l have recently bought a peugeot 405 2ltr petrol, l've had to top-up the oil roughly every 3 weeks, each time the oil level drops half way between the high and low marks on the dipstick (about 3/4 of a litre), the car runs fine does not smoke and there appears to be no external leaks, is this oil consumption normal for this model?
Duggie
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How many miles do you travel in your 3 weeks, Diggie - and what sort of motoring is it?
Ian Cook
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Sorry, I meant to type "Duggie" - blasted fingers!
;-)
Ian Cook
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Hi Ian, the car is used daily on short journeys by my wife, drop the kids off to school and then off to work routine, in total maybe 150-200 miles per aweek.
Duggie
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Are we talking about a new car? If there are no external leaks and no smoke, where the h**l is the oil going?
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600 miles to a pint is quite high for a modern engine, Duggie. Although yours is a 405 (petrol) I believe, it should not use this amount in normal circumstances - but it might if the mileage is high.
A probable culprit is worn valve guides/seals. Pistons and rings really last quite well, these days. One way to check out whether it's valve guides is to get the car warm and then descend a hill on a trailing throttle. Then, put your foot on the throttle and simultaneously look in the rear view mirror - careful, now, or have someone follow you. If there's a reasonable puff of smoke as engine power is applied, and the smoke stops fairly, quickly then that's a reasonable indicator.
If it's bores/rings then I'd expect the engine to smoke all the time it is under load, especially when the revvs rise. Although 600 miles per pint is quite high, you may not notice much in the way of smoke, from the driver's seat - that's why you may need to get someone to follow you. I've had the pleasure of running old British Leyland cars that mostly did about 300 mpp, and they didn't smoke that visibly.
HTH
Ian Cook
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My 405 (diesel) rarely needs topping up between services.
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Hi Brian, l also have a 405 diesel which needs no topping up, thats why l was surprised how much the petrol 405 needed.
Duggie
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Duggie,
This level of consumption is a bit high, and could indicate some wear to the piston rings, cylinder bores, and / or valve guides. However, it is worth checking the crankcase breather system is clear, as high crankcase pressure can force oil up past the rings. In particular, make sure the smaller of the two hoses from the oil filler cap has vacuum - the vacuum port into the inlet manifold is often blocked - clear it with a long 1/16 inch drill and carb cleaner.
Also, some cars do use more oil when filled to max on the dip-stick. Keep an eye on it of course, but you might find it stabalizes at somewhere between half-way and minimum.
HTH, Adam
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Seem to remember HJ covering this some time ago. Something about using ordinary oil to run in to bed in rings then later expensive synthetic oil.
My 12 year old LDV 2l direct injection diesel runs 2000 miles between top-ups. Now at 85,000 miles.
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Some engines use more than others.
Manufacturers tolerances are very woolly regarding this subject as they seem to accept anything between no consumption and
1 litre per 6000 miles.
It does sound high though: What sort of mileage are we talking here? The car overall I mean, not the journeys.
You could try a synthetic oil, which may improve it, although if it's thinner oil, and the rings are worn, it may create more consumption.
Any ideas anyone?
Cheers - Jon S
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Puggott managed in the late 1980s early 1990s to set the oil mark on some dipsticks too high. SWMBO's Puggot 106 drinks oil if filled to max, but if filled to half way between high and low marks on dipstick, uses none at all.
Same symptons as yours: no obvious leaks, no oil fumes/blue smoke.. but when filled to top, oil is flung out of crankcase breather into air intake..
A synthetic oil will probably make things worse if of a lower viscosity.. Catsrol Magnatec or similar is cheaper and for non turbo engines is OK.
Is yours a turbo? It may be the turbo bearings are worn allowing oil to leak into the exhaust..
madf
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When i used to buy these in the mid '90s they were always oil burners,to stop it you had to replace the valve stem oil seals which is a head off job.Now for me the curious thing was that the equivilant Citroen with the same engine never seemed to burn oil in the same way.These were always fleet cars with between 40 and 90 thousand miles.Also from memory the Peugeot handbook used to say a litre of oil per 1000km was acceptable.
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On engines I've worked on, the only reaon for removing the head to do the stem seals is so you can hold the valve in place whilst compressing the spring. I used to have a tool which compressed the spring with the head still in place - I held the valves in place by blowing up a balloon inside the cylinder through the plug hole (use large size high quality balloons or you'll be removing the head to retrieve bits of burst balloon).
Honest.....
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Or feed thin rope in thro' the spark-plug hole and then wind piston upto TDC.
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Hi madf, what l've decided to do is a complete oil change and put the specified amount of oil in, then see where this registers on the dipstick, hopefully this will show if the markings on the stick are accurate to the specified amount.
Duggie.
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I've seen an awful lot of petrol 405s trailing a thin haze of blue smoke - too many to be a coincidence. Get someone to follow you as you drive along, and see if there is any smoke then.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Duggie
I apologise if I'm teaching my grandmother ..
but you will recall the filter holds about 0.3 litres so check the level after the engine has been run first.
.. to crack eggs
madf
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If you can't see any hazy smoke behind you, clean the car and then take it for a long(ish) run in dry weather. Then wipe your finger over the back of the bootlid and see if it feels greasy. It may be vapourising the oil too slowly for visible smoke to be made, but this is where the oil ends up.
I found this out by cleaning the back window of my Allegro and ending up with a black-fronted t-shirt...
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I think it comes down to individual vehicles, not manufacturers, presumably because of standard of maintenance and perhaps original manuf. tolerances. I have not owned a Peugeot (12 205s, 3 306s and a 206) with poor oil loss other than via the rocker cover. Oil level in present vehicle (1999T HDi, using semi-synth) has dropped 1mm from the top mark in 5000 miles, mostly long runs; so it doesn't look as if the 'too high top mark' theory holds for my car.
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Today l removed the breather pipe that connects from the air filter casing down to the bottom of the engine, the pipe was clogged with a thick milky sludge, l cleaned the pipe and refitted, would this have caused the problem of high oil consumption?? also checked the valve clearances, they need adjusting, they have shims fitted which means removing the camshaft and replacing with appropriate size shims, has anyone carried out this procedure? if so how difficult?
Any advice most welcome.
Duggie
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Duggie,
Not done this job on a peugeot, but a bit of general advice is that it isn't too difficult. The art lies in making sure that you mark up the timing belt / chain and all the sprockets that it runs round. i.e Look for the timing marks on the crankshaft sprocket and line them up at top dead centre. You should be able to tell if the engine is at TDC by looking to see if the cam followers are open or shut on number one piston. Then make marks that line up the belt / chain to each sprocket. Take the belt / chain off, take the cam off, and do the work on the shims. When putting the cam back on I always turn the crankshaft by a quarter of a turn to make sure the valves don't hit the pistons when putting the cam back on. Then turn it back to TDC, line up the belt and sprockets marks made earlier and tension everything up. (It may be worthwhile replacing the belt and tensioners at this time if they will come off easily
Haynes manuals will give all the above info in a lot more detail, and are a worthwhile purchase.
Hope this helps
Nick
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