Hi all,
My true story is a bizarre one and left me feeling cheated, embarrassed and not sure what to do.
I bought an advertised Rare Audi 2ltr TDI Quattro 2 years ago but I had to get some new tyres being just the front ones, on doing so and taking it to a local tyre fitter I asked why the front tyres were gone before the back ones seeing as it was a Quattro. ( I have never owned an Audi or Quattro before) His reply was that it's normally the back that would go so I asked how I would now if it was a Quattro. ( dealer had told me that some authors are not badged) He said easy we will jack it up and look. To my shock I was told it was not in fact a Quattro!
To make this short, the V5 says that it is a Quattro and further searches online tell me this also.
I have since been back to the dealer where I bought it from where he was actually shocked too but said he didn't jack all his cars up to look to see that they are what they are suppose too.
I have been is contact with citizen advice where they say I have a case as of the soga 1979 but I'm wondering what others out there think.
I have done 20,000 miles in this car and feel ashamed that I never new, I have people telling me I should go back for full refund.
For info I paid £15000 for this car which does say on the invoice A5 2ltr Tdi Quattro. I said to the dealer I would be happy for 12000 on taking my car back and for him to find me a newer A5 Quattro to which he seemed to agree too but not on paper but part of me feels that I should be able to find my own new car.
Any advice or questions would be greatly recieved.
Thanks
Graham
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"... I said to the dealer I would be happy for 12000 on taking my car back and for him to find me a newer A5 Quattro to which he seemed to agree too..."
If you get that to stick it sounds like a good deal to me, though I don't know anything about current values for this sort of car. In effect you'd have been hiring a car for two years/20,000 miles for three grand.
Winning a case for mis-selling after two years sounds sounds a bit unlikely to me. It could be argued you had plenty of time to find out what you'd bought and if you didn't then it obviously didn't matter much anyway. And what would be the outcome? A full refund? - Pretty unlikely, I think, but I'm not a lawyer.
Edited by FP on 01/05/2016 at 17:09
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Thanks for you reply.
Just for my own defence I believed I was driving a Quattro, not ever having owned one before and the documents etc tell me it's Quattro I didn't have any reason not to believe it wasn't , having said that I questioned on buying it the lack of quatrro badges but was told they also come unbadged by the dealer.
Im told part ex it's worth 9500 but if I wanted to buy a real Audi 5 2ltr Quatrro that is same year as mine which is 09 with 66000 miles on it, I would need to have about £12000 to buy one looking on autotrader.
If I'm honest I would like to have the opportunity to drive and own the real car that I believed I had.
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Have you had this lack of AWD confirmed by an Audi dealer or specialist who would know the product? or has the selling dealer had it up on the ramps to check.
I ask because lots of Freelander 1's had failures of the transmission-made-of-cheese and the rear prop's removed in order to keep the thing running, well of a fashion, so i wonder if the car started out as a quattro but the rear drive has been disconnected.
You must be a gentle driver not have promoted any sort of wheelspin (snow/ice especially), or at least triggered some sort of traction control interference during the time the car has been owned, any such lack of grip should raise one's antenna.
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/05/2016 at 17:26
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In reply to gordonbennet
I had the tyres done last Thursday and the car had its mot Friday (same garage that the dealer uses for his cars) The motor services people there confirmed that it was just a fwd. I'm curious also as they have done the cam belt for me and services so would they of known what car it was at the start?
I did ask the, the question and they said no unless they were looking for it.
Just for info I did ring Audi who confirmed from the vin number that it is a fwd not a Quattro and they seemed more concerned that I get the v5 changed to show correct details.
As for driving careful I guess I do but I didn't notice anything really that made me question anything as I don't know what I'm missing with a Quattro.
Actually you just reminded me when I took it out for test drive I remember asking the benefits of a Quattro and was told the handling was better and good for snow and ice, as I came up to a round about he said go round faster to feel it grip, I did and I commented that it felt good so that shows I haven't a clue sadly :(
Edited by Trigger70 on 01/05/2016 at 17:40
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The quattro probably had high CO2 rating than the FWD so you may have been over-paying your VED, and insurance.
Your two years use would have to be deducted from "full refund" under any circumstances - if the figures from the dealer are fair for a buy-back-replacement then go for it - just make sure he's not profiting by a double sale!
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In reply to RT
Yeah I imagined that the insurance was probably more didn't think about the VED.
To be honest a full refund would be great but I appreciate I have used it for 20000 miles so my saying the 12000 part ex if you like would seem fair as if I wanted to buy the real Audi A5 Quattro same year same milage as mine that's the money dealers are selling them for.
My issue is that I'm trusting him again to find me a Audi A5 but more money as I was thinking about changing it though wasn't until next April so having to do this now I feel rushed and stuck with what he may find.
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After 2 years, I think you have no legal redress whatsoever with the selling dealer under SOGA. It's something you just have to put down to experience I'm afraid. If you take this attitude and you do get some sort of help or comeback, then it'll be a huge bonus.
You seem to be under the impression that the A5 2.0 TDi Quattro is a rare beast, but as of today there are over 250 for sale on Autotrader. It may be worthwile taking along someone more experienced when you choose your next car.
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In reply to 72 dudes
With all respect the car was advertised as a rare example when I purchased this, any belief I had in this was from the dealer, perhaps that is my mistake. I had never bought a car for that amount of money before and guess I fell in love with the car and believed all that was told to me by the dealer.
Interesting as you say no redress with the SOGA as the guys at citizen advise seem to differ, in fact they were saying i have or would have 6yrs where I can make a claim. They were also that interested they want to pass this on to trading standards.
Funny because it's like what your saying is, if I'm dumb enough to fall for what's advertised and never new different until it was pointed out even though I have all documents to say it is what it isn't I should just live with it and put it down to my mistake and the dealer had no role in this whatsoever.
I guess never believe any legal documents, never trust a car dealer and don't buy things you don't know anything about...
Also if I knew a lot about cars I would buy private so going to a dealer where they do or should know about cars is why I choose to buy from them and unfortunately trust what they are selling is what it is supposed to be at the least.
Edited by Trigger70 on 01/05/2016 at 19:40
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I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but if you had it for a couple of years without knowing it wasn't a Quattro, then you were probably happy in driving around in something you thought was a Quattro?
You may have been overpaying the VED, but that can probably be offset in the fuel saving of not having 4WD.
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in reply to bathtub tom
I also had paid Quattro price for it.
Yes I have been driving happy in it for the time I have had it but does that make it right to be mis sold.
I need to make it clear I am not someone who slips in a supermarket or spills McDonald's hot drinks on myself and Sue for everything I can get but just someone who wants to feel protected from a mis sold product.
I have driven that car for 2yrs and yes was happy with it but really disappointed to find out out it wasn't what I paid for along with insurance and VED. why should the dealer get away with that and I believe that is why soga is in place to combat any wrong doings.
I would love the chance to drive the quattro version as I believed I was and I believe the dealer stole that option from me perhaps unintentionally but he is after all the professional and should know what he is selling.
As I stated earlier if I wanted to buy the audi a5 2ltr tdi quattro, looking on autotrader I would need about £12000 for this car is based on the same year as mine and same mileage, however I'm happy to pay more for one and believe that saying to the dealer I want this amount as part ex for my car is justified. My issue is I'm forced now into buying from him and relying on his choice and again trusting him.
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If you do agree a deal with the original dealer, make sure the price to change is favourable to you (not focussing too much on the £12k when he's loading the new one by £4k)...maybe try another couple of dealers for a similar swap to compare what favours he's doing you or not.
Don't be too hard on yourself, not many people slip a bolier suit on and crawl underneath cars to inspect them closely...i get some odd looks when the very first parts of the car i look at are the tyres/wheel/brake discs and then slide underneath..:-)
A Quattro should behave like a Subaru, you should be able to take off full power wet slippery road at near enough full lock on a junction or roundabout without the car breaking traction for even a moment.
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/05/2016 at 21:35
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If it says Quattro on the V5 then it was almost certainly registered like that from new and no doubt the selling dealer bought it in as a Quattro and sold it as a Quattro.
In all honesty, all you can claim for is financial loss. The financial loss is, frankly, negligible over 2 years - maybe £500 or so comparing the value then and now between the two versions - so is it really worth it?
The mistake was made by whoever originally registered the car - quite possibly Audi UK.
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The 6 year period is the standard limitation period for claiming damages in a civil court. I would have thought it unlikely that you could reject the car at this stage but it may be possible - the downside is that you would be outside the small claims court limit so it would be potentially costly if you lost in court. The best solution if you are happy with the car would be to request the garage oay you the difference in cost to buy of a Quattro compared with a 2WD on the day of purchase plus interest and get the VED and insurance position sorted out. The difference in value could bring it into the realm of the small claims court which would be beneficial for you.
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Hope not BUT could it be
A stolen 2wd car" ringer" masquerading as a quattro!
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Hope not BUT could it be
A stolen 2wd car" ringer" masquerading as a quattro!
That was my thought too.
A possibility (at some time in the past) : The original quattro car written off in an accident, the VIN plates, etc. transferred over to a 2WD car of identical colour, similar spec, etc which has been stolen specifically because it does match those details.
Of course, it may just be a mistaken new registration by Audi - I bought a brand new Range Rover back in 2003, only to find when the V5 came through that it had been registered as a Rover. A call to DVLA got the V5 re-issued in that case.
I don't think you'd have any comeback in law on the garage you bought it from for mis-selling. You'd have to prove their actions were deliberately misleading or negligent, and their (very good) defence is that they went off what the V5 / DVLA database said was correct.
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In reply to Robjp
Just to be clear I have been advised by citizen advice that I have a valid claim via the soga and also by phoning a local solicitor.
Just for everyone's info I had a reply from honestjohn advisor which was this:
Reply From: letters@honestjohn.co.uk
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The passage of time is no defence. He sold you a front wheel drive Audi as a quattro when it was not in fact a quattro and if he does not buy it back from you for a sensible price based on the price you paid for it (given the passage of time and the miles you put on it) or give you the deal you ask for (a reasonable £1,200) you can sue him. Law here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/
Honest John
ASK Honest John advisor
Also to be fair to the dealer I purchased this from he has been very understanding and he has sort of excepted my deal of taking 12000 for the car back (not in writing) but this is me buying a newer car at more money. My main issue is that I am buying from him again and relying on him to find me one, where really I would like to have the choice of looking and yes take someone along with me who knows about cars!
The best advise so far is from gordonbennet so thanks for that and will let you all know how I get on.
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In reply to 72 dudes With all respect the car was advertised as a rare example when I purchased this, any belief I had in this was from the dealer, perhaps that is my mistake. I had never bought a car for that amount of money before and guess I fell in love with the car and believed all that was told to me by the dealer. Interesting as you say no redress with the SOGA as the guys at citizen advise seem to differ, in fact they were saying i have or would have 6yrs where I can make a claim. They were also that interested they want to pass this on to trading standards. Funny because it's like what your saying is, if I'm dumb enough to fall for what's advertised and never new different until it was pointed out even though I have all documents to say it is what it isn't I should just live with it and put it down to my mistake and the dealer had no role in this whatsoever. I guess never believe any legal documents, never trust a car dealer and don't buy things you don't know anything about... Also if I knew a lot about cars I would buy private so going to a dealer where they do or should know about cars is why I choose to buy from them and unfortunately trust what they are selling is what it is supposed to be at the least.
"With all respect the car was advertised as a rare example" I would image a 2 wheel drive Quattro is very rare.
I would say asked for the difference, based on the point in time the car was purchased. A full refund would be an up hill struggle.
Lets face it, you don't need quattro and I asume the car is fine in other respects
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