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After 33 years of driving I have grown pretty jaded regarding oil companies forcourt branding of fuels, like BPs claim to have the cleanest diesel, and Esso's 'put a tiger in your tank' etc etc. Th e fact is that all fuel stations in an area are supplied from the same point of distribution, the only thing that can possibly be different is the additive pack, especially in the case of diesel.
Usually this is done with alkyl nitrate additives I understand, so if shell wish to give us more of this I'm happy as long as the price is the same, but I suspect that any marketing activity has some sinister undertones which may mean this will not be the case !
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I remember motoring at the time of the Formula Shell debacle.
Several of us in the office were worrying whether we had used enough of alternative fuel brands to mitigate it`s effect. Ever since, I`ve just used the standard fuel - and have been using Jet derv recently.
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I suspect that some sort of placebo effect will occur. By using "fuelsave" the driver will then drive more efficiently almost subconsciously, thereby increasing mileage.
I'm not sure if placebo is the right word for that, its too early on a Sunday for me.
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I suspect that some sort of placebo effect will occur. By using "fuelsave" the driver will then drive more efficiently almost subconsciously, thereby increasing mileage.
I'm not sure if placebo is the right word for that, its too early on a Sunday for me.
I'm sure place-bo is exactly the right word.
From the FAQs -
"How will Shell Diesel with fuel economy formula affect my fuel economy?
Shell Diesel with fuel economy formula has been specifically designed to give you more miles at no extra cost. Fuel economy, of course, depends on a number of factors, including fuel quality, the type and condition of your vehicle and the way you drive it. We don’t believe that quoting a particular level of improvement means much until you try it and see for yourself, at no extra cost."
Cynical? Moi?
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Its been available in Germany for a while I thought it was some sought of special(dear)fuel until I checked the price per litre .
I have been using it for a few weeks now and noticed absolutely no difference they promise more km per litre just another marketing ploy as far as am concerned.
I have seen the price go from 120cents a litre to 129 and now its down to 121 the cheapest I have seen it is 119.9 it always goes up at the start of the school holidays and then comes back down.
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Well Oilrag, like I say, I used FS petrol in the 80s, and I definitely recall after a tune/service the mechanic at the garage asking if I had interfered with something like the tappets/lifters or plug gaps after the car started to kangaroo/jolt, I remember saying to him "Nope I've not touched it, all I've done is put FS in the car, can't be that can it?" He really laughed at that, "Tut, course not!" as he rolled his eyes at me and shook his head, after all what could I as a spotty 18 year old possibly know, :o))
Edited by Lee1 on 12/07/2010 at 20:40
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Well, it cured me of experimenting with petrol, Lee ;-)
Can anyone remember Cleveland Discol? (was it?) that had alcohol added? I can remember an ex WW2 mechanic shaking his head at that and saying it would have less energy as a result.
That would be in the late 60`s - but before that as a kid in an Aunt`s (not Auntie Nellie;-) car - the different smell of Super Shell with ICI - as opposed to the plebeian, Shell Mex.
we used to stick our heads out of the window passing the chemical works in Knottingley too - in the genuine belief that the acrid, glue like fumes were good for you.
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>we used to stick our heads out of the window passing the chemical works in Knottingley too - in the genuine belief that the acrid, glue like fumes were good for you.<
I tried that when driving past the Pfizer Viagra plant near Cork.
Hasn't worked yet...
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Oilrag, "Shell Mex", that rings an old bell! Oh no I feel really old now, older than I am! 2 star petrol and free squirts of Redex,1970s petrol stations that have run out, my dad hand cranking his old Singer Vogue (old Roots Group) ... yikes, not long to me bus pass !
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Im currently running a very unscientific test as to whether Shell V power gives better economy over their normal unleaded.
My car, an 09 1.4 Kia gives a usual mpg of around 41-42 over a tank full of commuting and general running around and this has been consistent for the life of the car once run in of course.
Im on my second tank of V power and have been getting around 44mpg with the same sort of use. Im going to put 4 tanks of V power through to totally purge the system of and old fuel. Its only going to cost me an extra £10 over the course of the experiment so its not a deal breaker.
As it stands at the mo the fuel is 5p a litre more which is around 4% more expensive and im getting approx 2% better fuel economy. Of course the extra 2% could be just down to driving style on the day which is why im going to run several tanks through to get some consistency.
Not a very conclusive experiment i know but there was a discussion at work as to whether super unleaded was better for normal cars as opposed to high performance cars. It was suggested that with all the electronics on modern cars, even the low end types they will compensate for the better anti knock properties of S/ UL and give better economy if not performance. If im wrong its only cost me and extra £10 in fuel and i revert back to U/L.
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With regards to V Power Fuel, Shell have never claimed that you get more miles to the gallon from that fuel, the claims have always been around performance as in better response kinda quicker cars. It just so happens that because of the way you don't need as much power to do the same thing, you do use less fuel. Long term wear and tear should benefit from the better fuel too so it's not just down to MPG with V Power. I've used it for some time, the stuff is like rocket fuel!
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Looks like the fuel technology gap has changed. Note the usage of terminology which appear to imply similarities :
(1) Shell FuelSave Unleaded - Shell Efficiency Improver (95 RON)
(2) Shell V-Power - Friction Modification Technology (99 RON)
Shell FuelSave Unleaded, you could start to benefit from the new fuel economy formula. That’s because it’s enriched with Shell Efficiency Improver, designed to improve fuel economy from the very first drop. It lubricates where your normal engine oils can't easily reach, which helps the engine turn more freely and allows more energy to drive the wheels. This helps you get more out of every drop of Shell FuelSave Unleaded and saves you up to 1 litre per tank* at no extra cost.
Shell V-Power is formulated with Friction Modification Technology (FMT) designed to help reduce friction between the cylinder and piston rings, a critical area of the engine where lubrication is difficult to achieve. In this way FMT is designed to help the engine turn more freely, and so support more effective energy transfer from the fuel to the wheels.
I wonder, could this mean that V-Power now only has the advantage of 99 RON status verses 95 RON for FuelSave Unleaded ?
I tried a Focus 1.8 TDCi (no DPF) today that was filled with Shell FuelSave Diesel, the previous tank had V-Power diesel. I found the engine was quieter, smoother and pulled well, haven't done a proper mileage test yet. The smoothness was superior to the basic Shell diesel that Shell FuelSave Diesel has replaced and the exhaust fumes smell were noticably less.
Question is, what position in the market does that leave V-Power diesel ?
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A curious statement from Shell there. "It lubricates where your normal engine oils can't easily reach" So where does the fuel go that oil doesnt? Fuel injection system/carbs and the valves springs to mind. And maybe the piston crown and bores if your rings are working correctly.
So they have found something that lubricates the valves efficiently? Isnt that what lead in petrol did well for years!!!!!!! I know full well why lead was removed from fuels but it sounds just like a load of marketing hype to me.
I understand the benefits of a higher octane rating, i use 99RON in my bike as its been tuned with higher compression and advanced ignition. Without 99 RON the engine would eat itself in short order but this sounds like a relaunch of their normal fuel under a new name to me.
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It's not a relauch of their normal fuel, it's a new additive package applied to 95 RON unleaded and normal diesel.
In the new fuels the way the combustion process burn occurs has been better managed by the addition of an additive that smooths out the ignition burn which in turn allows a more complete burn of the fuel within any given cylinder which in turn results in less fuel being used. In addition the managed combustion process results in a smoother & quieter engine.
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So is it be sold alongside normal U/L or instead of?
I cant see how they will have room for another product at the pumps. My local Shell had a big refurb a couple of years ago with new underground tanks etc and the only do V power diesil at one pair of pumps out of 4. With all the others having Super U/L instead.
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Shell FuelSave Unleaded (95 RON) replaces Shell Unleaded 95 RON and Shell FuelSave Diesel replaces Shell diesel. V-Power Unleaded and V-Power Diesel remain the same.
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So its just a rehash/ relaunch of their normal run of the mill fuel then!
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morning...
My local shell has 15ft high flags outside and posters all over the place hahaha.....
when you fill up they also give you a car air freshener......
no it doesn't smell of petrol.........
blurb says "saves up to 1 litre of fuel per 50 litres..." my tank (aka volvo) holds 60 litres...wait and see...
paul....
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>> So its just a rehash/ relaunch of their normal run of the mill fuel then!
No, the FuelSave 95 RON unleaded and FuelSave diesel fuels contain a new formula additive package, in effect they are new fuels. Shell FuelSave fuels have never been sold before.
Fuels packages are changed from time to time as demand for cleaner emissions and improved fuel ecomomy is demanded. New modern engines have to comply with vehicle legislation emissions and upgrades to fuel formulas are an aid to compliance.
Often vehicle manufacturers work in partnerships with fuel companies to share their requirements, this in turn is reflected by changes in engine specifications and fuel specifications.
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No disrespect Mike Torque but the way you are pushing this makes me wonder if you are in fact a Shell employee? You have quoted chapter and verse from the Shell website and their PR blurb for this new fuel and what i read from you is like reading Shell advert!!!!!
To quote from Shells own sales blurb "save upto 1litre per tank"
Up to??????????? Thats very ambiguous dont you agree? I could probably save "upto" 1litre per tank by very slightly modifying my driving style, drive slower, accellerate less vigorously. You could save 50ml of fuel over a tankful and their "save upto 1 litre" would still be correct and i guess allowable for advertising.
Im not questioning the fact that theres a new additive package in this fuel but to all intents and purposes it is their standard U/L with a new name and with a rebranding to reflect the change. They still sell 2 types of petrol, standard 95 RON and a higher octane 99 RON. Regardless of what they call them, thats what it is, a normal and a higher octane fuel.
I did notice at my local garage today theres lots of flags and stuff for the launch of the new fuels. I wonder though just when they started deliveries of the new fuels? It will take a while for the underground tanks to be purged of old fuel so i guess they have actually been delivering this new fuel for a while?????
And if you think that i am anti Shell after all this the fact is quite the opposite. Shell is my local garage and my garage of choice. I have a Shell loyalty card and have made a point of using them for some years now. Im just not going to be taken in by corporate rebranding. Theres no such thing as a free lunch and they wont be giving me more product for the same price unless theres something in it for them. They are after all, in the business of making money first and foremost.
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Working this out in pounds shilling and pence ( youngsters out there thinking what are shillings!), 1 litre saved per 50, so 2 saved per hundred wich is a 2% fuel save. Based on the current price of fuel that equates to around 2.3 pence per litre saving. If you have a shell points card which gives you vouchers off fuel of halve a pence for every litre you buy then you could save nearly 3 pence per litre with this new fuel and points card. Judging by how many people drive a couple of miles to save 1 pence perlitre, shell could clean up with this. This would make them cheaper than most supermarkets and for a far superior product!
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Formula Shell was withdrawn because of adverse publicity over valves burning out. This occurred to me and I have been wary or cynical of Shells claims ever since. After keeping a low profile for some years Shell then came out with Optimax. Spool forward some years and we have this new petrol. It seems to me that each decade Shell decide to market a new petrol.Maybe they work, but history tells us they messed up big time in the second half of the eighties with Formula Shell. It is important to remember this because all the high profile marketing showed scientists in white coats examining Pyrex jars of fuel and exclaiming how thorough there testing had been- just like now. That time it was found to be a con and the petrol actually damaged engines
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Yes, and if I remember correctly motorists on the continent were compensated for said damage. They would't compensate UK motorists though.
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>> a Shell employee?
No I'm not.
I raised this topic as I wanted to bring it out in the open for debate and it's good to hear people views on their experiences. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried either of the FuelSave fuels and whether they have noticed any difference in engine smoothness and economy. I have only tried the FuelSave diesel so can't comment on the FuelSave unleaded so I would be interested to hear about it from anyone who has used it.
How long it will take for the tanks at the filling stations to reach around 95% to 100% FuelSave content depends on whether the tanks were allowed to empty prior to receiving FuelSave or were topped up.
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It would be interesting if someone ran a test on fuels for a few weeks - with someone else filling their carwith different brands. That person would keep a log and the car driver would write comments on perceived `quality` before handing the car over again for another secret refill.
That would rule out any `placebo` effect and would make an interesting study - especially if more than one person did it - with an agreed list of fuels.
Anyone up for it?
No good for me. A tank of fuel lasts a month.
edit
If there`s sufficient interest to get this off the ground, I will start a new thread with a `sticky` regarding agreed fuels and so on.
oilrag
Edited by oilrag (Moderator) on 29/07/2010 at 07:16
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I'm very observational when it comes to fuel consumption. Currently my 335d is doing 42mpg and i've got a 600 mile range which i'm just over half way through.
I will calculate when i run out then brim with fuel save, anticipating driving the same route at my usual pace, temperatures should be pretty similar too.
Then i'll compare
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I think to be `scientific` about it tho - the driver is best not knowing what fuel is in the tank..
Any thoughts on that?
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