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I know what one Hoyer driver has posted elsewhere, a top line of £35k including his bonus/OT, and you would not like his shift pattern, which alternates rapidly between nights and days after about 4 shifts...i would suggest that 75% of the drivers are similarly paid with extremely unsocial hours.
I drive tankers now but not fuel, i wouldn't do his shifts or hours for the pay he gets, its not 1963 even working class lorry drivers shouldn't be working 70 hour weeks to make their pay up.
The £45k banded about by spinners, their gophers and the envious will be salaried to a small minority of drivers who probably worked for the fuel companies themselves and have kept their old contracts intact.
Unthrottled, a good fair minded post.
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even working class lorry drivers shouldn't be working 70 hour weeks to make their pay up.
Of course they shouldn't. It's a shame that driving a tanker lorry full of 20 tonnes of highly flammable liquid is perceived as a McJob.
Most prestigious 'professional' jobs are, for the most part, routine and 'easy' once you become accustomed to them. That includes engineers and doctors too!
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Does the country come to its knees if accenture emploees don't turn in? No.
Why aren't management consultants on tachographs? Because it doesn't make any difference if they make a mistake.
Or another joke - what is the definition of a management consultant - someone who charges you £50k to tell you the time with your own watch !
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Someone who charges you £50k to tell you the time with your own watch!
+ £25K arrangement fee for taking the watch off your wrist
+ £13k bonus for returning the watch to your wrist within seven working days.
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The other spin is that this is about pay. It isn't.
It's about having a framework for general terms and conditions across the private companies to ensure minimum standards are set and they are bidding for contracts against these standards.
The food manufacturing industry has had them for years (HACCP, BRC, EFSIS etc). If you don't meet the requred standard you can't bid for contracts to supply the food service industry, supermarkets etc etc. It stops corners being cut.
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Panic buying has already started, queues were readily forming at some outlets and road congestion has been reported in places as a result. Some fuel stations are rationing fuel by either a max. of £20 worth or a min. of £25 worth.
This was bound to happen, even the slightest sniff or word of a strike was going to be enough to trigger a chain reaction in the light of what happened last time around.
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But there is no strike. Im sorry but the Police need to take over petrol stations to stop people panic buying it. There is no strike, no strike is confirmed. Go home morons.
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They need to give seven days notice of any strike action!? Why are people so stupid and selfish!?
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Why are people so stupid and selfish!?
Question is the answer.
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7 days notice is useless. If a strike was annouced there would be an immediate and uncontrollable panic reaction, fuel stations would run dry within 2 days. (Human nature and all that stuff.)
>> Police need to take over petrol stations to stop people panic buying it.
This would mean a Police state and the UK is yet such a state, thank goodness. Besides the Police have enough work to do without playing nanny to motorists.
A better way of securing fuel supplies is to ensure strike action, walkouts etc. are illegal and everyone who works for fuel supply companies must sign an official legal contract whereby strike action, walkouts etc. are forbidden.
Yet again there are queues outside some fuel stations today, albeit smaller queues compared with the last lot of mayhem.
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Strikers are like little children throwing their toys out of the pram.
Industrial action often has no effect on the employer that they're in dispute with, but has great effect on customers who aren't even in dispute but without which there would be no industry.
Strikes of any sort should be banned - force them to go on talking until it's resolved by negotiation.
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I'm amazed at how many people have allowed themselves to become totally dependent on their cars to get anywhere and do anything. It hasn't always been this way.
As a kid growing up in the '80s, I walked or caught the bus to school and not everyine in the neighbourhood had a car. Now, I never see anyone leave their house without getting in a car.
I last put fuel in my car 2 months ago and cycle to work most days so I'm not concerned about the strike, or in thrall to tanker drivers.....
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I'm amazed at how many people have allowed themselves to become totally dependent on their cars to get anywhere and do anything. It hasn't always been this way.
As a kid growing up in the '80s, I walked or caught the bus to school and not everyine in the neighbourhood had a car. Now, I never see anyone leave their house without getting in a car.
I last put fuel in my car 2 months ago and cycle to work most days so I'm not concerned about the strike, or in thrall to tanker drivers.....
Being able to live close to your work is a fast-disappearing event - I never lived/worked close enough to cycle for the last 40 years of my working life and an ever-increasing number of people have had to cope with the same issue.
Now I'm retired I enjoy the countryside, from which bus-stops and train stations have long since disappeared.
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The economy of the country has changed to the point where cars are a requirement. People dont buy diesel Astra's and sit in traffic for fun, we'd all love to live next door to where we work if that was possible but for the vast majority its not. London has priced workers out of living there so they have to commute in from the outskirts, in areas not well served by public transport you'd struggle to get employed without a car because employers dont trust public transport. Property wise in the City you have a choice of studio flat next door to work or a proper house for human sized people 30 miles away in the suburbs, the latter is better but means you need a car.
92% of the UK's commute is by car and I reckon most of the other 8% is London. Tanker Drivers are tremendously important and the use of fuel effects everybody in some way, even those who cycle to work. You may cycle to work but if everybody else lives further away, uses a car and cant get fuel then your place of employment doesn't get much done.
Add all of this to the ever expanding array of business parks in the middle of nowhere - where most of the jobs are now - and without a car you'll be a bit stuck. People have been priced out of living close to work and unless fuel tax comes down we'll be priced out of driving to work as well.
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This would mean a Police state and the UK is yet such a state, thank goodness.
Okay.....
A better way of securing fuel supplies is to ensure strike action, walkouts etc. are illegal and everyone who works for fuel supply companies must sign an official legal contract whereby strike action, walkouts etc. are forbidden.
How is that not essentially a Police state? Thats the sort of dictatorship style nonsense you'd have in North Korea.
Industrial action often has no effect on the employer that they're in dispute with, but has great effect on customers who aren't even in dispute but without which there would be no industry.
It has a huge effect on the employer if it has great effect on customers.
Strikes of any sort should be banned - force them to go on talking until it's resolved by negotiation.
We live in a democracy and people have a democratic right to strike whether you like it or not. If you take the right to strike away from the workers you give the employers all the power.
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Strikes of any sort should be banned - force them to go on talking until it's resolved by negotiation.
Negotiations are completely pointless unless you have a big stick to take to the table.
I used to be very anti-strike-like you say, it can be very counter productive to the company and hence the long term interest of the employees.
But I'm disillusioned with the way pay scales have evolved over the last decade. The rate of pay for 'management grade' work has risen much faster than for average workers. I don't believe this reflects additional effort or efficacy, but rather a misplaced sense of worth, and a good negotiating skills.
The country is in a mess because everyone wants to manage other people's money or labour-because that is where social status and financial rewards lie. Jobs that simply involve doing something are undervalued. If a strike pushes up the pay for taner drivers because it forces the country to listen then it's probably a good thing.
Driving a truck is more useful than writing powerpoint presentations about going forward and engaging stakeholders.
The sooner that general 'management' is exposed as administratioin, the better.
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Well said Unthrottled, I couldn't agree more.
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Well said Unthrottled, I couldn't agree more.
ditto
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The sooner that general 'management' is exposed as administratioin, the better.
*hides under table*
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A better way of securing fuel supplies is to ensure strike action, walkouts etc. are illegal and everyone who works for fuel supply companies must sign an official legal contract whereby strike action, walkouts etc. are forbidden.
>> How is that not essentially a Police state? Thats the sort of dictatorship style
>> nonsense you'd have in North Korea.
What planet do you live on !
There are numerous professions where strike action is not allowed and forms part of the employment contract. Image what would happen if RAF fighter pilots decided to take strike action (for whatever reason) just as an enermy had launched an airborn attack on the UK, opps London just disappeared and millions of people just got toosted just because some goon(s) decided they wanted to go on strike ! You can forget about fuel strikes after that cus there wouldn't be a UK for much longer afterwards.
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There are numerous professions where strike action is not allowed and forms part of the employment contract.
And all of them are in the public sector and all of them involve national safety - Police, RAF etc like you said. Neither of which applies to tanker drivers who work for a private sector employer.
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We have a solution - it's a national safety issue (national security actually), move all fuel tanker drivers into the public sector and have them sign no strike contracts, end of problem.
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Even if the State did choose to run this themselves at considerably huge cost, how do you prove their role is important to national security? Providing they dont deprive the emergency services of fuel - special provisions are made for them - you have no case.
The fact is you dont like the fact people live in a democracy and have the right to withdraw labour which might cause you a problem.
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Even if the State did choose to run this themselves at considerably huge cost, how do you prove their role is important to national security? Providing they dont deprive the emergency services of fuel - special provisions are made for them - you have no case.
The fact is you dont like the fact people live in a democracy and have the right to withdraw labour which might cause you a problem.
What utter piffle !
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Dismissive response lacking counter argument. Very good.
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Mike-It's not a national security issue. I don't like millitant strikes any more than you. We all know what wildcat strikes did to British Leyland.
But workforces that 'knuckle down and get on with it' invariably find that their interests are ignored and they get screwed. Much of the harumpfing is coming from people who have never had to work night shifts or weekends, but are quite happy to avail themselves of the services of people who do.
Truckers, like any remote employees, find themselves with the problem that they are invariably absent when changes in working conditions are being discussed. You'll always find that the people who are on close terms with the HR manager or the boss find themselves with the most favourable working conditions...
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You'll always find that the people who are on close terms with the HR manager or the boss find themselves with the most favourable working conditions...
Shop stewards or employee reps have to be carefully selected by the members, some are easily bought and as you note a bit too cosy with management, others are too militant and lack the ability to see the overall picture.
Best reps/stewards i've known have been unafraid and vociferous, but laden with common sense and a sense of fair play for all, rare qualities in management circles too.
Some people would like to see a return to the doffing of the cap and serf labour, conveniently forgetting that their forbears negotiated the terms and conditions of their jobs in most cases.
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There is a limit to how much a workforce can 'shut up and get on with it' because they will always be taken advantage of. Companies would pay people £1 a day if they could get away with it, the more you give them for nothing the more you do yourself out of money.
I work in management, my main role being to control spending and general administration, exactly like unthrottled says it is. I'm not the highest up by any means but I've thrown my toys out of my pram when I've seen an injustice and the reason I'm still employed is because I was right. I've been protesting with the companies Asian owners recently to save jobs on site, even putting forward an economic model proving their plan won't save them any money but I've lost that battle and I now have to watch people clear out their desks.
Fun.
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Very few public sector workers are not permiited to strike, only the Police I think. Cast your mind back over the last few months and think who has been on strike, teachers,college lecturers, London Underground and so the list goes on.
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So, their pay is £35k pa with overtime where possible up to a total of £45k
This leads to 2 pertinent questions ;
How does that compare to other HGV drivers working the same hours ?
What is the change suggested to their contract / package that has brought about the threatened strike ?
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What is the change suggested to their contract / package that has brought about the threatened strike ?
As far as I can tell there's no one thing. The action is about getting some underpinning minima on issues such as safety, training as well as pay and conditions. Aim is to prevent a 'race to the bottom'.
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''So, their pay is £35k pa with overtime where possible up to a total of £45k
This leads to 2 pertinent questions ;How does that compare to other HGV drivers working the same hours ?''
Brompton is correct, this dispute isn't about pay as such, though govt and other vested interests have spun the story and emphasised the pay aspect, the politics of envy, this is a section of the transport industry that has an enviable road transport safety record, its in all our interests to keep it like that.
However you have asked about transport pay and i'll try to answer candidly.
As for comparing to other HGV drivers, about the same as other drivers in specialised work, i put in 20 years on car transporters for money that varied from the lower to the higher figures, longer hours though and very hard work but like the tankers needs care attention and competence to do the job right.
I now drive tankers, not liquid but pressure blown, my money is again similar, though i work a strange days only shift pattern, being salaried my actual hours worked are less than the fuel tanker drivers and i get regular periods between shifts.
Fortunately my company don't want their drivers putting in 65/70 hour weeks to earn a living wage, some in general haulage still do.
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>> jamie745 - Dismissive response lacking counter argument. Very good.
I'm not obliged to respond, especially in the light of the utter piffle & judgemental hogwash & the false allegations you wrote.
Lighten up a little jamie, you take things too seriously at times.
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Tanker drivers supply what we need and they see an opportunity to make their lot better by threatening fuel availability. Just like air traffic controllers at holiday times they take their chance. I can't get to work without a car so I guess they have me by the proverbials along with millions of others. Let hope its all resolved before long.
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