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I think over the Christmas period the amount of licence points received should be doubled. It's done elsewhere, with an advertising campaign.
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Why?
Is the act of drink driving somehow much more perilous during the latter part of December than during the rest of the year? This is the same knee jerk reaction that gave rise to totally disproportionate sentences to rioters simply because the offences took place in the public eye. This is a retrograde step where misdemeanours committed under the radar of public outrage are punished with the slap on the wrist, but when the same offence is reported on News 24, the penalty is suddenly raised. I think this is how the justice system operated in the middle ages. No thanks.
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Why?
Is the act of drink driving somehow much more perilous during the latter part of December than during the rest of the year? This is the same knee jerk reaction that gave rise to totally disproportionate sentences to rioters simply because the offences took place in the public eye. This is a retrograde step where misdemeanours committed under the radar of public outrage are punished with the slap on the wrist, but when the same offence is reported on News 24, the penalty is suddenly raised. I think this is how the justice system operated in the middle ages. No thanks.
Agreed - it's like giving 50% discount Jan-Nov !!!
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It'd be bonkers beyond belief to give double the points if the offence is committed at a certain time of year. What next? 6 points for speeding if its after 6pm? I do love how 'its done elsewhere' is often put forward as justification for stupid idea's as if it makes it more credible somehow. While we're on it, drink driving already carries disqualification anyway so you'd achieve nothing with it, except maybe appease some nutjob tabloids. You drink drive and get caught - you lose your licence, thats how it is already.
Its also interesting that people presume drink driving to be at its most rife during Christmas when in fact i'd wager its more commonplace in the summer. Barbecue's in the garden, parents off work due to school holidays, pub lunches, daytime drinking etc. The stats may say 'x amount more are caught at Christmas' but thats because Christmas is the only time when they specifically bother looking for them, ive never seen a 'one week in July drink drive campaign.'
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Tue 13 Dec 2011 23:15 PLEASE - Don't DRINK AND DRIVE - jamie745 It'd be bonkers beyond belief to give double the points if the offence is committed at a certain time of year. What next? 6 points for speeding if its after 6pm? yes, that's one of your better ideas
I do love how 'its done elsewhere' is often put forward as justification for stupid idea's as if it makes it more credible somehow. It is indeed an excellent idea. Make people extra thoughtful about what they're doing.
While we're on it, drink driving already carries disqualification. Excellent!
Its also interesting that people presume drink driving to be at its most rife during Christmas when in fact i'd wager its more commonplace in the summer. Christmas is in summer elsewhere. BTW I'd wager NYE is the worst one night of the year for drinking and driving.
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unthrottled - I think this is how the justice system operated in the middle ages. Crikey, you must be very old. I don't remember that far back.
And while we are in festive mood, I'd ban drivers from parking on the other side of the road. That should have been done before now! ****** dangerous!
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While we're on it, drink driving already carries disqualification. Excellent!
Its also interesting that people presume drink driving to be at its most rife during Christmas when in fact i'd wager its more commonplace in the summer. Christmas is in summer elsewhere. BTW I'd wager NYE is the worst one night of the year for drinking and driving.
Perhaps I should have said "please don't drink and drive anytime"
If i were to dare to drink and drive SWMBO has said that 1, i will be emascukated with a surgical scalpel. 2 she would throw me out. Disqualification as punishment next to the first 2 choices is also unappealing. She is teetotal, so on the rare occasions we are out, she drives home, simples!
But, maybe the current swiss law would do the trick, automatic 28 days prison....
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BTW I'd wager NYE is the worst one night of the year for drinking and driving.
I bet it isn't. I suspect habitual drink drivers have a hiatus of drink driving over Christmas because of the increased riskof being pulled over.
Frankly, whilst I don't think drink driving is clever, its significance is perhaps overrated.
I suspect that a lot of people calling for the automatic castration of drink drivers are the very same people who think nothing of jumping into the car, bleary eyed and exhausted every morning then aggresively negotiate the rush hour traffic. In terms of reaction times and risk taking, tired, harrassed people are no better than drunks.
But it it is easier to test for alcohol than exhaustion, so BOC becomes the bogeyman.
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Frankly, whilst I don't think drink driving is clever, its significance is perhaps overrated.
I suspect that a lot of people calling for the automatic castration of drink drivers are the very same people who think nothing of jumping into the car, bleary eyed and exhausted every morning then aggresively negotiate the rush hour traffic. In terms of reaction times and risk taking, tired, harrassed people are no better than drunks.
You only suspect. You could be right. On the other hand you coild be competely wrong
New Year’s Eve may be the most popular holiday for alcohol consumption, and along with the rest of the holiday season, it’s also a leading time for fatal alcohol-related car crashes.
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No. There's been a lot of research into exhaustion and driving. Chiefly because tiredness is a more prevalent problem than drinking. A number of studies have carried out controlled tests and found tiredness induces the same symptoms as people under the influence of alcohol-namely slow reaction times and poor judgement.
It's a big problem amongst shift workers whose body clocks struggle to adapt to shift patterns causing them to start/finish the working day essentialy exhausted.
The trouble is that there is no breathalyser test for exhaustion.
www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-drivers-bad-drunk.html
www.crystal-claims.co.uk/tired-motoring-dangers.ht...l
oem.bmj.com/content/57/10/649.long
Edited by unthrottled on 14/12/2011 at 22:26
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unthrottled, that's interesting and appears to be valid research. It would be fascinating to know, perhaps you have such information, the statistics relating to deaths caused by tiredness compared with drink driving. I'm sure a number of people drive who are too tired when they should stop for a sleep.
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I don't-and neither does anyone else.
It is trivially easy for a police officer present at the scene of the accident to test for BAC. It is virtually impossible for the same officer to prove that a driver was tired-short of the driver admitting to driving whilst sleep deprived. Since this would be essentially self incriminating and lay the driver open to a charge of careless or even dangerous driving, such admissions are obviously few and far between.
This is why I get irritated by parochial campaigns targetted against one particular offence rather than the general problem of impaired driving-whatever the cause.
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Make people extra thoughtful about what they're doing.
But in January its ok to be just normally thoughtful? But in December they should be extra thoughtful? You're making no sense, this is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. The argument of 'deterrent' is also pretty daft, people know they'll lose their licence but they do it anyway. People say Capital Punishment is a deterrent against murder and rape etc yet plenty keep residing on Death Row.
Bottom line is if you're the kind of person who'd go out, drink heavily and drive home then you're not concerned about the consequences and you'd do it anyway.
Christmas is in summer elsewhere.
Well thats just pathetic pedantry.
It's a big problem amongst shift workers whose body clocks struggle to adapt to shift patterns causing them to start/finish the working day essentialy exhausted.
The trouble is that there is no breathalyser test for exhaustion.
I think i read somewhere that driving after being awake for 18 hours puts your concentration levels within the region of someone who's nearing the drink drive limit. Realistically though people will always drive tired, working parents would never leave the house if they didnt drive tired for example.
Couple of Christmas' ago i worked for the majority of it, doing 9 days in a row and driving home on the 9th i was so tired that i literally dont remember doing the journey. I woke up on the sofa about four hours later asking how the hell i got there, but the car was neatly parked and nobody was run over so i mustve made it!
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Long ago I concluded that the best solution to the drink driving problem is to legally permit drink driving-provided the following conditions are met:
Driving to occur only between the hours of 10pm and 5am
Hazard lights must be displayed
Speed must not exceed 20mph
It'll be shouted down as irresponsible and impractical-but it would actually make quite a bit of sense.
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Speaking as someone who, until recently, worked in the safety industry (nuclear but it applies to loads of others) there exist figures which attempt to quantify exhaustion for statistical purposes i.e. how likely an accident is to occur. Basically, I was taught that the numbers would be the same for 'exhausted' and 'drunk'.
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The dangers of tired driving are easy to show - just retire!
When I finished work my lifestyle became one without time limits or time objectives and I soon learnt that stopping at services or a layby and shutting eyes for 5-10 minutes works wonders for alertness.
I seriously wonder how I survived a career of high mileage plus a full working day without an accident - my job wasn't that stressful compared to some but by heck did I notice how much stress had gone when I finished.
This is the one lesson I try to pass on to younger generations as I now realise just how little extra time is needed for breaks to counter the tiredness and exhaustion.
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'Christmas is in summer elsewhere.'
Jamie, 'Well thats just pathetic pedantry'. At last, jamie returns, you didn't need 'pathetic :) Anyway it's true.......... for lots of people Christmas is in summer. :) Don't you just love summer. It's better than the weather here. :)
Unthrottled, I like your idea of 20 mph limit plus use of hazard lights. However, I guess most drunks wouldn't be able to stick to under 20. All I've heard indicates most drunk drivers are so arrogant they think they are perfectly safe at normal speeds.
Anyway, its best not to drink and drive at all. Stay at a mate's, or walk home or nominate one person in your car not to drink so they can drive. You don't have to drink to over the limit to have a good time. I'm with the OP on this subject.
Bobbin and unthrottled, drink driving has become so ingrained as being anti-social/irrresponsible, I can see why it's mentioned much more than the danger of driving tired. Given what you've both said, I think there should be more advertising and features in the media to bring it much more to the notice of those in danger and everyone else.
Happy Christmas and may you all arrive at your destinations...............safely
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Round 'ere in Efficks. The Efficks police stop around 1500 people at this time of year and breathalyse the lot of them. Guess the percentage found to be above the limit last year..from memory I think it was less than THREE percent.
So whats the answer? Sounds like a collossal misuse of police time and powers to me. Designed to make the force look good, reassure the media and justify the overtime. I just don't think it's cost effective. What it can do is alienate the law abiding.
Maybe they should abandon the mass stops and try using some intellligence led approaches. For example -Get publicans to try to dissuade the drunk from driving and if unsuccessful phone the law. Encourage the public to phone details in. That kind of thing.
Whereas the Government's solution is to drastically lower the limit. Remember in HMG's eyes your all guilty we only have to decide what your guilty of!
Personally I don't drink and drive as you can easily spill it if your not careful......seriously though I hardly touch the stuff.
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 15/12/2011 at 10:18
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So whats the answer? Sounds like a collossal misuse of police time and powers to me. Designed to make the force look good, reassure the media and justify the overtime. I just don't think it's cost effective. What it can do is alienate the law abiding.
Well some will say the fact the Police were highly visible is what deterred the drink driving, i dont particularly buy that but i will say the fact it was only 3% is a good thing isnt it? That symbolises that the message is getting through and that drink drivers are an incredibly small minority. The flip side of course is imagine how many unlicenced, uninsured drivers drove past at the time they were carrying out pointless breath tests and the question of whether Police forces can really afford such operations due to their financial constraints now.
Whereas the Government's solution is to drastically lower the limit.
Well ive watched enough Police Camera Accident Crash shows to know the drink drive limit isnt as high as people think it is, however my main objection to the 'zero limit' idea is that the majority of people caught drink driving are hugely over the limit to a point where they mustve known they couldnt drive, people like that wouldnt be deterred by a 'zero limit.' It would also mean someone who's had a quarter of a pint of Strongbow is treated the same as someone who's had 17 cans of Stella, one has obvious impairment and the other doesnt yet both are equally lawbreakers. Our justice system usually doesnt allow things like that so i dont think it'd be workable. Several Police forces have already said it'd be unenforcable as you'd make millions of legal people illegal overnight and they havent got the resources to deal with that.
Personally the way i look at is ive had nearly 10 years with a clean licence, clean insurance record, no points and no convictions and one stupid act could rip that up and take a long time to repair. No thank you.
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I know of a chap who went drinking with his pals one evening. Five pm next day was stopped (just over 30 at the start of a 30 zone) and found to be just over the limit. His liver must have been floating that night! 18month ban plus fine. He;s not Al Capone but thats pretty harsh.
So when I do have a drink I'm very very careful, since I need my licence to drive to work.
Oh my wife's cousin who ushes at a Mag court, somewhere in Lunnon. He tells me he sees the same people over and over again. Cept when they head home east...a long way east....
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 15/12/2011 at 14:54
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I was pulled over last year about 4 days before Christmas for a random breath test. Came out at 0 and the Policeman was very happy with that and hugely polite i must say.
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A personal note -- my wife's 55-reg Punto was side-swiped by a drink-driver last night at 5:30pm.
Car written off (driver's-side floorpan and sill bent), thankfully my wife's fine apart from the shock and the odd bruise.
After hitting my wife's car, the drunk driver hit the car BEHIND my wife's head-on. Then proceeded to flee the scene, hitting four further cars before finally coming to a halt 100 yards up the road. The police reported the driver was insensible and could not stand up.
The car in question was a BMW X5. This is purely an observation, not in any way a comment on driver or car-choice archetypes.
So please, don't drink & drive.
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Glad to hear your wife is ok Craig. That sounds like a rampage! You can do a lot of damage with a car that big.
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