engines are excellent, the 1.5 would be more than ample after your Renault (sorry Nissan) Qashqai 1.5dci.

If you intend on offloading before the warranty is up or plan on extending the term then there’s no reason not to buy one however, if you want to keep longterm I’d look elsewhere or buy a manual.


These gearboxes are horrendously complex and massively expensive to repair or replace if or rather when something does go wrong. Most manufacturers are moving away from these automated manuals as none (not even Honda or Toyota) can make it ultimately reliable over 5yrs plus, it’s just too complex. Strange thing is that Truck, Bus and agricultual manufacturers have been building them for years without any such problem. Some of the coaches we run have well over a million miles up and use an automated manual box. They’re a bit ponderous but otherwise robust. Must be a cost/weight issue on cars.

The Toyota Auris is available as an Estate with the hybrid Powertrain which is reliable and smooth if you drive gently. It doesn’t really suit motorway pounding however. Honda’s latest Civic isn’t an estate but the boot is huge and it’s also available with a CVT box that should be reliable.

Edited by SLO76 on 28/02/2018 at 09:37

What fuel next - colinh

Check out a used Toyota Auris Touring hybrid - petrol, and automatic - and should easily beat 42 mpg. The 6' 4" may be a problem.

What fuel next - badbusdriver

Check out the kia niro, which is a hybrid SUV. They do have a dual clutch auto, and i know i advised against getting one, but for your budget you can get a nearly new example with most of the 7 year warranty remaining. Here is a 1k miles example on autotrader (and yes, i checked on photo's of other examples, it does have rear vents!)

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171206184...1

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
I have had a look and the boot is smaller than mine now.

I’d love a hybrid but they all seem expensive.

Regards

Paul
What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Having looked at Honest Johns best gearboxes

Honda, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar and Land Rover.

There are three that fit the purpose.

2016 Honda CRV 1.6 D Auto
Mercedes Benz B Class
BMW 2 series Active tourer

Mazda have too bigger engines and no economical petrols.
Jaguar only do saloons
Land Rover are no where near my price bracket.

Alternatively I buy a 1 year old Kia Optima estate diesel auto and keep it for 5-6 years.

Regards

Paul
What fuel next - badbusdriver
Having looked at Honest Johns best gearboxes Honda, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar and Land Rover. There are three that fit the purpose. 2016 Honda CRV 1.6 D Auto Mercedes Benz B Class BMW 2 series Active tourer Mazda have too bigger engines and no economical petrols. Jaguar only do saloons Land Rover are no where near my price bracket. Alternatively I buy a 1 year old Kia Optima estate diesel auto and keep it for 5-6 years. Regards Paul

"Jaguar only do saloons"

There are currently 28 jaguar XF estate's on autotrader under £20k and with up to 30k miles. Here is one, a 2015 example with under 17k miles.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20171010015...1

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Problem is I am looking to keep the car long-term do the Jaguar would be too expensive with services costs, insurances and tax etc...

Don’t think the 2.2d in stop/start traffic is any good.

Think a Kia is the way to go, especially as it has a 7 year warranty:
Also there’s a pick between the Kia Carens, Sportage & Optima Estate.

Regards

Paul
What fuel next - Engineer Andy

Paul - Mazda's current crop of petrol engined cars are N/A (normally-aspirated - no turbos) lean burn engines, and as such are reasonably comparable in real world driving - check the 'Real mpg' section. Realistically only the VAG TSi petrol engines get the closest to their claimed (unrealistic EU test) mpg figures - those for, say, Ford's Ecoboost engines are much lower.

Comparision of engine performance and mpg (approximately)

Mazda high powered 1.5 petrol (115hp Sport in the 2) = VAG 110hp 1.0/1.2 TSi

Mazda std 2.0 petrol (120hp in the 3/CX-3 & 145hp in the 6) = VAG 110hp 1.0/1.2 TSi (Golf sized cars) and 120hp 1.4 TSi (larger cars)

Mazda high powered 2.0 petrol (165hp Sport in the 3/all in the CX-5) = VAG 150hp 1.4/1.5 TSi

The VAG TSi engines are about 5-7% better on ave. on mpg than the Mazda 'equivalent' performance engines and are a bit more peppy on mid-range acceleration, but in the Mazdas favour they (petrol engines) don't have a turbo (to be fair, most VAG petrol turbos for their lower powered engines seem to be quite reliable) but more importantly are ALL chain-cam driven, so no costs for belt replacements, and will be more reliable long-term if kept well-oiled in line with the manufacturer's guidelines (12.5k miles/1 year [whichever is achieved first). Bear in mind that the KIA big cars won't be any more fuel efficient than the Mazda equivalents, maybe less so if they have their older spec N/A engines. The KIA/Hyundai 7/5yr warranty is well regarded though.

The VAG 1.4/1.5 150hp engine is very well regarded (not the 'old' turbo and supercharged version though) and generally commands a price premium. For me, its the rest of the VAG engineering and customer service that, to varying degrees, has put me off buying one as yet.

Lots to weigh up I think. Best to make a list of 'must haves', minimum specs and performance (be as realistic as possible) and check out other factors that are important via the reviews, including user reviews and the 'Good & Bad' section of each car's review - they can give a flavour of issues that can never be picked up on a brand new car's media review test drive.

Also bear in mind how long you intend to keep the car and check out the local dealers, including reviews of them, some on this website in the Good Garage guide section:

good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/

...and on other websites. You may find a local dealer isn't well regarded, and may put you off buying a new/nearly new car if the next nearest dealership is too far away/not near work, etc.

I had a similar problem as you finding a decent small to mid family sized TC (non-DSG type) auto car, and nothing really stood out as great, so (and for other reasons), I stuck with the Mazda3 1.6 petrol manual I've owned since new for (now) 12 years. Like I did, do as much research/get good advice as you can and don't rush the search - you may have to compromise to some degree, especially on the performance/mpg side if you don't want the risk of a potentially less reliable DSG type auto box.

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Yeh whenever I start looking at a new car I do an excel spreadsheet based on mpg, performance, insurance costs and even boot size and overall dimensions because in this instance it needs to fit on my drive behind double gates.

It’s good to see what I have now with what I can afford to run etc...

My only gripe now is the commuting in stop start traffic hence the want for an automatic.

Not fussed about fuel as long as it’s efficient and cheapest to run.

It sounds like all the best autos are in the more expensive cars and as much as I would love a Jaguar or BMW or Mercedes I have to think about whats more important.

I have growing kids with two cars on one wage, so as long as I can commute efficiently and comfortably, use it in the weekend with the kids and the odd holiday @ 1000 miles a year then that’s fine.

Regards

Paul

What fuel next - Engineer Andy

Bear in mind Paul that any savings you may make by buying a more expensive car that's more efficient (e.g. a VAG with the 1.4/1.5 TSi 150hp engine and DSG auto box) can easily be outweighed over a 3, 5 or even 10 year ownership period by buying a far cheaper car that's more reliable, but has less 'street cred' and has lower servicing, ordinary maintenance and insurance costs.

Whilst some more expensive 'premium' cars are reasonably reliable, many are not as much as the mid-priced oriental cars, because they often come with a whole plethora of gizmos (often that the owner never or rarely uses [or needs to]), and, as you say, if you look at the cost of replacement parts, they are extortionate. A £40 - 50k car still costs in that same bracket to run even when its worth less than half that, in fact it'll cost more to run as the first couple of (normally reliable) years would have already passed.

A set of tyres on such cars might only last a year or two tops and cost £600+ to replace; the suspension does far more work than a more 'standard' car with higher profile tyres and smaller wheels, so replacements of those (more expensive) parts would likely be needed more often too.

I share your frustration at the lack of reliable petrol TC (or decent CVT) autos on the market - many of the previous generation of cars that would've been suitable as they have TC auto boxes are realistically too old to be considered to be reliable transport over the long term, unless their history can be absolutely assured (difficult).

Its a shame the Mazda5 didn't come with an auto option at all, as that probably would've suited quite nicely for 2 adults + 2 kids and a reasonable 425 ltr (seats/parcel shelf in place).

If you're still leaning towards/accepting the 'risks' (such as they are) of a DSG auto box for the Octavia etc, you may also want to consider (as well as those others I suggested yesterday) a SEAT Leon ST (estate) or Ateca, both which come with decent 1.0/1.2/1.4/1.5 TSi options and are very roomy in the boot.

One thing to check though is whether they have or can come (at all) with a spare wheel (even a space-saver), it the HJ review of the Ateca says that is doesn't come as standard, but only costs £91 extra, not a bad price considering Mazda charge nearly £400 for the same in their cars! I ceryainly would never trust the 'tube of goo only' option which many newer cars come with as standard, even if that means buying one at the dealership (say) if a second-hand car hasn't got one.

The annoying thing is that if you did have to replace the tyre when out and about with a full car of people and luggage, the boot well isn't large enough to accommodate the full size tyre in most cases to replace the space-saver. Very few cars nowadays come with a full size spare wheel and tyre, though if memory serves, some VAGs and KIAs/Hyundais do, so worth checking that out if its important to you.

Keep plugging away - you'll eventually find something that suits. I stopped looking partly as my criteria were far more picky than yours are.

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
I think a horse and cart might be the answer then.
What fuel next - Engineer Andy
I think a horse and cart might be the answer then.

Unfortunately they don't come with auto gearboxes or air-con. I've heard many (carts) suffer from body rot only after a few years. At least (well, in certain countries at least) the 'motive power' can be used for food when it no longer works. Difficult to source fuel in towns too, and requires a bigger garage than most cars....

:-) he he

Its just a case of finding out all the details about all those cars, which will require some time, especially as (even on this site) whether a car has a TC, DCT/DSG or CVT auto box, etc etc isn't always given in the car/sub-model's details. Just like British Rail (as was), you'll get there in the end!

What fuel next - Avant

And horses eat for hours at their owner's expense, whereas cars only use fuel when they're working for you.

There's nothing that a horse can do that a car can't do better, except jump a fence. And I've never wanted to jump a fence.

What fuel next - sandy56

My last auto was a Peugeot 2L diesel and that was a very good 6speed gearbox. My current car is a Honda diesel 5speed auto, which is good but the Peugeot was better.

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Sorry don’t like anything french.

Have a had a Citroen, Renault and Peugeot and wouldn’t have one again no matter how cheap it is.

None of them were in the same category I am looking at but.

Saying that though I thought a Nissan would be reliable but look at the car I have owned and it’s even s***e in the snow.

If I do buy another SUV I would make sure it’s a 4 wheel drive otherwise what’s the point in having a jumped up hatchback for an extra £5k.

I am gonna test drive a Honda CRV 1.6 auto and a Kia Optima auto diesel.

Then see what’s worth it.

What fuel next - badbusdriver
Problem is I am looking to keep the car long-term do the Jaguar would be too expensive with services costs, insurances and tax etc... Don’t think the 2.2d in stop/start traffic is any good. Think a Kia is the way to go, especially as it has a 7 year warranty: Also there’s a pick between the Kia Carens, Sportage & Optima Estate. Regards Paul

That may well be the case, but the point was, jaguar DO make estates. As for whether or not a 2.2 diesel would be better or worse in stop/start driving?. Unless you have relevant information supporting that to be the case, i wouldn't assume a big engine would be better than a small one. For example, i recently had to change my van and one of the options i was thinking about was one of a number of small vans fitted with the 1248cc fiat diesel. But i was told that one of the problems with this engine is that it does not like stop/start driving. And that for such use the 1.6 or 2.0 fiat diesel would be better. Though for the record, i ended up getting a 2.0SDI caddy (non turbo).

But for the peace of mind the warranty gives, the kia probably would be the better bet.

What fuel next - V4 Heaven
Can I be nosey and ask what endless problems you've had as a car of this type was a consideration for me?

Thanks.
What fuel next - SLO76
Google is your friend here. A morning spent researching VW DSG or Ford Powershift gearbox failures will soon put you off. I’ve avoided them as a trader but I know plenty of dealers and friends who’ve had hugely expensive trouble with them, including one who bought an Audi TT that ended up suffering gearbox failure at less than 60,000 miles and landing him a £6,000 bill.

I’ve stood at many an auction and witnessed DSG and Powershift equipped cars go through with little interest and well behind book bidding as the trade are fully aware of the risks. The taxi trade are also full of stories of woe with them too. Yes you will find people who’ve had no trouble but the failure rate is far too high to have any confidence in it beyond the warranty termination. Even at that you’ll find dealers bidding under book for it as a part ex at the other end too.

Most manufacturers are returning to ordinary torque converter boxes and CVT’s both of which have largely been perfected these days. With Toyota’s CVT in particular very longlived.

Edited by SLO76 on 28/02/2018 at 13:03

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
Yeh sure.

I have had two new batteries as the car doesn’t seem to want to start.

The key fob doesn’t get recognised so on occasion I can’t start it.

Nissan recommended that so put the key closer to the start button, but unless you want to hang it round your neck what’s the point, if I put the fob next to the start thenI might aswell have a key to start it instead.

I know the chap from the RAC regularly now as I can’t move the car off the drive when it doesn’t start.

Then the parking sensors seem to go off randomly when u are sitting in traffic.

To be honest though it one of the best cars I have driven, the gearbox is smooth and ride is perfect.

If it wasn’t for these problems I would keep it, but I want an automatic and have a growing family so needs must.

Regards

Paul
What fuel next - Engineer Andy

Might be worth looking at the Suzuki Vitara 1.4T petrol - whether the auto version has a dual clutch gearbox (DSG/DCT) or standard torque converter (TC) one seems to be a matter of debate (I'm not sure) - and is on another (relatively recent) thread on the forum (do a search using the tool on the main Back Room page). If that doesn't give you any definite answer, then email Honest John and he can find out for you if you can't get a definitive answer from Suzuki.

I would also check with them (or any car you're considering with a turbo), if you do any large load carrying or towing of any kind, what the weight limit is and, for such trips (or up steep hills and on longer journeys, e.g. going on holiday) the procedure for cooling down the turbo when you stop the engine - not as bad as for 'big turbo' cars (Subarus etc), but is worth doing when the engine is worked hard to not ruin the oil and the turbo. Often just requires 30-60 sec of idling the engine at the destination in such circumstances.

The car itself is a one HJ highly recommends (see the reviews section) and is a similar shaped and sized replacement for your Qashqai with none of the drawbacks of running a diesel on short/slow-moving journeys (not good for DPF regens) and (IMO) partially/fully Renault-engineered cars (even with a Nissan badge).

I have no idea whether the headroom would be enough for a taller person such as yourself though - best to check it out (and obviously any other car that makes your shortlist) yourself first. Worth also bringing the sort of items you and your family take on holiday (suitcases [they don't have to be full], etc) to see whether such cars meet your boot storage needs. The auto option (especially if you want to avoid problems with dual clutch units) rather limits you on the medium sized MPVs.

The Octavia would certainly fit the bill as regards space and (with the 1.4/1.5TSi engine) performance, but having the DSG auto box could be an issue, more if you are going to keep it longer than the warranty (most, though not all, 'bad' reliability issues with them seem to appear after that), but some people find the box does hesistate when moving off from a standstill, not especially good when trying to move into fast-moving traffic.

I would also sumise (my opinion only) that if you towed with such a gearbox on a regular basis, that problems would come sooner than if you didn't, as it put more strain on the gearbox, as does mainly using it in heavy traffic, as it slips the clutch like a manual (sometimes more so, especially when creeping forward at walking pace) and wears more quickly as a result, far more so than, in my opinion, a TC box. CVT auto boxes from makes other than Nissan/Renault (which seem to have reliability problems) will probably be fine as well, though perhaps not so good if you do any towing.

Not so many options at the moment if you need a larger estate car with a petrol engine and an (non-DSG) auto box that is reasonably fuel efficient, and not overly expensive. This might improve down the line as petrol-engine (or hybrid) cars become more popular again, but that doesn't help you at the moment. Have you considered larger cars in hatch or saloon form (better in hatch form for the larger, more useful boot opening) - this would give you a larger number of cars on the 'possibles' list.

What fuel next - Paul Cliff
There are two estates that I like the look of which fit my needs.

New Hyundai I30 tourer 1.4T DCT (auto)
Renault Megane Sport Tourer in 1.2 or 1.6 TCE form (auto)

The problem is with most hatches, the boots are smaller than mine now.

There are two but it’s either a Skoda Octavia or Skoda Superb.

Don’t want a saloon cos of they small boot opening.

So I’d like the versatility of having an estate boot for holidays, weekends with kids and going to the tip etc...

The problem is being my height I have to put every seat on the back notch thus reducing the space behind. I even sat in my dads Jaguar XF and the seat needs to be far back.

Regards

Paul

What fuel next - Engineer Andy
There are two estates that I like the look of which fit my needs. New Hyundai I30 tourer 1.4T DCT (auto) Renault Megane Sport Tourer in 1.2 or 1.6 TCE form (auto) The problem is with most hatches, the boots are smaller than mine now. There are two but it’s either a Skoda Octavia or Skoda Superb. Don’t want a saloon cos of they small boot opening. So I’d like the versatility of having an estate boot for holidays, weekends with kids and going to the tip etc... The problem is being my height I have to put every seat on the back notch thus reducing the space behind. I even sat in my dads Jaguar XF and the seat needs to be far back. Regards Paul

I thought that might be the case as reagrds the smaller boot opening of saloons - I have a Mazda3 saloon, and whilst its boot is large [405 ltr] than the hatch [~350 ltr], the opening is half the size [depth] so its difficult to fit large, cube-shaped boxes in, though suitcases and golf stuff fits in quite nicely in mine.

You may wish to consider (if you want to take the risk of getting a VAG-made DGS auto box) the Skoda Rapid (or equivalent SEAT Toledo) - its a bit more 'downlarket' in interior materials and not quite as wide as the Octavia, but it still has a really big boot - bigger in the hatch (550 ltr) than the 'estate' (Spaceback, 415 ltr) and comes in 1.4TSi DSG form (quicker/more powerful @ 125hp) than the 1.0TSi DSG (only in 95hp form) for the latter.

The Fabia also is available in estate form with the 1 ltr engine with a 505 ltr boot but is a bit quicker than the 1.0 Rapid as its overall a bit smaller and is available in the 110hp version for the DSG. Perhaps both worth a look if you hadn't already, especially as the Rapid/Toledo often comes with better discounts than others in the range to add to their already lower price (than many similar-sized cars). Check the new/used (often nearly new up to 2yo) deals on this website - new offers from brokers between 20-25% are the norm at around the £13-15k mark.

You may be able to source a great deal at the moment (at any make's dealership) as the March 1st reg change is due tomorrow and many showroom/ex-demo cars will be flooding the market at greatly reduced prices to pep up the dealerships sales figures, even playing them off against the broker prices.

What fuel next - Avant

I had three Octavia vRS estates, one of which had DSG. I beileve that all VW Group 2.0 TSIs (and TDIs for that matter) are fitted with the wet-clutch DSG, whereas the lower-capacity engines have the dry-clutch version.

For some reason too technical for me, the wet-clutch DSG seems to be much more reliable than the dry-clutch. So you should find a newish Octavia vRS which should do you well.

Alternatively look at the Mazda 6 estate (2.0 petrol - don't go near the diesel) or possibly the Honda Civic Tourer if it's bg enough. Try the Honda CRV if it isn't. A Volvo XC60 also has a torque-converter auto box but petrol versions are hard to find.

What fuel next - Engineer Andy

I had three Octavia vRS estates, one of which had DSG. I beileve that all VW Group 2.0 TSIs (and TDIs for that matter) are fitted with the wet-clutch DSG, whereas the lower-capacity engines have the dry-clutch version.

For some reason too technical for me, the wet-clutch DSG seems to be much more reliable than the dry-clutch. So you should find a newish Octavia vRS which should do you well.

Alternatively look at the Mazda 6 estate (2.0 petrol - don't go near the diesel) or possibly the Honda Civic Tourer if it's bg enough. Try the Honda CRV if it isn't. A Volvo XC60 also has a torque-converter auto box but petrol versions are hard to find.

No auto for the current model Mazda 6 (or CX-5) for the petrol-engined cars, only on the diesel, which, like you, would not recommend. Whether its they don't get enough sales of that combo, lower performance or its done avoid the corporate fines for breaching the EU's average CO2 across all their cars sold, I don't know - either way, its a real shame as the combination of the 2.0 petrol and TC auto box is really smooth, as I found in the CX-3 (which obviously isn't big enough for the OP's needs). Hopefully this will change when the new-fangled HCCI engines come in the next year or two.

The Hondas are a decent option, especially the prev. gen (up to 2017) Civic & Civic Tourer with their huge boots. You just have to get over the (to me at least) very odd rear exterior styling of the Tourer and generally bland interior of them both.

What fuel next - veloceman
Just a thought.
I have always found the clutches in diesel cars very heavy with a long action making them uncomfortable/painful to use for any period of time.
Certainly the clutch in my petrol Leon 1.4tsi is as light as they come needing very little effort at all.
I certainly now don’t have the problems in stop start traffic I used to.
What fuel next - SLO76
Just a thought. I have always found the clutches in diesel cars very heavy with a long action making them uncomfortable/painful to use for any period of time. Certainly the clutch in my petrol Leon 1.4tsi is as light as they come needing very little effort at all. I certainly now don’t have the problems in stop start traffic I used to.

In the past possibly pre 90’s I’d agree to a point but modern diesels aren’t any harder in this regard than petrols with the clutch in our Honda diesel particularly light in operation.
What fuel next - Paul Cliff
To be honest the clutch in my Qashqai is fairly light it’s just the stop/start traffic between 1st and 2nd for about 10 minutes about 3 or 4 times a journey is quite tiresome for even a petrol car.

Having had the snow we had the weekend I could have done with a four wheel drive.

But for the littlest snow we have, my wife’s Yaris is the better car.

I don’t know which car I’ll end up with but I think it needs to be an estate car.
What fuel next - Engineer Andy
To be honest the clutch in my Qashqai is fairly light it’s just the stop/start traffic between 1st and 2nd for about 10 minutes about 3 or 4 times a journey is quite tiresome for even a petrol car. Having had the snow we had the weekend I could have done with a four wheel drive. But for the littlest snow we have, my wife’s Yaris is the better car. I don’t know which car I’ll end up with but I think it needs to be an estate car.

Unless you live in a very rural area with no gritted busy roads which has significant and regular snowfall and ice problems throughout the winter, it'll be far better for you just to get decent quality all-season (55 profile or above) tyres on the car you choose rather than spend several thousands more on 4WD (normally only available on expensive cars or range-topping models you may not need anyway) and lower mpg & higher maintenance/insurance costs that results from owning one.