12 points on licence...carry on driving

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 11:08
12 points on licence...carry on driving - barney100

Apparently over three thousand people have been allowed to keep their licences after accruing 12 points due to personal circumstances...loss of job being one of them. I suppose you can take the 12 points and banned for everyone or allow some people to carry on as it would make a mess of their lives. I hope the powers that be know what they are doing.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 11:20
12 points on licence...carry on driving - craig-pd130

There should be no excuses and no exceptions. Totting up 12 points should mean a ban.

If a person has already been given some penalty points for a conventional offence (speeding, crossing a junction when lights are red, etc etc) then it's a clear warning that they need to drive more carefully - irrespective of their circumstances.

And if they have received points for a more serious offence like DUI or driving recklessly, then it's an even clearer warning.

If a person's driving license is THAT important to them, and they have enough points to put themselves at risk of a ban if they are caught committing another offence, then they need to stop offending.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 12:19
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Galaxy

I agree, there should be no exceptions whatsoever!

What do these people with 12 points think they are for? They're for breaking motoring law and those to whom I'm referring to, in most cases, will have known that they were breaking it.

I'm very surprised they can still get and/or afford their insurance.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 16:36
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Manatee

There are certainly some smug people on here. There's a significant random risk of picking up points even for a careful driver and there will always be cases where a ban will cause exceptional hardship.

No I do not have any points that count for totting at the moment.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 16:46
12 points on licence...carry on driving - craig-pd130

There's a significant random risk of picking up points even for a careful driver and there will always be cases where a ban will cause exceptional hardship.

I agree that even a careful driver could be unlucky and pick up 3 points from a speed / traffic camera: especially with the current trend for reclassifying roads with different speed limits, which can catch people out.

But to get a ban for totting up points, such random risks would have to happen 4 times in 3 years. In which case, it's not 'random', but careless and inattentive driving.

I don't have any points that count for totting up either, nor have I ever had any.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 17:07
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Manatee

>>But to get a ban for totting up points, such random risks would have to happen 4 times in 3 years

Law of large numbers. It is almost certain that it will happen to some people.

Probability seems to be difficult for some people to grasp, especially those who work in law. Ever heard of Sally Clark?

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 17:45
12 points on licence...carry on driving - craig-pd130

Law of large numbers. It is almost certain that it will happen to some people.

Probability seems to be difficult for some people to grasp, especially those who work in law. Ever heard of Sally Clark?

I have - her case was a very sad miscarriage of justice, caused by incompetence in preparing the post-mortem reports on her children, omitting vital details which would have cleared her without any reference to the probabilities of cot death. This was entirely out of her control.

Whether a motoring offence is committed (or not) is entirely within the driver's control.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 21:35
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Bromptonaut

I have - her case was a very sad miscarriage of justice, caused by incompetence in preparing the post-mortem reports on her children, omitting vital details which would have cleared her without any reference to the probabilities of cot death. This was entirely out of her control.

The point was entirely about probability. The paediatrician who gave evidence at her trial may have been an expert on child health but his evidence of the chance of two cot deaths in same family showed a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory of probability.

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Wed 14 Feb 2018 11:14
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Manatee

I don't have any points that count for totting up either, nor have I ever had any.

Have you never had any points at all?

You will.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 17:35
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Andrew-T

There are certainly some smug people on here. There's a significant random risk of picking up points even for a careful driver and there will always be cases where a ban will cause exceptional hardship.

So if it becomes 'normal' to receive leniency by claiming 'exceptional hardship', that almost becomes a licence to drive with less care and attention - which I suggest is not fair on the motoring public. Or all the public for that matter?

Those drivers who might suffer such exceptional hardship should certainly not be allowed to exploit that fact.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 18:00
12 points on licence...carry on driving - skidpan

Some years ago a good friend of mine was on the verge of being banned under the totting up proceedure and he went to court claiming, quite correctly, that without a licence he would be unable to do his job. He was successful and kept his licence.

On his way home he stopped in a layby, no idea why, it was said to speak on his mobile. Whilst parked up a lorry ploughed into the back of the car which caught fire and killed him.

No doubt simple pure bad luck but in theory if he had accepted the ban and lost his job he would still be alive today.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 18:02
12 points on licence...carry on driving - thirts

>>>>>But to get a ban for totting up points, such random risks would have to happen 4 times in 3 years

Well that used to be my view, but I am more sypathetic than I used to be. My wife who had an unblemished driving record for 30 years, got caught out twice on the same road in quick succession, and could well have been caught out more time on the same day on the same stretch of road.

She was an an unfamilier road for her, and the speed limits changed frequently from 50 to 30 to 40 to 50, back to 30 over quite a period and she missed some of the chnages.

She fullt accepts it was her carelessness, but she could have lost her licence in one day, dispite 30 years without any penalties.

I have just gone on the same journey, and because of her experience, I was ultra careful. However I suspect that without her 'experience' it could well have been me who would have got the two speeding tickets - my speeding history isn't as good as my wife, as mine is only 28 years without speeding tickets

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 19:49
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Kekettykek

In my area there is a road between two villages 4 miles apart. You used to leave the 30 limit in one village and it would be national speed limit (60 mph) until the next village.

Now it is 60mph for about a mile, then down to 40 for no apparent reason whatsoever, up to 50 for another mile, then back up to 60 then down to 30. It's not a road known for any major accidents so it's hard not to be cynical about the motives for the change, especially as a camera van regularly parks up just after the limit drops to 40.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 20:49
12 points on licence...carry on driving - madf

In my opinion, toleration of crime encourages it.

Allowing 12 point drivers = toleration..

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 21:18
12 points on licence...carry on driving - RobJP

Some sections of road have been 'reclassified' with so many changes of limit that makes it very difficult to comply with the law - you spend far too much time worrying about the speed limit and whether you're complying with it, to the detriment of other factors of road safety.

For example, the main road from Mold to Wrexham. In a journey of 10 miles, there are 15 (or possibly 16) different speed limits.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 21:27
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Bromptonaut

Do any of us have the details of a sample of cases with 12+ points and still driving?

The law says the courts have discretion in exceptional circumstances. Judges and Magistrates' Clerks are paid well to exercise, or advise on the exercise of discretion.

Unless/until I see details of multiple egregious examples I'm inclined to think the system is boradly working.

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Mon 12 Feb 2018 23:44
12 points on licence...carry on driving - macski

#mce_temp_url# still driving

According to Auto Express 35% of people are allowed to keep driving after getting 12 points.

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Tue 13 Feb 2018 19:21
12 points on licence...carry on driving - barney100

That's a good point, law of averages says you are going to miss one sign sometime...I have to be sure and done the course.

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Tue 13 Feb 2018 20:28
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Smileyman

I suppose having 3 or 6 points and getting stopped for a faulty light and then a faulty tyre is spotted ... unlikely to apply to 3000 motorists but for the one person (theoretically) caught it's a pretty tough cookie to be banned for 12 points.

Nonetheless, if the courts do decide not to ban a 12 point driver they really ought to at least require the motorist to re-sit the driving test. Indeed, I think bad driving in general is a such a big problem that having to take the test again would be a good way to remove some of these traits.

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Wed 14 Feb 2018 10:34
12 points on licence...carry on driving - argybargy

As someone who is borderline obsessive about staying within the speed limit and looking after my tyres and lights, I find this conversation very confusing.

Are our road traffic laws a moveable feast, and should the consequences of breaking them depend on whether you're a "lucky" person or not?

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Wed 14 Feb 2018 10:58
12 points on licence...carry on driving - scot22

Agree completely.

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Wed 14 Feb 2018 13:59
12 points on licence...carry on driving - skidpan

I suppose having 3 or 6 points and getting stopped for a faulty light and then a faulty tyre is spotted ... unlikely to apply to 3000 motorists but for the one person (theoretically) caught it's a pretty tough cookie to be banned for 12 points

If you already have 6 points on your licence and are daft enough to drive round with a faulty car you surely deserve a ban (no points for lights - thought it was a defection rectification paper).

Ain't no cure for stupid.

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Wed 14 Feb 2018 20:39
12 points on licence...carry on driving - Smileyman

I suppose having 3 or 6 points and getting stopped for a faulty light and then a faulty tyre is spotted ... unlikely to apply to 3000 motorists but for the one person (theoretically) caught it's a pretty tough cookie to be banned for 12 points

If you already have 6 points on your licence and are daft enough to drive round with a faulty car you surely deserve a ban (no points for lights - thought it was a defection rectification paper).

Ain't no cure for stupid.

It's a theretical situation, I have a clean licence .... and intend to keep it that way ...

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