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Mon 19 Jul 2010 18:07

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

I have recently purchased a category B total loss vehicle. The vehicle was flood damaged in 2006, and the interior required replacing at a cost of £12000. This information was gained from the insurers who paid out on the vehicle. It`s a BMW Z3.

After reading through forums, and doing an HPI check, I discovered that the vehicle had been listed as sc***ped, a category B. I was warned that I should not purchase this vehicle by the HPI check.

Not being one to take no for an answer, and having examined the vehicle and found there to be no structural damage, and the car is driving with all safety and operational systems intact, I checked with the DVA, which told me the car has a VIC marker. So, I phoned the DVA this morning, and asked was there ANY reason why a category B car with a VIC certificate, and a current MOT will not be allowed back on the road.

The answer was NO!. If a category B car has a VIC certificate, ( meaning that it is the vehicle it is purporting to be ), and has a current MOT, then there is NO reason why that car cannot go back on the road!!

Let me make this as clear as possible, `cos i`m over the moon actually, If a category B car has a VIC certificate to confirm it’s identity and an MOT certificate to confirm it’ roadworthiness, then that car is allowed to be taxed and returned to the road!

The insurance companies classifications are an industry wide guidance. They are not points of law! The DVA, or DVLNI state quite clearly that Category A, B, or C cars MUST obtain a V.I.C certificate before being returned to road use. Why the insurance companies want us to believe that a category B cannot be returned to road use is anyones guess!!

I really HTH!!!

Please don't shout (CAPS) Boris (Mod)

Edited by BorisTheSpider on 19/07/2010 at 19:03

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Mon 19 Jul 2010 18:50

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - LucyBC

The reason they sc*** them with such a warning is because of potential future critical parts failure which may not be picked up by the standard checks done as part of the MoT. The failures may not just be electrical. There is a possible failure of key parts which can result in a mechanical failure without warning - possibly leading to a serious accident.

It doesn't mean your vehicle is inherantly dangerous but there is a risk of it being so.

An insurer will almost always go Category A or B write off with a car which has been flooded with salt water or there is sewage. In fresh water they will usually go Category C write off if the flooding is below the dashboard. They will usually go Cat B if it is above.

Any car listed Category B will always show as such in a vehicle data check and hence may be difficult to sell.

Not surprising really as the formal definition of a Category B write off is: A vehicle that has been written-off but where it's parts may be re-used. However, the body shell cannot be re-used and must be destroyed. Notification of Destruction required. (Parts can be removed and sold). Recorded at DVLA & HPI.

Most insurers and breakers selling such a vehicle will require evidence that the body be crushed or guillotined to stay legal with the "notification of destruction" rider.

You can appeal the Category and classification but you will probably need expert help from someone like my colleague Peter Mann who specialises in accident investigation work and loss adjusting.

Come back to me at asklucy@honestjohn.co.uk if I can help with this because I wouldn't rely on a VIC and a MOT of you plan to sell it.

Edited by LucyBC on 19/07/2010 at 18:52

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Wed 21 Jul 2010 03:58

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

Thank you for your reply!

just a few points i`d like to put to you.

All vehicles are inherantly dangerous, just look at the debacle over the Toyota Prius.

There is no water damage to the car at present. I have inspected the car, and although i`m not a mechanic, I have served some time at the trade, and at body repairs. I know my suck from my squeeze, and my bang from my blow!!

The interior has been replaced in this car, suggesting that the water ingress was low. The seats and carpet were replaced. I saw photos of the cockpit with the seats and carpet removed. The foam sound proofing was intact., still attached to the car, and in it`s normal state.

If the car was submerged in water, then surely the parts that a category B allows to be salvaged, would be useless, therefore the car should be a cat A.

It is not my intention to sell the car, and therefore resale value is of no importance.

Once again, thanks

Oh by the way, the current owner recently replaced the sills, due to rust. I have examined the car, and it has corrosion commensurate with a nine year old car.

Edited by philip43 on 21/07/2010 at 04:08

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Wed 21 Jul 2010 08:03

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - LucyBC

I think the main issue would be at resale and when you attempt to insure the vehicle.

Insurers are notorious for operating to very rigid rules and the chances are the loss adjuster was complying with them. Unfortunately when you get a quote you will also have to declare it and you will probably have a great deal of difficulty getting cover.

My suggestion is you appeal the category. We have people who can look at this for you and I will get them to contact you so they can advise better.

Others will advise you on what the main mechanical risks are but the obvious ones are electrical. If you can show the car to be roadworthy (for your own satisfaction and safety) then I really hope you get it back on the road.

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Thu 22 Jul 2010 20:09

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

Hi LucyBC!

Just thought I would update on the current position. I received a VIC application form in the post this morning. It is my understanding that only vehicles with a VIC marker at DVA are submitted for a VIC. Therefore, if the DVA had been informed that this car was sc***ped, no application form would have been made available to me.

I would like to know the process for appealing the category, as that is my intention when the car is roadworthy, ie:- VIC passed and MOT passed.

I would also be obliged if anyone can suggest areas of concern that I may have with this car, considering the reason for it`s categorisation.

If the car does need any parts, then I have a very friendly and understanding BMW breaker I can rely on!!

There are only two things I never give, thats` up, and in!

Thank you.

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Sat 24 Jul 2010 09:45

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - Simon

It wouldn't surprise me if more questions were asked about how this supposedly sc***ped vehicle has made it back to life. The only other thing to consider is how easily you will find someone that will insure you on a category B write-off.

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Sat 24 Jul 2010 14:23

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

It wouldn't surprise me if more questions were asked about how this supposedly sc***ped vehicle has made it back to life. The only other thing to consider is how easily you will find someone that will insure you on a category B write-off.

Hi Simon, yes the enquiry stage is a concern, but if I get it back on the road, I think my legal department can look after that. As for insurance, I have obtained several quotes, and surprisingly, they are no different than a non categorised vehicle!

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Sat 24 Jul 2010 15:08

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - LucyBC

Hi Philip - good luck but I am more than amazed about the quotes as we get loads of letters from people who cannot get cover even for a Cat D - dumb as that might sound.

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Sat 24 Jul 2010 18:02

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - Simon

I am not knocking you philip43 but it does make you wonder what the point is in the insurers having this system of categorising write-offs and rules to go with them, if it is still then possible to put a vehicle that has deemed to be only fit for salvaging parts off, back on the road as a whole.

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Fri 6 Aug 2010 03:17

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

I am not knocking you philip43 but it does make you wonder what the point is in the insurers having this system of categorising write-offs and rules to go with them, if it is still then possible to put a vehicle that has deemed to be only fit for salvaging parts off, back on the road as a whole.

Hi Simon.

The categories that the insurers use is for their benefit. When they decide if a car is economicaly viable to return to road use, or not as the case may be, they then have to decide what value the car is to them, ie:- how much they will get from salvage dealers. If they know they will get only the sc*** metal value of the car, they will place it in category A. This means that the vehicle should be crushed. The way they see it is this, if they can`t make anything from it, they want to make sure no-one else does. As the amount of money the insurance company may make from the car increases, then the category changes, from A, to B and so on. It must be remembered that these categories are only guidelines, laid down by the ABI (association of British Insurers) and they look after the interests of their members, not those of the general public.

The organisation with the authority to decide what vehicles must be crushed are VOSA/ DVA, and the DVA say quite clearly that any category A, B, or C vehicle MUST have a VIC, vehicle identity check, before being returned to road use.

Another thing to remember is this. When a vehicle is "crushed", a COD (certificate of destruction) is issued, and the registration of that vehicle is lost forever. So, if you are looking to buy a vehicle that the HPI check tells you has been crushed, check the date it was crushed, and check to see if the registration was transferred after the date of crushing. If this is the case, then the vehicle probably hasn`t been crushed!

Also check with the DVA and see if it has a VIC marker. If it has,and the vehicle is worth it, then it can be returned to road use, subject to VIC, and MOT where applicable. Obviously the vehicle would have to be roadworthy.

The car I am returning to road use was flood damaged in 2006. It was a category B, meaning that parts could have been salvaged, and the body crushed. My point is this, if the parts of a flood damaged car can be used on other vehicles, then why can`t they be used on the original vehicle? If they can`t, then the car should have been a category A, but if they can, then the car should have been a category C, going by the ABI guidelines.

I hope this explains the situation, because I must admit, before I started this project, I was of the same opinion about this as most people. However, I now know different!!

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Fri 6 Aug 2010 03:30

BMW Z1 Roadster - Category B write offs - philip43

Hi Philip - good luck but I am more than amazed about the quotes as we get loads of letters from people who cannot get cover even for a Cat D - dumb as that might sound.

Hi LucyBC!

Yes, one or two companies would not quote me because it was a category B, and I later discovered that one of the companies was the company who paid out on the car originally!!

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