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Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - peteratsrinagar

I have just purchased a 9 year old Rover. It is in immaculate condition. Not a sign of rust anywhere. I live high on the clifftops in Cornwall and think that undersealing the car is a good idea. How do I proceed and expected cost of?

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

Don´t waste your time or money the death of the car will not be rust.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - RT

Just let natural oil leaks take care of things.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - craig-pd130

With one or two exceptions (some Mercedes models, Ford Ka etc), most cars of the past 15 years don't die of rust, it's usually because a number of major components (clutch, suspension bushes / arms etc) die in quick succession, rendering repair uneconomical.

In terms of rustproofing, you need to stop rot coming from the inside out. To do this properly, the rustproofing agent needs to be injected into sills, chassis box sections, door bottoms etc etc using a proper high-pressure compressor so that the rustproofer actually mists properly and penetrates crevices. The home-use kits you can buy usually just 'puddle' the rustproofer so it doesn't penetrate properly.

When I had my old BGT V8, I found a local classic car restorer who did a high-pressure spray job using a mix of Waxoyl and oil. Cost £100 cash 16 years ago. The car STANK for a week afterwards. You could ring a few garages / repair shops (especially ones that do classics) and ask them.

One tip - if you want to do this, do NOT do it in winter. Far better to do it in summer (ideally after a couple of warm sunny days, if we ever get any), when the higher ambient temps mean there is less moisture trapped in the car's structure.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

It will cost more than the cars worth and it will not do a blind bit of good.

Edited by Collos25 on 16/12/2012 at 11:09

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - unthrottled

On my local town high street is home to an A-reg Triumph Acclaim and an E-reg Toyota Carina. Both cars have lived outside for at least twenty years and do not appear to have corrosion problems. The High steeet is exposed and windy. The problem isn't so much the underside getting wet-which is inevitable. The problem is standing moisture. I think garaging makes the problem worse because if you put a wet car in the garage, it'll stay wet.

Heat is your friend. A hot exhaust can easily dry out the entire underside of the car. Hot brakes will dry out the suspension components. Put some lead in your boots!

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - gordonbennet

Alernatively, seeing as the OP asked about undersealing not if those who can't be bothered think its a waste of time.

For the rest of the winter keep salt hosed off the underside weekly, best time is after a wet run.

Then when the last of the salt is gone give it a final thorught underbody washing and let it dry fully, then inspect and paint any parts that need it as necessary, brake calipers hubs etc, won't necessarily make them last longer but painted in black Hammerite they look a lot better than rust through the wheel spokes.

Then either find someone who sprays Waxoyl or similar product or if you enjoy getting absolutely filthy DIY.

If you DIY be sure to heat the Waxoyl in a pail of hot water to thin it, it will spray much easier, and i suggest pouring the first batch over your head, you'll end up plastered in the stuff so getting covered first stops you worrying about it..:-)

As said, the car will stink for weeks.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - gordonbennet

You asked about costs, DIY probably £50 will do a thorough job might be £70 if you end up using 10 litres of Waxoyl, if you already have access to spraying eqpt then simply the costs of 1 or 2 5 litre cans of Waxoyl.

Professional rustproofers are rare, a through dosing underneath around £100 min, for fully in-cavity rustproofing from £150 to £350.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Pebble

Just be careful who you deal with--my father had a 1958 Chevrolet Apache that he took in for rustproofing, and the workers bungled the job so badly that it actually *accelerated* the rust process...when he finally got rid of the vehicle there was little left but rust.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - jamie745

Some of the 75 bashing here is a bit harsh. The 75 was a decent car and nearly 8 years after Rovers demise you still see plenty of 75s on the road.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - 72 dudes

Some of the 75 bashing here is a bit harsh. The 75 was a decent car and nearly 8 years after Rovers demise you still see plenty of 75s on the road.

My thoughts entirely - how many Rover 75s or MG ZTs do you see with rust?

In fact. most still have a deep lustre in the paintwork. The pre-facelift models in fact were way over-specced with thicker steel, loads of coats of paint and topcoat.

OP, you go ahead and waxoyl it. I predict the Rover 75 to be a future classic. Just make sue if it's a 1.8 that the head gasket has been done.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - RT

What 75 bashing ?

My comment about letting oil leaks do the job applies to all cars - meaning that modern cars, including the 75, are well enough built that the benefits of Waxoyl are no longer needed, in my opinion.

Edited by RT on 16/12/2012 at 17:09

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - tanvir

Don't bother, 75's don't rust.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

The most important thing on a 75 is to keep the drains clear under the wipers or you will be buying a new ECU its the death of many 75´s as is not replacing the various O rings on the cooling system on the 1.8.They have a complicated fuel sender and fuel pump under the back seat one on one side and one on the other.Pre BMW cars can be spotted because they have black sills BMW cars have the sills in the same colour as the car.A really underated car and a pleasure to own I think BMW only took Rover because it needed it to buy Mini which was only what it really wanted a shame really.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - SteveLee

Don't bother, 75's don't rust.

The BMW-era "Oxford" (Cowley) ones can rust. Botched accident damage aside, the pre-facelift Longbridge Phoenix-era cars don't - they are superbly built.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Big John

I've restored many cars in my time.

Re rustproofing (although its been a while):-

I always use a warm Waxoyl / new oil mix. If you just use Waxoyl it can sit on to of layered rust - if anything making things worse. The oil in the mix soaks into the rusty layers.

If you don't have the spray gear use a Waxoyl starter kit:- Warm up the Waxoyl in hot water. Pour out half of the Waxoyl onto a container for future use, top up with cheap new engine oil (never used oil). Modify pickup pipe with a notch cut out near the top. Replace pipe/spray attachment with a lengthy fuel pipe with a bolt in the end and two holes drilled further back through the pipe (creating 4 holes). Pump up and watch the oil/wayoyl mixture "splatter" out of the end.

On the underside - I always paint on clean new oil - leave 24hrs - paint over with waxoyl underseal (yes it does! - but it is really messy). If you just painted on underseal over a rusty seam it comes back with avengance.

I revisited a 1967 Moggy Minor I restored in 1988 this year. Much welding had to be done back then ( sill structures, floors, rear spring hanger chasssis, wheel arch mounts etc...) and I rust proofed as above. On gettihng it started again this year involving changing a fuel pipe got my hands filthy on waxoyl/oil goo that was still tacky. Body where repaired in 1988 was perfect - had started to go on some areas that looked perfect back then (boot lid if only I had rust proofed this !)

Edited by Big John on 16/12/2012 at 22:51

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - johncyprus
Slightly off topic but great choice of car. If I needed a saloon or estate car I'd get one of these. Like my current car a 1996 MGF it is much maligned and offers fabulous value. The popular view is to write these cars off because of the association with the K series engine however with the latest modified head gaskets these are easily and cheaply sorted. Have a look at MG - Rover.org there's a wealth of knowledge and camaraderie out there for MG and Rover owners.
Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

The head gasket in itself was not a problem the low water content of the engine and its ability to overheat at the slightest drop in coolant was and is the main problem.Replacement of the "O" rings is crucial as is keeping the drains clear as a new programed ECU costs a lot of money

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - unthrottled

The small coolant capacity of the engine was the bit that Rover got right. The ability of the coolant to cool the head is essentially based on the coolant flow rate, not the volume of coolant in the engine. For a given flow rate, small coolant channels give superior cooling because the coolant velocity is higher and there is less chance of steam voids forming.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - RT

The small coolant capacity of the engine was the bit that Rover got right. The ability of the coolant to cool the head is essentially based on the coolant flow rate, not the volume of coolant in the engine. For a given flow rate, small coolant channels give superior cooling because the coolant velocity is higher and there is less chance of steam voids forming.

It also warms up quicker - but the downside is less reserve capacity if/when coolant is lost.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - unthrottled

How so? The total cooling system capacity isn't defined by the volume of coolant in the engine. Most of the coolant is outside the engine.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

The MAIN problem with the K series engine is its low coolant capacity when a leak occurs it very very quickly blows the cylinder head gasget a part that ROVER got WRONG.The design faults on the K series engine are many as Ford and Land Rover found out .

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - madf

I've restored many cars in my time.

Re rustproofing (although its been a while):-

I always use a warm Waxoyl / new oil mix. If you just use Waxoyl it can sit on to of layered rust - if anything making things worse. The oil in the mix soaks into the rusty layers.

If you don't have the spray gear use a Waxoyl starter kit:- Warm up the Waxoyl in hot water. Pour out half of the Waxoyl onto a container for future use, top up with cheap new engine oil (never used oil). Modify pickup pipe with a notch cut out near the top. Replace pipe/spray attachment with a lengthy fuel pipe with a bolt in the end and two holes drilled further back through the pipe (creating 4 holes). Pump up and watch the oil/wayoyl mixture "splatter" out of the end.

On the underside - I always paint on clean new oil - leave 24hrs - paint over with waxoyl underseal (yes it does! - but it is really messy). If you just painted on underseal over a rusty seam it comes back with avengance.

I revisited a 1967 Moggy Minor I restored in 1988 this year. Much welding had to be done back then ( sill structures, floors, rear spring hanger chasssis, wheel arch mounts etc...) and I rust proofed as above. On gettihng it started again this year involving changing a fuel pipe got my hands filthy on waxoyl/oil goo that was still tacky. Body where repaired in 1988 was perfect - had started to go on some areas that looked perfect back then (boot lid if only I had rust proofed this !)

Waxoil is rubbish compared to Dinitrol - tests have proved it.

The fact that you have to alter it to make it work says it all.

Personally I would not waste any money on a Rover 75...just service it and run into the ground..

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Collos25

I would agree Dinitrol was or is a far superior product.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Big John

>Waxoil is rubbish compared to Dinitrol - tests have proved it.

>The fact that you have to alter it to make it work says it all.

True,

But at the time a 50/50 mix of waxoyl/oil was a LOT cheaper and I didn't have a compressor/sprayer.

Revisiting the car earlier this year 24 years after I had rebuilt and rustproofed it has shown it clearly done its job well. However you must remember at the time ALL rusty metal had been replaced.

It was one hell of a rebuild job - If i'd know how bad it was before I started I wouldn't have bothered!

However I haven't bothered rustproofing my 2001 Skoda Octavia and there is no sign of any rust on the underbody.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Hamsafar

Waxoyl smells nice, but old engine oil stinks I wouldn't want a burned oil smell hanging around my car at any price. It's also going to stop the waxoyl setting into a proper wax shell IMHO and cause cintamination of the groundwater.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - Big John

ALL rust proofing products will cause contamination if allowed to leak/drip. The oil/wayoxyl seems to semi-set into a goo - haven't done it for a couple of decades though - Most modern cars don't seem to need it and I got bored with repairing rusty classic cars.

I NEVER EVER used OLD engine oil for all sorts of reasons:-

1) It's stinks - as you mentioned

2) It's carcinogenic

3) It corrodes metal (not a good property for a rust proofer)

Waxoyl is great at forming a wax shell over crispy rust which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. I did some welding work on Volvo 144 sills many moons ago. On cutting out the rot I cut out a sill cross-section which showed where waxoyl (injected years earlier by someone) sat on top of a thick laminated layer of rust punctuated with rot holes.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - bathtub tom

What's better at preventing corrosion on old metal, old engine oil, or nothing?

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - unthrottled

What's better at preventing corrosion on old metal, old engine oil, or nothing?

If engine oil still has some base number left in it, engine oil. If the base additives have been used up the combustion gases that condense into the oil will make the oil weakly acidic-so nothing.

I used to use it on exposed mild steel railings, heated up, then quenched in a drum of old oil. Worked as a reasaonable albeit short-term coating. Gives an attractive 'blued' finish. Without the heat, the oil is very messy and attrracts dirt.

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - gordonbennet

Doesn't engine or other oil, if mixed with proprietory rust prevention, cause problems with any rubber it comes into contact with over time?

Rover 75 Retro - Undersealing a car - madf

What's better at preventing corrosion on old metal, old engine oil, or nothing?

tinyurl.com/cjes9tk OK for storage.

On cars exppsed to elements? Dintrol. tinyurl.com/cws5mfh

Edited by madf on 22/12/2012 at 10:08