Some of the worst drivers I have been with have had a "put it in D and press the loud pedal" approach and the car does control them.

I've seen them.

Engage Drive but not brain

My feelings entirely, Humph. It's very good to have, as I'm lucky enough to, an automatic for work (Octavia with DSG) and a manual for fun (Z3). You might well like the DSG, or Ford's equivalent which I think is called Powershift, as they don't blunt the car's performance or carry a penalty in fuel consumption as a torque converter auto does.

Leaving it in D doesn't of course imply that one isn't in control of the car. The manual override is there if you want to press on, but leaving it in D for normal driving actually allows you to concentrate on your driving.

I suppose the point of a clutchless manual is to allow those with a disabled left leg to drive a manual; but my experience of that contraption on a Merc was equally one not to repeat, as was the so-called 'Easytronic' semi-automnatic on a Vauxhall Corsa, which lurched sickeningly on every gearchange, however careful you were with the accelerator.

Good point - but my gripe with torque converters is that they make a car with an engine under 2 litres too sluggish, at least for my tastes. The more powerful the engine, the better bet a torque converter is.

Are they still producing manual gearboxes?

Are they still producing pretend ones?

:-D I always thought of autos as being a bit fake and for woosy people, since I was a kid.

I will add I did motocross from a young age, and the main aspiration at 4/5 years old is to get from a 'kids' PW50 to a 'real' MX bike with gears. Grew up shifting my own cogs, thank you very much!

What if i dont want an involving drive and i just want to get from one place to another with minimal effort and fuss? I do control the car, as in how fast it goes and in which direction its going. And on the occasion where i do want to floor it its good fun also. It'd sloughter unthrottled's 1600 *insert car name here* thing from the lights of that i can assure you! Even if he does change gear himself!

The tax bill only involves fuss if you dont have the money to pay for it. Luckily, i do. Although i know if in a couple of years i want/need to get rid of it the Band M factor will make it less desirable than the 2.7 diesel which holds its price better. Although i do think i'll have a heart attack in the post office when i have to tax it this month.

it was quoted at 240bhp when it was new, i dont know what its putting out but its only 7 years old so i doubt its lost much at all, 235 would be my guess, it doesnt need to use all of it because it already has alot more than you! *grins*

And you can change gears cleanly as much as you want, the fact is my car is more powerful and faster than yours. And underworked sounds good to me, cant stand small engines sounding like sandpaper at high revs and high speed.

45? Even if im driving in "economy cruising mode" i'll be more around the 65 mark, y'know, sort of in the region of the speed limit. And even doing that in my opinion its pretty economical but ive always had bigger cars, only owned one diesel so i guess im sort of used to it. If i wanted to save fuel i'd have bought a 1500 quid Focus diesel wouldnt i. My actual commuting adds up to around 15 miles per day as i live close to where i work, any other mileage obviously i have the choice of whether i wish to make that trip or not and whether to use that fuel or not. I took a 130 mile round trip at the weekend mostly A road stuff and it was like just blinking and you're there. If i was doing heavy commuting i wouldnt of bought this car.

Although i do believe economy in anything can be improved by driving style, alot of people dont realise the way the car is driven is just as important as what car it is, like if you thrash a Prius it wont be economical. But ultimatley if you want to save fuel you'll buy a fuel efficient vehicle, which as my tax band M suggests, mine isnt.

addendum: This is why oversized engines tend to use more fuel than correctly sized ones. Big engines are more efficient than small ones. The problem is that there is that the efficient region doesn't corrospond to any sensible road speed.

There is an optimum size for the task at hand. But the task at hand constantly changes so it is an entirely subjective answer.

Engineers are used to the pain of sitting on a fence. Everything is a compromise!