I've just put Road Tax on my Car and looking at the charges for 6 months or 12 months, It seems Cost may be about 18 Pounds Extra a year to get Tax every 6 months....
What a rip off....
Why can't we pay the Tax on Fuel...
Is there a better way....
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The actual additional charge for doing it 6 monthly is, IIRC, 10%.
And yas, it would be better added to fuel, although with Grabbing gordon we would soon be back to paying both annually and on fuel!
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And, of course, it's the less well-off amongst us who have to opt for the 6 rather than 12 months tax.
HF
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You are right about Grabby Gordon! However, if he could be controlled, the following reasons are fair for taxing fuel instead of having a windscreen sticker.
1. Impossible to avoid paying.
2. Long distance drivers of big fast cars would pay more.
3. Tourists would pay.
4. Foreign lorries would pay, I think they soon will anyway.
4. Other ideas from readers of the Back Room!
Downside
1. Might lead to some redundancies at DVLA but they would still have to maintain ownership records and issue V5s and driving licences so I think their jobs would be safe.
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We already pay tax in relation to our motoring habits (vehicle type and useage) through fuel duty.
The tax disc system has the advantages of helping to keep ownership records correct and also going some way to making sure that cars are MOT'd and insured.
For those reasons I don't believe that the Government would ever consider getting rid of the tax disc as those checks would be lost, and that's probably something we should support. Even historic vehicles with a zero rate of duty still have to get an annual tax disc, and produce the relevant paperwork.
Regards
John S
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"The tax disc system has the advantages of helping to keep ownership records correct and also going some way to making sure that cars are MOT'd and insured. "
Strange that our lords and masters refuse to implement the system wherby an insurance certiciate is displayed to show you are insured.
Not really starnge I suppose when you consider the number of untaxed vehicles on the roads.. what we need is more implementation of current laws not new ones...
madf
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"what we need is more implementation of current laws not new ones...
"
Which reminds me that it is several months since DVLA have had a VED checkpoint at their favourite place on my way to work.
It used to be there every couple of months.
What it need is numberplate recognition equipment at one end of a road and the police/DVLA guys stopping the untaxed/unrecognised ones at the other.
Judging from the number of drivers who don't seem to care if they get photo'd by a camera (speed or bus lane) there must be a lot of dodgy numberplates on the road in London!
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Scrapping VED and increasing tax on fuel is one of these ideas that seem logical until you look into the effect it would have. These high milage drivers that people seem to think should subsidise their own tax bills are not swanning up and down the motorways all day because they enjoy it. They are business users, whose journeys are essential. Increase their tax burden and two things will happen. Some of them will go bankrupt because one more tax increase will be the last straw, and the rest will increase their prices to recover the extra cost, so everyone will end up paying anyway. This includes pensioners, pedestrians, low milage drivers and everyone else.
And of course, HMG will still charge a fee for registering vehicles, which could and would be raised whenever they thought they could get away with it.
Leave well alone.
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Hi Tom,
I understand your points. However, IF it is true that Road Tax is meant to maintain roads and related expenses, why should low-mileage drivers be subsidising those who use the roads so much more than they do?
If the Road Tax is for some other purpose, then I can sympathise more with what you're saying.
HF
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Road Tax does not exist. We pay Vehicle Excise Duty for the privilige of keeping a car on the public highway, it has nothing to do with maintaining the roads.
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Tom, sorry, wrong terminology.
At the same time, is it not fairer for those who use the public highways for say 10 hours per day to pay more in VED than those who might only use their car for maybe 10 hours per week, or less? (figures plucked from the air)
I still don't see why it wouldn't be fairer for this tax to be added onto fuel so that those who use roads most pay more. Isn't that the case with most services?
HF
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At 75% tax on a gallon of fuel, those who use the roads most already pay the most. Add VED to that expense and it won't cost me a penny, I will put my prices up to cover as will every other business user. Plus a little bit of rounding up, of course, just like when we went decimal.
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I understand that, Tom, and I can see why the arguments differ between a high mileage road user and a low one. Of course those who use the roads more have to buy more fuel and therefore pay more tax that way too!
I just (and I'm not trying to have an argument here, just want to state my case) don't see why the VED for 'privilege to stay on the roads' is not worked out in some way pro-rata, and since this is probably impossible, to me personally it would be fairer for this to be included in fuel price.
But, I'm sure most people here would not agree with that, and I accept your valid reasons why yours is a different case to mine :)
HF
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Did I just hear an admission of rounding up?? I did wonder who it was.
Perhaps those who need to travel long distances in the course of their business could be rembursed in a similar way that I believe Bus companies are rebated on their fuel. As to goods being more expensive well, we have a choice not to buy.
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All businesses charge what the market will bear. If all put prices up together all win as you have no choice but to pay. But the rest of the world has a choice, and if tax is restructured in a way that hits domestic businesses, those who export are in the mire and it will be no use hand-wringing when yet another firm ups and shifts it's operation to the far east or ceases trading altogether.
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At 75% tax on a gallon of fuel, those who use the roads most already pay the most. Add VED to that expense and it won't cost me a penny, I will put my prices up to cover as will every other business user. Plus a little bit of rounding up, of course, just like when we went decimal.
I still don't see a problem with that. So I pay slightly more for driving lessons and supermarket food and postage/delivery costs etc instead of paying VED. That way I'm paying directly for the cost of these things instead of some highly disputable (as demonstrated by this thread and others like it) fixed cost that doesn't directly relate to anything. I don't expect to save any money but I will get a clearer understanding of where my money is going.
As for rounding up, you can do that as much as the market will let you get away with.
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Unfortunately, Tom it won't be left well alone.
We are being threatened with road pricing, probably from 2011, at at least 10p per mile which is the equivalent to more than doubling the cost of fuel.
Doubling fuel prices would be political suicide. 10p per mile they could get away with as Joe Public would not make the connection.
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Road pricing is likely to lead to
1. long queues to pay
2. even longer queues as motorists seek alternative routes.
3. I suspect a rebellion by the road transport industry
4. A boost to inflation - transport will cost more.
Basically the problem is the government subsidises rail and plane travel. Where does the money come from? The tax payer.. and who pays loadsatax? The motorist both private and commercial.
We won't discuss where the government spends (sorry wastes) the rest of our taxes as thatisapoliticaldiscussion.. Mark:-)
madf
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Oh, and then there's the Lorry Road User Charge.
Below is an extract from the BBC News website:
"Meanwhile the planned Lorry Road User charge is progressing - the intention is to make all lorries pay for use of roads in terms of distance travelled rather than simply charge only UK-registered lorries for their tax disc."
This will add to haulage costs and drive up prices.
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VED is charged in the simplest way possible due to the fact that they roads are there 24 hours a day 7 days a week for those who wish to use them. Consider it the standing charge for this utility.
We are only seeing some of the household utilities removing their standing charges for being connected but until everything else becomes totally pay as you go / use then VED is here to stay.
As for the arguement about the Lorry charges and freight charges going up if others are charged for using our roads , at least this way it gives our HGV / Freight companies a more level playing field with the foreign companies or those fly a flag of convenience to save money. We must try and keep these jobs British.
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VED used to be called "Road Fund Licence". I wonder (not) why the name was changed.
All this talk of needing to keep tabs on cars, hence the need for a disc even on exempt vehicles, seems irrelevant when you see other countries getting by without any VED, the French, for example. How do they manage?
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until everything else becomes totally pay as you go / use then VED is here to stay.
Why particularly must VED be the last thing ever to change to pay as you go?
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