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Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - Rover 600

Are we subsidising the owners of 1960s Ferraris? There are 307,407 cars that are road tax exempt, that is their Tax Disc is issued free, as they are Historic Vehicles made before 1973.

At current tax rates of £130 for under 1549cc and £220 for over 1549cc for vehicles registered before 2001 that is between £39 Million to £ 67 Million that other road users are subsidising the owners of 1950s Rolls Royces and 1960s Aston Martins.

Are we really saying that the owner of an £100,000 plus Ferrari cannot afford a £220 VED Tax Disc?

Owners of eight to nine to ten year old cars pay full Road Tax. They get no free VED Disc.

This exemption pre-SORN and before the computer age may have made sense. That the cost of issue and re-issue of a Tax Disc to an historic vehicle might have exceeded the revenue generated.

With proposals for the paperless Tax Disc and SORN being able to be declared at the touch of a mouse click this free Tax Disc for pre-1973 vehicles now makes no sense.

Are we all in this together? Or are vintage Bugatti owners costing millions of pounds somehow exempt from actually putting their hands in their pockets and actually paying for a £220 VED Tax Disc?

I owned a 1960s Sunbeam Tiger and was happy to pay my way when I used it on public roads. That I should enjoy what it for free when the owner of a nine year old Ford pays full VED is an exemption from tax too far!

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - unthrottled

I think the argument is that: 1.) 40+ year old cars probably do a very low annual mileage, so their contribution to road wear and tear is very small.

2.) Having paid road tax for 25 years, they've paid their share of VED (although the same exemption applies ti imported classic cars).

I see where you're coming from, but I quite like the exemption for old cars and was disappointed when labour discontinued the 25 year rule.

There's no way to make road tax fair apart from scrapping it and adding the equivalent amount to fuel. Revenue neutral and everyone pays for what they actually use. Won't happen though. I hate it when people talk about CO2 emissions and fuel consumption as if the two things were separate-the government samoke and mirrors works!

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - oldroverboy.

There is a simple way to do all this, it is the way the swiss do it,

Example man has large big enginned car, small car and perhaps another car for family use. Pays for licence plates based on the engine size bhp for the biggest car, but can transfer those plates into clip on holder to use on the small car which means the big car is off the road...Pays insurance tax 3rd party on the largest engine size but covers anything smaller, and fully comp is percentage of cars value. Insurance also has bunus ncd and negative ncd too. so imo a better system, but probably would not work here. Ther is also a fee to pay each time a vehicle is registered and mot inspections are done by the state with no axes to grind, and will give an mot even with minor defects as long as the car returns within a short period showing defects fixed.

I for one have no problem with paying ved on older cars, it was one of those things that happened at the time , in short an anachronism.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - carr

Why not do it the way the French do it? Charge a single fee, related to engines size, for registering a car and that's it.

VED is an example of the British government's typical way to do anything, make it complicated, inefficient and unfair.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - oldroverboy.

Why not do it the way the French do it? Charge a single fee, related to engines size, for registering a car and that's it.

VED is an example of the British government's typical way to do anything, make it complicated, inefficient and unfair.

fully agree!

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - pd

How many pre-1973 cars of any type do you actually see on the morning commute or on the M25 in a Friday night rush hour?

Not many I suspect. These type of cars do very little mileage so I support the free VED for all of them.

In the case of a pre-1973 I would imagine the amout of fuel it uses means the owner pays a lot of tax for two day trips out a year anyway!

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - unthrottled

There's something about motoring that makes governments go gaga when it comes to concocting taxes.

Take the old fiscal horespower for instance. A vehicle's tax liability was determined by the total bore area of the pistons. That's why British engines tended to be very undersquare, with small bores and long strokes.

Or the London congestion charge with exemptions for cars in band A tax group. Is it a congestion charge or an emissions charge? If it is a congestion charge, the rate should be determined by the floorpan size of the vehicle.

Muddled tax systems never make any sense because they always produce anomalies and condradicting incentives which require amendments which themselves throw up anomalies when then require...

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - madf

"Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners..."

This is typical rubbish .

Who pays RFL? Taxpayers.

Who does the money belong to? Taxpayers.

The previous but several Government decides not to tax older cars. So the taxpayers don't pay tax.

It takes a really serious type of inverted logic to equate "not paying tax" with "the Government is giving money away".

Presumably teh writer thinks all money belongs to the Government and property owning is theft? Because that is what the headline means...


Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - jamie745

Where was this petty class war stuff a couple of years ago when Gordon was supergluing his fingers to the Downing Street doorframe? Over the last couple of years it's been everywhere, even down to really irrelevant things like this. Where was this story in 2009?

The 'Government giving it away' does make me laugh though, messrs Miliband and Harman keep using the same line in regards to the Government 'writing a cheque to millionaires' by reducing the top rate of tax.

Theres a difference between giving money away and letting people keep more of their own money.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - unthrottled

'writing a cheque to millionaires' by reducing the top rate of tax.

Since the big earners generally aren't on PAYE and don't pay much income tax, it doesn't much matter if the niminal rate is 50% or 45%. The whole argument over 50p was very depressing. Osborne announces a non-existent tax cut and Balls denounces him for writing cheques to millionaires. Meanwhile Jimy Carr carries on paying an effective tax rate of 2%...

Can't we just use a flat tax system set at a practical rate, or would that be too simple?

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - jamie745

Also simple maths shoots down the soundbite because the additional income tax rate kicks in at £150,000 which keen maths students among you will notice isn't within ten cubic feet of a million anything.

Labour's line that the tax cut will 'cost £3billion' is just embarassing now.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - madf

Labour's line that the tax cut will 'cost £3billion' is just embarassing now.

Waht can you expect from the Shadow Chancellor Ed BBBBalls? Economic competence?

He had his chance in Government and proved he was a useless spendthrift with no financial nous.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - RT

Labour's line that the tax cut will 'cost £3billion' is just embarassing now.

Waht can you expect from the Shadow Chancellor Ed BBBBalls? Economic competence?

He had his chance in Government and proved he was a useless spendthrift with no financial nous.

Labour Chancellors and shadow chancellors don't seem to have any grasp of basic arithmetic, surely a necessary skill for a Chancellor of the Exchequer - the intellectually gifted (but deviod of common sense) Gordon Brown abolished the 10% starting rate of tax and heralded it as a tax cut, not actually realising that it was a tax increase when the new starting rate was 20%.

Government giving away £67m to Ferrari owners... - jamie745

It might be vaguely near £3bn if the people they believe should pay it were actually paying it. It also might be sort of £3bn if the raising of taxes didn't influence behaviour. For instance how many high earners fled to Zurich when the tax came in?

Government has this hilarious tendancy to think 'lets bring in a higher tax' and then do the calculations to work out how much they'll get from all these people, no doubt the calculator told them £3bn in regard to the 50p rate but no calculator could've told them what those liable would do to avoid it. Government never realises every policy has a knock on effect to something else, like all that extra NHS 'investment' is now bankrupting the pensions bill because people live too long.

A great example of this is motoring taxes, such as the idea of road pricing. In the same paragraph they say the plan is to use the money raised from road pricing to improve public transport but the main focus is to get cars off the road. Well if we stop driving then they won't get their money will they? Can't have it both ways. The Scottish Government recently announced plans to charge a supertax levy on all big stores who sell tobacco products. In the same breath they claim it'll save thousands of lives but also raise £400m over 4 years, well not if the shops stop selling it surely?